RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: drumalief on Tuesday 10 February 09 17:12 GMT (UK)
-
I would be grateful for suggestions as to where I might obtain the marriage certificate of William Douglas and Rachel Henry both of Ballycrum. The marriage would have taken place in the 1830s possibly at the 1st Limavady or Derramore.
-
Hi,
I am afraid that you will not be able to get a certificate. Civil registration for Protestant marriages did not start until 1845. You will have to go to the church to look at any register which they may or may not have kept or hope that these have been microfilmed and are held by PRONI. Info on this should be available on the PRONI website. You should also consider Drumachose Presbyterian Church. It is a few hundred yards from Ist Limavady.
Regards
-
Many thanks for your prompt and informative reply. It's just occurred to me that they may not have been officially married. What percentage of the population did get married in those days?
Thanks again.
-
Hi,
I have never seen figures for people living together but I would have thought in a very religious country it would have been very few. Perhaps someone else may know.
Regards
-
Derramore Presbyterian Church marriages exist for 1827-1838 not on PRONI list (they only seem to have the baptisms and communicants).
First Limavady Presbyterian Church has marriages 1832-1841 (PRONI has on microfilm).
Drumachose Presbyterian Church has marriages from 1837 (not listed for PRONI).
-
Thanks to you, too, aghadowey. It looks like a holiday in Limavady is called for to inspect the registers.
-
Not sure where you are located but as well as the registers in Limavady, PRONI and Coleraine Library have them on microfilm.
-
In an old notebook of mine I have recorded an OAP claim for
Eliza Gordon nee Douglas daughter of William Douglas and
Rachel Henry:
She made the claim in 1910 and asked for a search of 1851 census
for Ballycrum:
1851 census
William Douglas aged 40 farm labourer, head
Rachel Douglas aged 31 wife [married 1831]
Mark Douglas 18
James Douglas 17
William Douglas 14
Elizabeth Douglas 12 [Claimant married Gordon]
Isobel Douglas 10
John Douglas 5
Henry Douglas 3
Wilson Douglas 9months
Additionally with the claim was a note of 3 baptisms:
Letter from William Browne [Reverend?]: Children of William Douglas and
Rachel Henry baptised:
James Douglas baptised 8 June 1834, Mark Douglas baptised 25 June 1834,
William Douglas baptised 15 Feb 1838:
The family was also in Ballycrum in 1841 and additional family members
listed included:
Rachel Douglas daughter aged 4 [not listed 1851]
Maty daughter aged 2 [Martha died aged 7]
Henry Douglas son aged 11 months [dead by 1851]
Mary Ann Douglas daughter aged 1 [dead by 1851]
Wilson Douglas aged 11 months in 1851 married Nancy Forrest [daughter
of John Forrest of Terrydoo & Ballycrum] in 1872.
The Rev William Browne was minister of 1st Limavady Presbyterian Church
1906-1945.
So it looks like your Douglas family used 1st Limavady:
PRONI MIC/1P/34
Baptisms, 1832-9 and 1861-1905
Marriages 1832-1841
Stipend book 1837-1906
-
Gortinanima,
What can I say. Your information has confirmed that my ggggf was the said William Douglas of Ballycrum. His son James was my gggf and I have the records from then on. I doubt if it will ever be possible to go back further.
My grateful thanks to you for taking the time and effort - 'Lang may your lum reek' (Scots, I know but can't think of an Ulster equivalent!)
-
John Douglas of Ballynaherry, Drumachose
is listed in the Tithes valuation, 1826 and
also the 1831 census.
He was still in Ballynaherry [or a son named John]
in the Griffiths valuation of 1858 with a house valued
at £1, 10 and 2 parcels of land 16acres and 10 acres
valued at £16 [from Marquis of Waterford]
Additionally, John Douglas and others rented hilly
land from the Marquis of Waterford [258 acres] in
Ballycrum townland, probably for sheep/cattle grazing.
It is possible that John Douglas was the father of your
William Douglas.
-
The Estate of John H. De La Poer Marquis of Waterford (1871):
Lot 80- part of the Townland of Ballycrum- no Douglas but 260 acres 1 rod 3 perches (Joseph Pollock, Robert Rankin, Thomas Mullan, William Stewart, Daniel Smyth) might be the258 acres John Douglas and others rented earlier.
Lot 86- has part of Ballycrum but no Douglas listed.
-
Yet again my grateful thanks to you both for your diligence in this matter.
Your reference to John H de la Poer, Marquis of Waterford is the key. My ancestor, John Douglas, ran off with his wife (Lady Florence Grosvenor) and they lived in a turf house in Magilligan - she was well known for her prowess with the slane - which they called 'Power House'. The Marquis took it well and he went on to marry Lady Blanche Somerset. You couldn't make it up, could you?
-
The 'official line' is that his first wife, Lady Florence died during childbirth
4 April 1873
'John Henry de la Poer Beresford, fifth Marquis was married twice, first to Lady Florence Grosvenor (who died in childbirth and whose monument is inserted in a window at Clonegam, Waterford) and later Lady Blanche Somerset, only, daughter of the 8th Duke of Beaufort'.
-
Of course, the 'official line' would say that. The Marquis wanted the matter hushed up as my ancestor was the father of the child. The scandal was fully reported by Myles na Gopaleen in the Limavady Sunday Sport of the time. As the child was a boy and the Marquis' child by Lady Blanche was a girl, I belive I am the rightful heir to the title. This makes me equal to aghadowey who I see is a Marquessate.
-
Gosh, Who is left for me to look down upon. "I know my place"
Regards
-
Sorry drumaleif but I'm descended from High Kings of Dalriada and other royalty. Besides, illegitimate child of Marquis of Waterford's wife would have no claim to any inheritance if the story is true.
-
Sometimes family stories are incorrect or a bit confused.
John, Marquis of Waterford had several children by his 2nd wife, the eldest being a son and heir.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Beresford,_5th_Marquess_of_Waterford
Florence's maiden name was Rowley (not Grosvenor)-
http://www.thepeerage.com/p2384.htm
Perhaps there's been some confusion with this court case- see here (http://www.hudgill.co.uk/Ada%20Gertrude%20Hudgell%20-%20George%20Tooth/The%20Times%2030th%20Jan%201918.htm)
-
Aghadowey,
The issue here is whether you believe The Times or the Limavady Sunday Sport. Unfortunately, the back issues of the Sunday Sport were used up in the Great Fish And Chip Paper Famine of 1921-2 caused by the glut of potatoes during those years.
There are so many inaccuracies in The Times story, e.g. they eloped to Magilligan not Paris.
Seriously though, fascinating reading. Thank you for pointing it up.