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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: sitrucat on Wednesday 11 February 09 19:42 GMT (UK)

Title: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Wednesday 11 February 09 19:42 GMT (UK)
I've been making good progress thanks to this forum and other sources (wills mainly) but have arrived at a dead end (no pun intended) so if anyone could help with what I hope isn't too much of a list I'd be very grateful.

Birth: Robert Louis Avery (Parents Louis Willyama and Alice Edith Laudaire) c:1922
Birth: Margaret Laudaire Avery (Parents Louis Willyama and Alice Edith Laudaire) c: 1910
Marriage: Margaret Laudaire Avery to unknown given names. Family name BULL c: 1930
Marriage: Louis Willyama Avery to Kathleen Jean ?? c:1968-70

Any Avery births - Father - Robert Louis Avery
Any Bull births Mother Margaret Laudaire Avery Bull

One other question I have a burial record for Cornelian Bay for Margaret Lavinia Josephine Avery in Dec 1895 and her place of residence is just given as HILL can anyone tell me where this is please?

Very many thanks
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Webby on Wednesday 11 February 09 21:10 GMT (UK)
Good morning
Sorry, can't help with the birth of Robert Louis Avery....the Federation Index for births goes only to 1919.  However, there is a newspaper notice of the birth of a Male Avery - born 27/11/1922  father L W Avery and inserted in the Mercury on 28/11/1922.  No name for the child is mentioned.

No birth regarding Margaret.
No marriage regarding Margaret (marriages only up to 1930 on Index) - there was no marriage notice in the newspaper (again index up until 1930).

Marriage of Louis & Kathleen....I have only the index's up until 1930.  To find this info out, you may have to join the Tasmanian list.  Also this time frame falls into the time frame of people still alive!.

Births for a Robert Avery as follows:

1.  Oscar Clyde Goldsmith Avery   born; 20/11/1903 St Helens (1903/3750)
2.  Keith Henry Avery  born; 21/6/1906 St Helens (1906/5378)
3.  Gwendolene Edith Avery  ;  born 30/12/1909 Scotsdale  (1910-5215).

Father:  Robert Avery
Mother:  Ellen Sara Goldsmith.

Nothing on the Bull births.

The Cornelian Bay info that I have shows MARY Lavinia Josephine Avery buried 28/12/1895 she was 10 months old and she was born in BROKEN HILL NSW. 

The funeral director's book  has that she died at the Cascade Training School in Macquarie St on the 27/12/1895.  There is a notation that there is a cause of death and more information  ref is 4/314.  This information is obtainable at the Tasmanian Family History Society  (for a fee - used to be $5.00?).

Regards

Webby

Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Wednesday 11 February 09 23:30 GMT (UK)
Webby

Thank you very much that's very helpful. (My mistake - I meant Mary Lavinia and not Margaret - my brain is addled with so many distant relative's names!)

Regards

Terry
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Wednesday 11 February 09 23:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Sitrucat,

Webby has as per usual done a fine job already, I may be able to fill in a few more gaps as I am a member of the Family History Society, this wont be until Saturday at the earliest as they only open on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays.

Tom
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: gennig on Thursday 12 February 09 03:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Sitrucat

According to the NAA website:-

Robert Louis was born Hindmarsh South Australia.  Enlisted WW2

His father Louis W lists his father as his NOK on his WW1 records.  He doesn't appear to have been married when he left the army in 1918.So, I don't think Margaret could have been born in 1910.

Regards



Genni
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 12 February 09 03:37 GMT (UK)
Louis Willyama   Avery died  18/01/1980  aged 88 buried at Centennial Prk South Australia
He would have been born 1892c but his birth is not showing in South Australia neither is a marriage  up to 1916.

Jenn
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Keengeni on Thursday 12 February 09 03:41 GMT (UK)
There is this birth in South Australia -   27 November 1927   Robert Louis AVERY with parents Louis Willyama AVERY and Alice Edith Laudaire JAFFREY at Adelaide.  Reference  District Code Ade  Book 107A  Page 196.

K.
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 12 February 09 03:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Sitrucat

AVERY
Robert Louis was born 27 Nov 1822 Ade Dist Ade 107A 196 Parents Louis Willyamma AVERY and Alice Edith Laudaire JAFFREY

AVERY Louis Willyama single 27 Father Louis Avery =  JAFFREY Alice Edith single 15 Father Henry JAFFREY St Michaels Church Mitcham Dist Ade 278/157 25 Jan 1919

no other births listed

Cheers Kris  :)

Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 12 February 09 03:55 GMT (UK)
birth in South Australia

JAFFREY Alice Edith Lauder born 14/8/1893 at Norwood Book527 page 403
Father Henry JAFFREY
Mother Edith Isabella Elizabeth Ann MACONOCHIE-WELWOOD


Jenn
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Keengeni on Thursday 12 February 09 03:58 GMT (UK)
The South Australian Genealogy and Heraldry Society in Adelaide hold the following newspaper announcements from the Advertiser newspaper

Newspaper Deaths, Funerals, Lest We Forget & Memorials
   
Louis  AVERY   Source date  A  1983
Louis Willyama AVERY  Source date  A 1980.

You can contact them - their website
http://www.saghs.org.au

K.
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Keengeni on Thursday 12 February 09 04:03 GMT (UK)
This came up on google and it is this website

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=60376d0db36cbc83e0b706705733c12d&topic=343953.0

and

http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=9631

K.
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Keengeni on Thursday 12 February 09 04:14 GMT (UK)
Is this the birth you are looking for

Margaret Laudane  AVERY
with parent Louis Willy Amer AVERY and Alice Edith Laudain JAFFREY [sic]
at St Kilda   1920  Registration No 7511


K.
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 12 February 09 04:54 GMT (UK)
Looks good K

Sorry not finding much more

The cremation details are listed on the Centennial Park Site for a Louis Willyama Avery and nearby I note a Kathleen Jean. They are in thr RSL Section. What I don't understand is their ages. Louis in 1980 aged 88, Kathleen Jean if that was his wife died 1990 aged 96  ???

http://www.centennialpark.org/burial_memorial_search/details/?id=145516

It is not possible to access marriages after 1937, or Births after 1928 in SA

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 12 February 09 05:06 GMT (UK)

This appears an earlier Louis Willyama Avery who fought in the 1st World War

His service records are available online from The National Archives

http://www.naa.gov.au/index.aspx

http://shop.awm.gov.au/honours/honours/person.asp?p=55c

Louis W Avery was born Broken Hill 1891 (8549) parents Louis H M and Mary

There is a marriage listed for Robert Louis Avery in Sydney in 1952

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/search.htm

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Keengeni on Thursday 12 February 09 05:15 GMT (UK)
Once again on the South Australian  Genealogy and Heraldry website

Government Gazettes database
Kathleen Jean AVERY  Source date  D1990   

Louis W b. 1891 as listed and and Kathleen Jean born c.1894 according to burial record.  Seems OK if they were husband and wife.

K.
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: krisesjoint on Thursday 12 February 09 05:23 GMT (UK)
He seems to have got around

Electoral Roll

1919
10 Deacon St
Balaclava St Kilda


AVERY Alice Edith Landaire Home Duties
AVERY Louis Henry Mayerres Secretary
AVERY Louis Willyama Engineer
AVERY Mary Mayerres Home Duties

1928
10 Mt Stuart Rd
Denison Hobart North


AVERY Alice Edith Laudaire Home Duties
AVERY Louis Willyama Engineer

1936
8 Torquay Ave
Denison New Town


AVERY Alice Edith Laudaire Home Duties
AVERY Louis Henry Mayerres Director
AVERY Louis Willyama Engineer

Cheers Kris  :)
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 12 February 09 05:24 GMT (UK)
I  think  you  will  find it is a second marriage for Louis Avery,

Quite a bit of  this information was on another earlier thread by sitrucat
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,343953.msg2225554.html#msg2225554
Jen
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Keengeni on Thursday 12 February 09 05:42 GMT (UK)
I think that must be the same link that I gave from google in an earlier posting.  Yes a lot of information there.

This is the birth reg Mary Lavinia  who died in 1895 in Tas.

Reg Number 1004   Year 1895
Mary L AVERY with father Louisa H M and mother Mary  at Broken Hill.   

K.
   


Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Thursday 12 February 09 09:19 GMT (UK)
To: Keengeni, Krisesjoint, TropicalJ, Tom from Oz, Webby & Gennig

Well I woke up this morning and found all of this information!  Thank you so much for all your help, I'm overwhelmed with this.  I need to put all of this into context now and re-check some of my dates and information.  I do have L W Avery's war records and a lot of information from the AIF project togther with a wonderful photo from the AWM Collection (thanks to TropicalJ for finding that in November.)

I'd like to try and find any living relatives in SA or Tasmania hence my pursuit of the R L Avery line. He died 20 Dec 2005 in Kingston - which I found from the Southern Cemetries records. So I feel I'm very close but I don't know if there was a will or even if it could be viewed as it's so recent.

Once again thank you.
 
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Thursday 12 February 09 17:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Sitrucat,

Webby has as per usual done a fine job already, I may be able to fill in a few more gaps as I am a member of the Family History Society, this wont be until Saturday at the earliest as they only open on Tuesdays, Wednesdays and Saturdays.

Tom

@Tom if you would be able to fill in any gaps I would be very grateful. I'm fascinated by the information that Webby sent regarding Mary Lavinia Avery and her death in the Cascade Training School at 10 months old. I've looked at the Cascades Female Factory Historic site but can only find reference to the Boys Reformatory so I'm puzzled and intrigued. Please let me know of any fees payable for further information and I can arrange payment.

Terry
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Saturday 14 February 09 06:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Sitrucat,

I visited the Family History Society today and created more questions than I answered.

Firstly, Webby reported a male birth on 27 Nov 1922 from a newspaper notice, by now you would have worked out this was in fact Robert Louis Avery.

Secondly Mary Lavinia Josephine Avery and the mention also from Webby on more detail as to cause of death. 

I located the Funeral Directors report which reports that Mary Lavinia Josephine Avery aged 10 months, born Broken Hill, was buried at Cornelian Bay Cemetery at 3 O'clock by Reverend Talbot with two coaches in attendance.

Now the questions, it also reports that a private grave was opened to bury Mary, so you have another rellie who died in Hobart and was buried in Cornelian Bay.  It also reports Mary was the child of an accountant.

I have tried so far in vain to identify the Cascade Training School, but I will!!!!!!!

There are a couple of schools of thought,  Cascade is in fact a suburb of Hobart which contains the local brewery, after which the beer is named  "Cascade Beer", was there a shortage of labour and staff were trained for work at the brewery?  and did Mary accompany her Father to work this particular day where he was an accountant?

A suggestion was made it was in fact a "Workhouse", but my query is why, if in fact the parent, presumably the father was an Accountant  the child ends up in the workhouse?  Although the Female Factory which was the name of the Female prison in Hobart had been closed for about 30 years in 1895 in continued to operate in some form until 1904 was it part of the female prison?

Keep watching I will find out, even if it is back to the State Archives next Saturday.

What I can tell you is that Mary was buried in the Scottish section D at Cornelian Bay which will give you a clue to her parents. The Doctor who attended her death was George Gibson, and she died of Marasmus (Malnutrition) and convulsions. I visited the cemetery in the hope there was a headstone unfortunately I could not locate one, a number of headstones were unreadable and a couple of graves had no stones.   I will pm you with a copy of the burial report
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 14 February 09 06:58 GMT (UK)
Hello  there Tom

I have been  following this thread  with interest and  note  how much  time and effort you  have put into  this,  goodonyamate  nice  to  see fellow rcers  doing their best for others

I  might just might be abel to help  with  this link to  the Cascade female fctory

http://www.femalefactory.com.au/

let me know if you  think  it is on  the right track or not

kind  thoughts Jenn


edit  by  JEnn  who  has reread the thread and sees that Sitrucate has looked at  this site before,  but  there are a lot of females listed on this site.
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Saturday 14 February 09 07:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenn,

Many thanks for the link.  I did in fact leave the FHS and drive to South Hobart in the hope somebody would be in attendance at the Female Convict Factory but they only open Monday to Friday and even then there would probably be no guarantee of a result.  I have checked the Database of female convicts no sign of Mary or her Mother Mary, in fact no Avery's at all, but the site does say that the list will not be complete until 2015 and they have concentrated on females transported to VDL.

But I am sure collectively we can sort the mystery out  ;D
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Saturday 14 February 09 09:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Tom and Jenn

Once again thanks for your help, Tom especially for your help and travelling around. I have PM'd you in respect of this  Mary Lavinia Avery's birth/death in 1895 in Hobart is very strange because at that time her father Louis Henry Mayerres Avery was an accountant at the Broken Hill Silverton Tramway Company (1899 - 1917) I have her birth certificate which confirms this and her dob was 24 February 1895. Her mother is Mary Mckee (Scottish) and the family were togther also with Mary Lavinia's brother - Louis Willyama Avery (b 1891) in 1919 at St Kilda Melbourne. So something presumably took her mother and her to Hobart in 1895.

Regards from a cold UK!
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: johngirl on Saturday 14 February 09 11:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Terry,

I have sent an email to Cornelian Bay Cemetery to see if they can give us the information of who is buried with Mary. Will let you know if I get a reply. :)
Can`t find anything on the Cascade Training School but will make some enquiries.

   Johngirl
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Saturday 14 February 09 12:07 GMT (UK)
Hi johngirl

Thank you very much - I'm very grateful for your help.

Terry
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Sunday 15 February 09 03:13 GMT (UK)
Hi all

As I mentioned on a previous post I had visited the FHS I failed to mention that Morris who is one of the staff there was not present.  What Morris doesn't know about Hobart and its history is not worth knowing.  Well I ran into him at the local supermarket and he has confirmed that The Cascade Training School was part of the Female Factory, so I will take a ride down there tomorrow and see what I can find.

Tom
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Webby on Sunday 15 February 09 06:18 GMT (UK)
Cornelian Bay Cemetery has listed 54 other people in the Free Scotland Section D, Number 0 - with Mary.   

All ages, male & female and dates of death from about 1883 to 1937.


Regards

Webby
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Sunday 15 February 09 09:48 GMT (UK)
Hi Webby

As previously mentioned I met Morris my source of info at the FHS and he told me he had a list of grave sites with numbers for Cornelian bay cemetery.  He can provide me with the occupants of adjoining graves and this will enable me to identify where Mary is buried even if there is no headstone. I should be able to access this info next saturday.

Tom
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Monday 16 February 09 10:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Terry,

I had a mixed day with Mary, I went to the female factory to find the web info was out of date and no research facility exists now at the site.  I had a chat to the lady in the information centre and was told the records were now kept at the State Archives so off I went.

From what I could ascertain, being 1895 it is highly unlikely that Mary was an inmate, she was more likely to have been admitted into the hospital.

Records were available for admissions into the hospital but I could not locate Mary, but this could have been due to the fact the record was film not a microfiche and being significantly smaller than microfiche the information even on the reader was so small and poor quality I could not read it. 

I have sent an Email to the convenor of the Female fatory site asking for her comments, although the charges for proper research run at $35 per hour, I dont think there will be too much to be gained from the record. hopefully she will give us the benefit of her opinion.

Tom
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Monday 16 February 09 12:57 GMT (UK)
Tom,

Once again many thanks for this, it will be intersting to see what the opinion of the convenor of the website is.  I agree it's probably not worth progressing. Hopefully the cemetry may reply to johngirl regarding who is buried with Mary. It's still a mystery as to why she ended up there from Broken Hill though at 10 months old - I'll keep digging!

Terry
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: johngirl on Monday 16 February 09 23:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Terry,

Still waiting for a reply from the Cornelian Bay Cemetery.
If no reply comes I will phone them and ask for the information.

   Johngirl
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Tuesday 17 February 09 08:32 GMT (UK)
Hi johngirl

Thank you very much

Terry
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Wednesday 18 February 09 02:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Terry and Johngirl

I visited the FHS and the Cornelian Bay Cemetery for some research for another rootschatter and did some more work on Mary Lavinia Josephine Avery.

I was somewhat confused by the fact records as highlighted by Webbythat there were in fact 53 other persons in the grave.

It appears that Mary had a public burial which cost 1 pound, less 2 shillings discount i.e. 18 shillings I have a copy of the the original Hobart Public Cemetery form of instruction for graves, which I will scan and send a bit later by pm.

No grave site was mentioned on the original paperwork or records held by the cemetery, which is unfortunate but I was reliably informed by the staff that in one of the unmarked graves was Mary but there was no record of which one.

I have a copy of the names of the other 53 occupants of the other non marked graves if you would like a copy.

I also obtained a copy of the section D in the Cemetery would you like a copy?

Tom
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: johngirl on Wednesday 18 February 09 04:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Tom,

Thankyou for visiting the Cornelian Bay Cemetery. They seem to be very slow in replying to emails ;D I`m still waiting for a reply. ::)
You have done very well Tom.
Its a pity they don`t still have their data base at the Female Factory. I`m sure they advertise the fact that they do ???
I havent had the time this week to go to the Tas Archives to look for information for Terry but hopefully will next week.

  Johngirl
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tom from OZ on Wednesday 18 February 09 08:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Terry

It appears I have inadvertantly transgressed with my original msg so I will report to you that I have received responses from both the Female factory convenor and a local writer of historical books that, it is certain that Mary was in fact an employee at the Cascade Training School and not an inmate
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Wednesday 18 February 09 08:51 GMT (UK)
Thanks Tom & johngirl as ever you have been most helpful.

The possibiliy that Mary's mother also Mary (nee Mckie) was employed there might tie in with the fact that before she and her husband to be, Louis Avery, left for Australia sometime between 1881 and 1890, he is shown in the 1935 Australia's who's who as having been engaged in "industrial and reformatory school work in Dumfries." What it doesn't mention though is that in the 1881 census for school in Stranraer, Scotland he is shown as being an inmate! When they got to Australia they Married in Adelaide and then they went to Broken Hill - their first child was born there in 1891.


Tom thanks for your email just received and I'd like the other copies if you could send them please?

Terry

Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Tuesday 24 February 09 09:02 GMT (UK)
Hi all again

I just thought I'd let all those that contributed to this thread know that I have made contact with a third cousin in Hobart. Only a few weeks ago I had no idea that my family existed outside the UK.  So many thanks to all and especially Tom who has been instrumental in helping with this and by some extraordinary coincidence knows my relative - small world!

Terry
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: Tasmania Connect on Wednesday 03 February 10 01:00 GMT (UK)
I am the daughter of Margaret Laudaire Avery and can help with any information needed on descendants of Louis Willyama Avery and Alice Edith Laudaire Avery. Can anyone help me with the origin of the name Laudaire?
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Wednesday 03 February 10 09:10 GMT (UK)
Tasmania Connect

I have sent you a Personal Message

Terry
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: mikel2009 on Sunday 29 July 12 22:18 BST (UK)
Hello friends,
                     I link to Alice Edith Lauder Jaffrey (the laudaire is wrong but I have seen it frequently now)
I would be very interested to link up with Terry and with Margaret Lauder Avery's daughter. I have a very extensive Lauder tree - probably of most interest to the latter.
       I dont know how to send a private mail so I am hoping this mail reaches either party.
Best wishes
          Moira
Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: SherlockBones on Monday 30 July 12 02:47 BST (UK)
       I dont know how to send a private mail so I am hoping this mail reaches either party.
          Moira

Click on the green scroll icon under the person's name you are trying to contact. You will then be able to send a private message.

Title: Re: Some Tasmania Help if Possible Please?
Post by: sitrucat on Monday 30 July 12 14:35 BST (UK)
Moira I have sent you a PM.

Thanks for the information

Terry