RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: waitara on Monday 09 February 09 22:41 GMT (UK)
-
I am trying to find more information on the service record of my great-great uncle Absalom Pollard Rigby b. 1863 in Salford, Lancs.
I am almost sure I have found him in the 1881 census as a private in the army based at " The Verne Citadel "in " The
Isle of Portland ", Dorset. His place of birth does not correspond, but I feel this is either an error, or he did not want to be found.
I have managed to discover that the regiment is the Prince of Wales' Own West Yorkshire [late 14th].The commanding
officer is Lieut. Colonel Edward Saunders. I would like to know when and where he enlisted. He married in 1887, and was no longer in the army then, but I don't know when he was demobbed. He went on to become a railway policeman.
I found him on the recently released 1911 census as 'Abraham' Rigby, a common mistake. Also, almost by accident, listed on the British Army WW1 Medal Rolls Index Cards as a Corporal with the [ 6th ] Manchester Regiment. He enlisted on 10/9/14 and was discharged on 13/4/15 as medically unfit. The age seems to fit, and I am surprised he was able to join up at his age. The printing is not very clear, but I have interpreted his discharge age as 54. I have no idea what the other figures mean, and what the medal would have been.
The service records I have quoted involve a fair bit of conjecture, and I may have jumped to conclusions, but I would be grateful if anyone could shed some light on this puzzle.
-
Hi and welcome to Rootschat - can't help with his service records and you may already have this info
1871 census for Union Row Horwich - indexed as Abraham. Everybody b Salford except Absalom
Absalom Rigby 36 railway guard b Barton
Susan 36
Henry 15
Phoebe 10
Abraham P 8 (image shows Abraham)
Jane 4
Susan 1
RG10; Piece: 3927; Folio: 26; Page: 14
-
This is from www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1853
RIGBY Absolom POLLARD Susannah Salford St Simon Salford C27/1/223
-
The Medal Roll does show his age as 54
-
Thanks for your replies. I have pretty comprehensive information on Absalom Pollard Rigby, birth, marriage,several censuses, etc. I really want to know if he was a member of the armed forces around 1881 and WW1, and, if so any further details.
-
Hi Waitara
Welcome to the forum. As he enlisted twice, with a definite gap in between there would have been two sets of papers at one time. In reverse order, his WW1 service papers - which Ancestry are publishing, but they are only up to the Ns - will indicate on Page 1 any previous military experience, so should confirm you have the right man. You could also check for him in the pension files, which Ancestry have completed.
If he did not serve abroad during WW1 he would not be entitled to any medals. The medal index card you have found sounds like one for the award of a Silver War Badge, introduced in 1916, basically to stop discharged men receiving white feathers. If it does not say SWB it should say ‘List’ somewhere on the card. The SWB style of card is the only one that gives dates of enlistment and date of discharge, so I am pretty sure I am correct.
The other information will be the Army Order under which he was discharged. The vast majority were under Para 392 (xvi) – ‘No longer physically fit for war service’. This link from the NA gives a picture of both the card and the SWB - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/medals.asp. Each SWB was numbered, but you will have to visit Kew to look up the roll quoted after SWB or List, and this will probably be the only additional information you will get.
The army would have been glad of his services, even if it was only for remaining at home and training recruits or acting as a clerk.
According to the 1883 Army List Lt Col Saunders served with the 2nd Battalion of the 14th Regiment/POW West Yorkshire, which was a Regular battalion, rather than a part-time one. At the end of 1882 they were in Bradford. He would have enlisted for 12 years after the age of 18, so the fact that he was not still serving in 1891, shows that he probably transferred to the Army Reserve, after either 6 or 7 years in uniform, and choose not to tell the enumerator he was an Army Reservist.
Findmypast are publishing surviving service papers for men discharged before the end of 1913. They are not due until 2011, so if you cannot wait you will have to visit Kew and look in series WO97. These are original documents so you will need a Reader’s ticket. If his papers do not survive you will certainly find him in the Muster Books (WO12/16 – depending upon date) which with tell you where he was on the first day of each month. His first entry (on enlistment) should give his parish of birth, age and occupation on enlistment. You should also look up where the sergeants where, as some of them would have been out recruiting.
The 14th Regiment had two battalions and you must be aware that he could be transferred between them if required. If you start with the muster for the 2nd Bn in 1881-82 (in WO16), which includes the census, and work backwards until he disappears, then check the Depot, you should find his enlistment. Before the late 1870s the musters are in WO12. The Depot muster is usually bound with the home battalion's muster. If you do not find him in the 14th Depot he may have come from a Brigade Depot, which provided men to a number of regiments.
You can also work forwards to find his discharge. Sometimes the information about parish of birth etc is repeated, and also an intended town of residence may be included.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm
Ken
-
Hi km1971
Thank you for your detailed information.You are right about it being the Silver War Badge, there is no actual mention of those words, but your description fits.
The document lists his name, Absalom Rigby,- Corps. 6th Manch. - Reg. No. 12,
Rank Cpl. -Date of Enlistment 10-9-14 and Discharge 13-4-15. Under the column heading Cause of Discharge, it reads
Par. [possibly] 3 or 5?,- Med. unfit,- Age 54 yrs. K.R.[ King's Regulation?]
Below, where the words [a] Badge, and Medal, are printed on the document, each word has inverted commas beneath it. Also, alongside the printed words- Action taken- is written - List TH/725
I have looked through the websites you listed, and it appears I will discover no more without a trip to the National Archives at Kew. It will be a long trip, as I live about as far away as you can get on the other side of the world!
Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.
Waitara.
-
Hi waitara and welcome !
You might like to try the Manchester Regiment Forum ... ( though they sometimes lurk around here also !! ) :)
http://www../
Annie :)
-
Re Liverpool Annie's last message -
The Manchester's never lurked - ambush yes (:-)))
George.
-
Hello Waitara
My GG Grandad William Richard Joseph was also in the 14th West Yorkshire Regiment and in the 1881 census is a private in the army based at " The Verne Citadel "in " The Isle of Portland ", Dorset. My William must of known your Absolom !
I found my William's Army records at Kew. Very informative.
The West Yorkshire Regiment fought in the Second Anglo-Afghan War 1878-1880. Here is a link to the website.
http://www.garenewing.co.uk/angloafghanwar/index.php
Pilgarlic
-
Hi,
Absalom Pollad Rigby b. 1863 is my 3rd Great Grand Uncle. Henry Rigby his brother is my 3rd great grandad. I hope you get this message and hopefully get in touch.
Thanks,
Tom.
-
Hi Tom,
Welcome to RootsChat :)
I am sorry but waitara is having problems with his email at the moment, I am hopeful that I have managed to get a message to him via Mrs Waitara.
Hope to see him soon
Regards
Sarah