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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Govinda501 on Wednesday 11 February 09 18:03 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I wonder if anyone can help me.
I know that Richard Fogg, born 1815 in Bakewell, married a Jane Robertson in Edinburgh in 1837. In 1841 they were still living in Scotland as they had a child there in about 1845. I wondered if anyone can find them on an 1841 census of Edinburgh.
Also, Jane's father was James Robertson. Is there any way to find out any more information about him?
Your help is much appreciated.
Isabel
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Do you have an occupation for Richard? If the name was mistranscribed it might help.
Was the child you refer to James Robertson Fogg? I see his Christening on the IGI in Birmingham in 1850, giving birth date as 15th June 1845, but there is no official record that I could find on Scotlands People for his birth in Scotland.
Kirsty
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Hi Isabel and Kirsty,
Is this the family in 1841? Surname transcribed by FreeCen as Hogg - you could check the original image at http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk to confirm.
Address: Rowley Court, Abbey Hill, St Cuthberts parish, Edinburgh
Richard Hogg, m, 25, coach smith (journeyman), b. England
Jane Hogg, f, 23,-, b. in county
Margaret Hogg, f, 2, -, b. in county
Richard Hogg, m, 5 months, -, b. in county
hume :)
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Hume beat me to it - I can't find any births on the IGI of a Margaret or Richard HOGG with father Richard, so it may well be a mistranscription.
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Hello Kirsty and Hume,
I was just about to post this information.
The children born in Scotland were Margaret, in about 1839, and Thomas G. in about 1845.
Richard Fogg was a Coach Smith by 1851.
Your Hogg info looks correct. The curly F's and H's in those days probably looked very similar!
I suspect, then, that 5 month old Richard didn't survive as his name doesn't feature in later years. :(
Thank you both for your help.
Isabel
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Luckily Edinburgh marriage records around this time (mostly in St Cuthberts and Canongate) are quite detailed, esp. with regards to the bride's father. I took a look at the original register image and it's as follows:
"22nd July 1837
Hogg* Fogg & Robertson
Richard, Smith, Millar's Lodgings, Weir's Close, Canongate,
Collage Church Parish, and Jane Robertson, residing with
her father James Robertson, Hostler, No. 50 Abbeyhill,
Canongate, gave up their names for proclamation, certified
by the above named James Robertson, and John
Robertson, Wright, ?-an-nigh, Canongate, and by
Mr. John Christie one of the Elders of this Parish, the
above parties were proclaimed on the 23rd current."
Long winded ;D but a lot of detail there.
hume
*My mistake!! :-[
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Hi Hume
That's great information. Something for me to think about. I wonder if John was her brother.
Hostler sounds like something to do with horses, like an ostler.
Thank you.
Isabel
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The address for John Robertson may be Croft-an-Righ (House or cottage), it is behind Holyrood House, and just a few hundred Yards from 50 Abbeyhill, the address of James Robertson, and on the same street as Rowleys Court where Richard and Jane show in the 1841 census.
A map showing it - you need to zoom in a lot.
http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/edinburgh1056_1_se.html
Could be worth checking the census records to see if they are still there later, that might give you more names to identify Jane's family.
Kirsty
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That looks great. I'll see what census information I can find. It's all fascinating stuff ! :)
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One possibility from the 1841 census on FreeCen might be
60 Abbeyhill
James Robertson 36 - Labourer in Coach Yard
Margaret 63
Thomas 28 - Cabinet Maker Jrnymn
edit: the age is all wrong I know. Could have been a brother though...
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I just found right next door to Richard and Jane at Rowley Court
ROBERTSON John M 32 Coach Body Maker Journeyman Midlothian
ROBERTSON Isabella F 25 Midlothian
ROBERTSON James M 6 Midlothian
ROBERTSON Thomas M 4
Maybe the John Robertson witness to their marriage?!
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Oh, wonderful finds. :D It looks like the family only stayed a stone's throw away from each other.
Kirsty, great find on John's residence in 1837. Obviously couldn't see that myself! ::)
hume
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The only thing I can think is that the father James Robertson died some time between 1837 and 1841. I suppose Margaret Robinson could be the mother although that would have made her have her children later than most people were having them then.
I can't seem to find a record of his death though.
I'll keep looking. :)
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Richard Fogg is my paternal Gt.Gt.Grandfather.He was born in Bakewell,Derbys.in 1815.He married Jane Robertson,born Edinburgh,1819 on 22/7/1837.They had 9 kids that I know of.I didn't know about Richard Jr.My Gt.Grandfather James Robertson Fogg was born in Sheffield,Sth.Yorks,in Sept.1846.Richard died in Aston,Warwicks. on 12/6/1884 of old age.Jane died on 2/4/1876,in Aston,Warwicks of heart failure and Dropsy.
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Isabel,Thanks for your .p.m.I didn't mind at all,Quite the opposite!I can't send a p.m.to you as I am a non-paying member,but if you would like to,you could p.m. me your email address and i'll give you my email and phone no.We can share all the family history we have then.Darron Fogg.
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Very interesting, Richard Fogg/ Jane Robertson are my 3rd great-grandparents. I wonder if there any old photos of the properties where they lived in Abbeyhill, as it seems on google maps to have been redeveloped.
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Hostler and ostler are the same - just different spellings of the word.
That place looks like Croft-an-righ, which is Gaelic and means King's Croft. Odd to find a Gaelic place name in Edinburgh.
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Govinda501, please remember that new member with only one post can not access the private message function option yet please reply on the topic so that they can reply to you.
Regards
Sarah
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Hello again Paul,
I am sorry that govinda50 has still not replied to your message, they were online yesterday ???
Regards
Sarah
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Hi Sarah
I just saw your message. I have been in touch with Paul in July.