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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: janjim on Friday 13 February 09 04:21 GMT (UK)
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I am searching for any records in regard to Robert Allan Kell, who lived at Blacktown, near Sydney.
He married Jessie Auld in 1910, in Sydney, so would appreciate if anyone could assist me to Sands Directory or other information.
I am still trying to find when he arrived in Australia, supposedly from Ireland, where he had another family that had died.
jan
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Jan
Here is one for Sands in Syndey , it is listed in the side index.Only found this today so have not explored it in full.
http://www.cityofsydney.nsw.gov.au/newtownproject/
Robyn in Wodonga Australia
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Hi Jan,
1930 NSW Electoral Roll (District Parramatta, Subdistrict Seven Hills)
Kell, Robert Allan, Sunnyholt, Blacktown, wharf-labourer
1936 NSW Electoral Roll (District Reid, Subdivision of Auburn North)
Kell, Edith May, 96 Beaconsfield Street, home duties
Kell, Fredrick Ronald, 96 Beaconsfield Street, lino worker
Kell, Robert Allan, 96 Beaconsfield Street, no occupation
Debbie
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1901 Western Australia
Robert Allan Kell Bay Road, North Freemantle machinist
Rose Kell same address home duties
Jenn
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Hi Tropicalj and Walcha 72
Thanks very much for your assistance
jan
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The 1901 electoral roll for North Fremantle, Western Australia shows the other person at the same address as Robert is Emily not Rose.
The only death for an Emily KELL is in 1925 in Perth, Reg No 320. She was 80 years of age at time of death and is buried at Karrakatta Cemetery, Perth
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/GenResearch.html
K.
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Thanks Tropicalj
I'm still working on the possibility that the W.A. address may have been his "other life" I know of one Kell family that lived in Brisbane, he then went to Perth, and dumped his four children,
divorced her and then moved to Sydney.
Wish I could find some shipping records, if we have the right Kell, I am working on the fact that he would have been born 1859 (supposedly Ireland) maybe that is not true at all.
There is some real dark secret over this family, I'm sure, the story goes that he lost all of his family in the potato famine, but that was well before 1859.
jan
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http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/searchform.aspx
There is a divorce for Robert Allan Kell and Emily Kell on the SRO site.
sorry about that I don't know how I wrote down Rose and not Emily.
Jenn
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The 1901 electoral roll for North Fremantle, Western Australia shows the other person at the same address as Robert is Emily not Rose.
The only death for an Emily KELL is in 1925 in Perth, Reg No 320.
K.
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/results.php
looks like her buried in Perth aged 80 so born around 1845.
Jenn
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Hi tropicalj
Are you able to tell me where in Australia the divorce took place, and in what year. I've tried to get on to the site, just briefly, with no success so far.
jan
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ummm,
don't think it is the same family.
Our Robert Allen Kell died in Sydney aged 78 years in 1937, so he would have been born 1859 approx
jan
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http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/archives/divorce_1638.asp
sorry try this link in New South Wales
it would appear there were two Emily Kell listed in the 1901 electoral roll in Western Australia ther other one was a widow living with family members possibly her that died in 1925
Jenn
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Thanks again Jenn, it is still possible, the divorce in 1909 and remarried 1910
jan
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Hi Jan,
There are numerous shipping records for this man 1890 - 1893 aboard the Aramac arriving in Sydney. Was he a mariner? He certainly seems to be - he is travelling the east coast of Australia
From Cooktown 17 Feb 1890 Cooktown age 32 Origin Larm (Robert)
From Melbourne 30 Feb 1890 aged 32 Origin Larm (Robert)
From Melbourne 5 May 1890 aged 31 Origin Belfast (Robert A)
From North 25 May 1890 aged 31 Origin Belfast (Robert A)
From Cooktown 23 Jun 1890 aged 32 Origin London (Robert)
From Northern Ports 18 Feb 1892 age 33 aboard the Fitsroy Origin Lorne (Robert KEEL) note diff ship
From Melbourne 3 Mar 1893 aged 35 Origin Melbourne (Robert A)
From Melbourne 4 Apr 1893 aged 35 Origin Ireland (Robert Allan)
From Cooktown 24 Apr 1893 aged 35 Origin Ireland (Robert Allan)
From Cooktown 22 May 1893 aged 35 Origin Larne (Robert A)
From Cooktown 26 Jun 1893 aged 35 origin Larne (Robert A)
Cheers Kris :)
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hi kris,
this is fantastic, hope its him, the age definitely connects up, his occupation in Sydney was Wharf Labourer in 1930, a possible connection
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Just wondering where is Larm
jan
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He is listed an AB from Belfast :)
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1890/02/008ara.htm
I expect some are mistranscriptions of Larne, which is nearby Belfast, County Antrim in Northern Ireland
Good Luck............Kris :)
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This is so good, now to find him migrating to Australia
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Have you seen William Allan Kell's WW1 record on the NAA?
It lists his mother as Mrs Emily REAY, Bay Road North Freemantle.
by the WA on line index's
married details KELL EMILY Female REAY WILLIAM Male FREMANTLE reg no 73 in 1912
So Robert Allan Kell married in Qld had four children moved to WA for a time then left the family went to NSW where he divorced Emily and remarried Jessie.
Now you can obtain a copy of the divorce in NSW from the State Records office for about $45 or you can get a copy from a transcription agent for a bit less and usually a lot quicker.
The divorce should say where he was from etc. Sometimes they have a copy of a marriage certificate in them as well
Also one or two of the Rootchatters go into the records office on occasion and may get you a copy too.
Jenn
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Probably not needed but just to eliminate the other KELL family.
Marriage Qld.
1883/B8638
KELL Robert Allan
BURWOOD Emily
Births
1884/B33163 Kell Lillian Emma Robert Allan Emily Burwood
1887/B38718 Kell William Allan Robert Allan Eaily Burwood
1893/B52044 Kell Alfred Edward Robert Allan Emily Burwood
1895/B56128 Kell Bertram Thomas Robert Allan Emily Burwood
If Robert was working on a coastal trader then he was obviously home during some of that time. ;)
To eliminate the other KELL family on the WA electoral roll.
The KELL family in WA that included a widow Emily [husband Joseph] are in the Victorian Indexes having children at Richmond in the 1860's.
Marriage 1864
KELL Joseph
SHARP Emily Reg Number 1091.
They had 10 children.
Joseph died in 1901 and Emily in 1925 and they are both buried in the same grave at Karrakatta.
K.
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From
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch.aspx
For Bertram Thomas KELL b. 1895
[Australian War Memorial registry file:] Mrs E. Reay, North Fremantle, WA [Request for donation of private records of Lieutenant B.T. Kell]
Series number
AWM93 Control symbol
12/11/748 Contents date range
1927 - 1928
Access status
Open Location
Australian War Memorial
Barcode
956687
K.
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http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=160910
on that wonderful AIF site
his father is not mentioned just his step-father
kind thoughts Jenn
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Thank you for all of this, it has come as quite a surprise, this "potato famine family" was really in W.A.
Guess those stories went on and on.
jan
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The following file records "Father's whereabouts unknown" in 1915 on the enlistment papers.
KELL Bertram Thomas : Service Number - Lieutenant : Place of Birth - Brisbane QLD : Place of Enlistment - Perth WA : Next of Kin - (Mother) KEAKY Emily
Series number
B2455 Control symbol
KELL BERTRAM THOMAS Contents date range
1914 - 1920
Access status
Open Location
Canberra
Barcode
7367174
K.
Edit. Reading the file, in 1917 Robert Allan wrote requesting information. He was informed that he was not noted as NOK.
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And another son
KELL Alfred Edward : Service Number - 3867 : Place of Birth - Brisbane QLD : Place of Enlistment - Perth WA : Next of Kin - (Wife) KELL Dorothy Emily
Series number
B2455 Control symbol
KELL ALFRED EDWARD Contents date range
1914 - 1920
Access status
Open Location
Canberra
Barcode
7367176
K.
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Hi Jan,
I just thought I would let you know that the Family of Kell, of
Joseph (1841-1901) and his wife Emily(1845-1926) and who are buried at Karrakatta, Cemetery, and who had thirteen children all born in Richmond, Victoria. This Kell family that Joseph came from had its origins in Liverpool, England. His Parents were William Kell and Mary Ann nee Hanwix) They arrived into Port Phillip Victoria. I am related to this family through my great grandfather who was Emily's brother.
Haselbury
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See also this post re: Kell family in Ireland
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,360003.msg2371770.html#msg23717
Much of the information on Robert Allan Kell and family in Australia was already found.
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Hi Haselbury,
Thank you for this, this clears up definitely now that this side is not our family
Regards
Jan
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Hi Aghgadowey,
Appreciate your assistance, we've certainly ascertained our Kell family now, and so quite surprising with the end results.
jan
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Hi tropical j,
Thanks for your assistance, have now got the marriage certificate for Robert Allen Kell (Divorced Petitioner) and Jessie Agnes Auld in 1910, tells it all, he was 51 born in Larne Ireland and she 18. Can't find her birth, even though she was born supposedly in Lucknow NSW. I think this one will be a bit of a mystery as well.
We believe that Jessie died in Queensland, but it is correct that you cannot get deaths on-line any more recent than 1929 is that right?
Regards
jan
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That is true that the online only goes to 1929 for deaths but they are available on microfishe at the state archives in Qld and lot of libraries and family history groups do have them
Did the marriage certificate give her parents names?
Kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi Jenn,
Yes, parents were John Auld and Ada Bennett, but I'm holding my breath on this being the right information. I cannot find their marriage either.
jan
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Hi Jan,
Actually there has been changes in Queensland to accessing Certificates.
Certificate Access has been changed effective 1 march 2009
Historical provisions for death + marriage certificates have changed effective 1 March 2009
These are now:
Deaths: - Open Acess after 30 years
Marriages :- Open Access after 75 years
Certificate Acess Policy:
To confirm your eligibility: your identy and relationship to parties.
All available online at Queensland's Justice Department.
haselbury
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Thank you Haselbury for this information.
jan
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Hi,
Looks like Jessie may possibly have remarried after Robert's death.
Being so much younger, he was still in her 50's at this time.
16195/1946 MORT, SELWYN ROBERT to KELL, JESSIE AGNES@ WOOLLAHRA
Here is Selwyn's death....
13553/1965 MORT, SELWYN ROBERT father HENRY WALLACE mother KATE MACKINTOSH RAYMOND TERRACE
Sue
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Here is her interment at Mt Gravatt Brisbane
Mort Jessie Auld 04 / 11 / 1969 aged 76 years
Mon. 2E . sect 3. gve. 213
Sue
ADDING
I feel slightly disconcerted that the Agnes is missing from this name ???
But the Auld ???????
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Sue,
Thank you so much for all of this information, what an interesting life this family had, and so much secrecy.
Regards
Jan
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Hi Again,
I should also add for what it is worth that there was a couple in QLD named John and Ada Auld.
I have traced them through electoral roll and they first show in 1922 and continue, living in Brisbane, up to my last available in 1949.
However, locating their probable burial at Toowong, I see by their ages at death that they are not likely to be your Jessie's parents.
Ada was born about 1893 and John about 1878.
Worth knowing for elimination if nothing else.
Sue
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JanJim
Do you know if Robert and Jessie had children together she was certainley young enough ;) ;) and he wasn't that old.
Sue.
well found on her remarriage and death
Jenn
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I can answer my own question with looking at the NSW on line deaths two males at least
Robert J in1912
Frederick Ronald in 1977
Jenn
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Yes, I was just going to say that, yes we have Frederick Ronald Kell b. 31.10.1913 and Cyril Lancelot Kell b. 1916??. Frederick Ronald Kell died 1977 Gosford NSW
jan
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Hi Jenn again,
Didn't know about the Ronald J. b. 1912. We do know that Jessie Agnes Auld had a daughter named Nell, before she married Robert Allen Kell, have yet to find that one.
Sparrett, I don't think these people John & Ada Auld are connected, but you would never know.
Jessie was so young when she married, if her parents were very young, anything is possible.
I've just been told by someone, that they believed that Jessie Mort (nee Kell) actually could have died at Bundaberg, but we definitely know now that she was buried at Mt. Gravatt anyway. Its all coming together now. Only thing is I've never found Jessie's birth in Lucknow NSW, maybe she was born in Queensland.
jan
jan
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Robert J died in 1912
Jenn
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Worth considering this marriage?
5453/1941 CRAMPTON, HARRY WILLIAMS to KELL, NELLIE MAY @ TUMUT
??
Sue
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Are any of Jessie's marriage witnesses family?
And are her birthplace and parents details consistant?
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Hi sue and kiwicol,
Thanks for this, it's been a while since I've been researching the family, will get back to you as soon as I dig out the paperwork.
janjim
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Hi,
Thank you, the marriage suggested by you, is not the same person, we believe that daughter Nell married Adolph Weber, and we have now found this information.
Still checking on marriage certificate.
Regards
Jan
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Hi again,
We are at present trying to find the name of Nell's Father, her Mother Jessie was only about 17 years of age when Nell was born. Jessie then married Robert Allen Kell in 1910 at Sydney when she was 18 years of age. Whether Kell was the Father or not, we have not been able to determine.
Finding the marriage details on the BDM index NSW, shows Jessie's daughter as being Margaret E P Kell, married to Adolph Weber, and we know this is the correct person she married.
janjim
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I've read this series of posts with great interest. I remember Nell (daughter of Jessie Auld) from my childhood - as Aunty Nell. I didn't know how she was my "Aunty" but obviously I now know she was my grandpa's twin brother's wife. And I have photos of Jessie at my grandmother's wedding and mother's christening (I think). She was a Mort by then. And I have many half memories of strange stories told about Jessie.
But none of them can shed any light on the Kell mysteries in these posts I'm afraid.
Kath
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Kath,
Wow, this is interesting, I need to go back into family research on this family once again.
Have been helping my friend with this subject.
Was wondering if you would were prepared to share these photos with us at all. I can send you
a PM to enable this.
Cheers
Jan
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Absolutely, Jan. I'll dig them up and send them through.
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Kath,
Hope you received my PM's, wondering if you could please send copies of these couple of
photos through to us please. My Kell family friends are really keen to see these photos of his
Grandmother Jessie.
Jan
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Hi Ozkat,
I'm a little concerned that I've received no further reply, after sending personal messages,
I may have to close this down, sorry.
Ozkat, can you please advise if you wish to continue further with this subject?
jan
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Kath hasn't been online since 22nd April so wouldn't have seen the last posts and any PMs you sent since that date.
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Aghadowey,
Ohh thanks so much for that, I was just starting to get a bit worried, that is so good that you have let me know :)
jan
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Hi Aghadowey,
Wonder if you could check to see whether Kath has been on line since you last wrote to me.
It is quite interesting that she hasn't responded any further on the Kell family.
jan
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It's not a secret- just click on a member's username to see their profile page which shows when last signed in,
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3538
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Hi again,
Sorry, I should have known better, never thought of looking at their profile.
Jan