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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: devonblue on Sunday 08 February 09 19:09 GMT (UK)

Title: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Sunday 08 February 09 19:09 GMT (UK)
I have Fed and Rebecca ROBERTS on the 1861 Census with their 2 children Mary Ann and Sarah in Minchinhampton. They were Hawkers or Gipsies.

In 1881 they were in Symondsbury, Dorset with 11 other children, two of which Mark and Brittania were born in America.  William was born in Devon in 1861, Mark in America in 1863, Brittania in America in 1865 then they were in Devon again by 1868 when Thomas was born.  All the rest were born in England. Their daughter Sarah appears to be travelling with them married to a James Cooper.

Mark Roberts' son also Mark went on to marry Patience Manley in 1919 and Brittania I think married Powers Manley, Patience's Uncle, about 1889 when she was 23.

Can anyone tell me why they would have gone to America, and for such a short time?

I am finally sorting out all these lines but very unknowing about  travellers as a whole.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Monday 09 February 09 13:53 GMT (UK)
Hi not sure if we have contacted before but I am related to James Cooper & Sarah Roberts their sons married into my Buckland family
 You are correct it is Fred & Rebecca Daughter

I have wondered why they went to USA ........ but lots of them did go and came back just could be they didn;t like it there, maybe another thought they made enough money to return and be  comfortable not to have to go back again ?

I know that was why my own Grt Grand father returned although his parents and siblings travelled over many times and finally settled there

I note you also have Wells I am also related to them who are your line ?

They were selling horses to USA
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Monday 09 February 09 15:52 GMT (UK)
I have Henry Manley married Matilda Wells on June 7th 1847 Bridport, their son Charles Manley married Sarah Hughes in Offwell onSept 16th 1891, the witnesses were Leonard Hughes and Patience Orchard.

(I actually posted about them before on another thread about the Manleys.)

Amazing how all these families were sort of inter-related.  They are my partner's family really but quite fascinating!
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Monday 09 February 09 17:06 GMT (UK)
I have info on Wells family :
Robert Wells b  1819 m Amelia Cooper ( not sure if she was one) they went to USA they had a daughter Matilda b 1851
 but I know who she married it wasn;t a manley but her cousin a Wells and they also went to USA and stayed there

What I am wondering is this I think Robert had a brother Joseph b 1821 Dorset his wife was Eliza I think its possible that Matilda who m 1847 could be their daughter ?
(Unconfirmed)

 This is earliest I can find Family who I think could be Matilda kin
 1861 * Charstock Axemnister Dorset
Joseph Wells       40  b 1821 Dorset
Eliza    Wells        50 b 1811 Dorset
Isiah Wells           18 b 1843
Jane Wells           14 b 1847
Gaius Wells         13 b 1848
Hezekiah Wells   12 b 1849
Louisa Wells        8 b 1853
James Wells         6 b 1855
Albertina Wells   4 b 1857
Joseph Wells       2 b 1859
Hester Wells       1 b 1860
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Monday 09 February 09 17:27 GMT (UK)
I know that Matilda's father was a James Wells, a cutler according to the marriage cert. They lived in Bridport then although she appears to have been born in Exeter. The witnesses were levi Thomas and Henry Curme.

I have a possible Matilda Wells aged 20  on the 1841 census in Devonport, Plymouth along with what could be her mother Grace Wells aged 54. No sign of father however. They are listed as Paupers.

Sorry, I don't think the Axminster family is the right one in that case.

Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Monday 09 February 09 17:35 GMT (UK)
I didn;t realize you had marriage certificate  :)

There has to be a link as the Wells family was huge and most from Dorset area but moved about west country

I don;t know much about Robert Wells before he left England in 1850ish ,but he did return to Dorset then went again to USA so its a possiblity that maybe its a brother or cousin ?

Think we need to do a little more searching
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Monday 09 February 09 19:37 GMT (UK)
I found this family tracked them through census years :

1851 Census Fordington,  Dorchester Dorset,   135 Mill Street
James Wells      35 b 1816 Broadwalke Wiltshire               Razor/Grinder
Catherine          28 b 1823 Dublin, Ireland
James                 15 b 1836 Yeovil, Somerset,                       Basket Maker
Fredrick              8 b 1843 Fordington, Dorset,
Alice                   6 b 1845 Fordington, Dorset,
Sarah Ann          4 b 1847 Fordington, Dorset,
Edward      4mths b 1850  Fordington, Dorset,
+136 Mill street
 Joseph Smith    48 b 1803  Southampton, Hampshire,     Basket maker
Sarah                  54 b 17 97 Teffont, Wiltshire
Julia                    27 b 1824 Portsmouth, Hampshire
Mary Ann            6 b 1845  Portsmouth, Hampshire
Margaret       4mths b 1850  Reading, Berkshire
 Joseph Robinson  22 b1829  Kingsland, Middlesex         Shoemaker
Eliza Townsend    18 b 1833  Chebsey, Middlesex           Visitor
Mark Noble           20 b 1831 Bath, Somerset,                   Tinman

1861 Census Fordington County/Island: Dorset  Mill Street
James Wells    45 b 1816 Broad Chalke, Wiltshire, England        Cutler
Kitty                 36 b 1825 Dublin, Ireland
Fredrick           18 b 1843 Fordington, Dorset,
Alice                 16 b 1845 Fordington, Dorset,
Edward            10 b 1851  Fordington, Dorset,
George               8 b 1853  Fordington, Dorset,
Amos                  6 b 1855  Fordington, Dorset,
Eli                       4 b1857  Fordington, Dorset,
Horace                3 b 1858 Fordington, Dorset,
Emma                 1 b 1860  Fordington, Dorset,

1871 Census Fordington,  Dorchester Dorset,  Mill Street
James Wells  54 b 1817  Broadwinsor, Wiltshire,     widow/Grinder
Fredrick        29 b 1842  Fordington, Dorset,             Gas fitter
Mary Ann     25 b 1846 Fordington, Dorset,             Sister in law
Amos             15 b 1855 Fordington, Dorset,             Son
Eli                  13 b 1858 Fordington, Dorset,             Son
Emma              9 b 1862 Fordington, Dorset,             Daughter
Elizabeth         7 b 1864 Fordington, Dorset,             Daughter

1891 Census Lyme (Lyme Regis) Axminster    Dorset 
Matilda Stone 50 b 1841  Uplyme, Devon,               Widow/licenced Hawker
John                30 b 1861   Lyme, Dorset
James               19 b 1872  Lyme, Dorset
Noah                16 b1875  Lyme, Dorset
Elizabeth          15 b 1876 Lyme, Dorset
Mary Jane        12 b 1879 Lyme, Dorset
Kate                    9 b 1882 Lyme, Dorset
Alfred        8 b 1883 Lyme, Dorset
James Veach  55 b1836  Uplyme, Devon,  Lodger/Labour
James Wells   90 b 1801  Bristol, Gloucestershire,  Visitor widow/Licenced Hawker


Christenings :
Fredric Wells  30 Apr 1843 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catharine

Amos Wells    11th April  1855 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
 Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catherine

Eli Wells  12 Jan 1857 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catharine 

Horace Wells 31 Jul 1859 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
 Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Catherine

Emma Wells  14 Mar 1861 Christening Place: Fordington, Dorset, England
Father's Name: James Wells Mother's Name: Katharine


Marriage :
James Wells – Catharine Ryalley 1842   Jul/Aug/SeptSturminster Dorset

I wondered if it was your James  Wells ? But couldn;t find Matilda ,then in 1891 there is a Matilda Stone ? and it looks like James Wells is visiting  as you have marriage before 1851 Census could she be their daughter ?

I found a marriage
Matilda Wells - Henry Stone  Jul/Aug/Sept 1858 Axminster Devon Dorset

It may not be your family but hope it helps someone  ;)

Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Saturday 14 February 09 12:01 GMT (UK)
So sorry, I only just saw this.

I'll look at it in detail and get back to you.  You've been busy. Thanks.

Mind you I always think doing someone else's look ups is often easier (not saying it was in this case, there's mountains of info here :) ) and sometimes more interesting than staring at your own brick walls!!
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Sunday 15 February 09 09:01 GMT (UK)
Ok.
If Matilda Wells married in 1847 and was of 'full age' she must have been born prior to 1826.

You Robert Wells (and Amelia Cooper) might have  been her brother. I dont think Jospeh could have been her father the age is wrong but again he could have been her brother.

The James Wells and Catherine family again could be her brother, in fact this is quite likley as he was a cutler, the same ocupation as her father.

So looking at this logically we have a James Wells who has children:

Robert b 1819
James b 1816 Wiltshire
Joseph 1821 Dorset
Matilda b 1826, Exeter,

The Matilda I found in Plymouth in 1841 was with an older woman Grace Well aged 54 so born about  1787, was this her grandmother???

Another possibility is to look for the Marriage witnesses, Levi Thomas and Henry Curme. That might throw something up.

Still need to do a lot of searching methinks!
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Sunday 15 February 09 10:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Devonblue
I like your logical thinking :
Yes its possible Robert( Bob) was Matilda sibling
I think you have listed possible siblings too

Robert b 1819 Dorset i have seen his birth as early as 1815
James b 1816 Wiltshire
Joseph 1821 Dorset
Matilda b 1826, Exeter

Here are some more possible family:
John Wells 1801
Thomas Wells 1801
George Wells 1802
Benjamin Wells 1804
Emmanuel Wells  1811
Shadrack Wells 1812
Jane Wells 1828

1851 Workhouse Shaftsbury St James Dorset
George Wells       87 b 1764  Shaftsbury Dorset      widower                          Razor Grinder

1851 Census Morden Dorset
George Wells         49 b 1802 Dorset                                        Basketmaker
Elizabeth Wells     48 b 1803 Wandborough Hampshire
Jintildo Wells        19 b 1832 Broadwayne Dorset
Benjamin Wells     16 b 1835 Mongton Dorset                        Basketmaker
Alice Wells            14 b 1837 Broad Chalk Wiltshire
Louisa Wells           9 b  1842 Ashmore Dorset
Zacharius Smith    44 b 1807 Rotherwick Hampshire             Basket maker 
Would say that Elizabeth & Zacharius are sister & Brother

1851 Census
Shaftsbury Holy Trinity Dorset
John Wells              50 b 1801  Pentridge Dorset                Razor Grinder
Mahala                   42 b 1809 Millbrook Hampshire
Dinah                     22 b 1829Lavant Sussex
Charity                   16 b 1835 Ashmore Dorset
Walter                     14 b 1837 Shaftsbury Dorset
Patience                  10 b1841 Shaftsbury
Elizabeth                  7 b 1844 Shaftsbury
John                         5 b 1846 Shaftsbury
Ephraim                   3 b 1848 Shaftsbury
Alfred                      2 b1849 Shaftsbury
John                         1 b 1850  Shaftsbury                       (Grandson)


 I am not convinced that the father of all would be a James though...... could be any given name really have to look at sons etc to see name association or if we are lucky find maybe Robert Wells birth register that would gaive us much more help with parents.

I was thinking  about what you asked why Roberts went to USA ?
 Here is another possible reason they could have gone over when Robert Wells died he was known as a king of Gypsies in USA and when any of them died many came from all over the world for the funeral and also the Stanley family & Cooper family Owen Stanley & Harriet Wharton i think died about that time so could be they went over again for funeral I know it might seem abit far fetched ,but on their orbits it does say many came from England, just  thought..

also note Rebecca Roberts was b abt 1834 in Dorset could she have been a Wells ?
I also note you have Mark the son married to  :

Mark Roberts' son also Mark went on to marry Patience Manley in 1919 and Brittania I think married Powers Manley, Patience's Uncle, about 1889 when she was 23.

I have Mark married to a Frances Orchard ? was this his 1st marriage ? I can;t remember where or who told me and have no dates......... but its noted against him on my file i know I would not write it unless someone had told me

Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Sunday 15 February 09 11:01 GMT (UK)
According to Matilda's marriage cert her father was James Wells a cutler so presumably siblings would have the same father if they had the same surname.

As for Mark Roberts he was def married to Patience Manley as Patience was my mother in law's aunt and the used to visit well within living memory.  I wonder if that was his second marriage then?

I'll have to look tomorrow, I'm off out in a mo for the rest of the day.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Sunday 15 February 09 11:33 GMT (UK)
AAh its my eyes lol sorry Blue you have Mark son of Mark married to Patience Manley
 I think I am talking about Mark born 1864 married Fiance Orchard would be Father and mother to Mark
Sorry   ???
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Trainette on Sunday 15 February 09 20:03 GMT (UK)
Hi , I have been following this thread as it my direct line, All I know is that lots of Romanies went to America about that time, some liked it stayed and others chose to come back to England.  I come from The Roberts twice as my mothers granny was Martha Roberts daughter of Fred and Becky she married Joe Orchard and my fathers granny was Trainette daghter of Fred and Becky and she marrie Joe Penfold. The Fiance who married Mark Roberts was a sister to Joe ( married to Martha)
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Monday 16 February 09 12:22 GMT (UK)
Hi trainette
Thanks for clearing that up  ;)
 I am related to James Cooper & Sarah Roberts ( Fred & Rebecca daughter)
Their son William Cooper married my Grt Aunt Tianne Buckland

What I would like to know if you can help who was Fred Roberts parents and Rebecca's ?
 Also do you know who Henry Cooper William's brother married ?
I only have 1st name of Caroline ?
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Monday 16 February 09 12:49 GMT (UK)
Tiggi, I have Mark Roberts marrying Fiance (Frances) Orchard in SeptQ 1889  registered in  Exeter.  Those are Mark Jn's parents.

I am now even more puzzled by the Wells though.
I have found a family of Robert Wells b 1819, his wife Amelia and several children going to America in 1854 and again in 1862, about the time that the Roberts went.  This lot include a Richard Wells b in Glasgow.  A Richard Wells b 1841 Glasgow was living with the Manleys (Matilda Wells) in lodgings in Sidmouth in 1871 so they must be related somewhere along the line.  I wonder if the Robert Wells who went to America was Matilda's brother? Do you know anything about these ?

Have still had no replies to my emails to the owner of the Romanygenes sites who appears to be related to all this lot too via the Hughes/Jones family.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Monday 16 February 09 13:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Devonblue
Yes I do know of the Wells family you mention Robert was known as old "Bob" Wells in USA and family were considered wealthy Horsedealers and he was known as King of Gypsies in USA....... but then many were ...

 He died in 1901 in USA aged 90
 I think you could be right Matilda could well be a sister as several of the Wells Families have a Matilda so its a name that runs though family
Proving it is another matter .........

Robert Himself had a daughter Matilda b 1850/1 I know  married Hekeziah Wells > son of Joseph Wells  Roberts Brother they settled in America and married into my Buckland family and they were also linked to Stanley family

Regarding Robert Wells his daughter Pheobe  married Samuel Cooper another English Gypsy family in USA called Coopers of Somerville  ( also wealthy Horsetraders) which that family relate back to Matthis Cooper ( Windsor Coopers) who was friend of Charles Leland

I have worked out that there were several Wells brothers and nearly all the family came from Dorset in England
 but not all travelled to USA
There was Robert George William Henry Benjamin James Josiah  .......... sisters > Fanny Janey ( Ganey)

My Grt Grt Grandmother was Unity Wells daughter of Benjamin Wells also brother to Robert Wells

Robert had also a son Richard b 1854 he married Martha Williams of the William Gypsies from England also famous in USA for horsetrading and owning property...... her father was  known as "Prince" Thomas Williams
As far as I can find out Richard Wells died sometime between 1876-1880 in USA


 do you have the 1862 passenger list ? i would love a copy if you do
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Wednesday 18 February 09 13:51 GMT (UK)
Thanks for this. Sorry didn't reply sooner but I've got a virus which has made me v dizzy.

I found that passenger list  info on the American Romanichals (Passenger Lists) part of the RomanyGenes site.   I will try and find it on another source and see if  it gives  us any more info.

Arrival Date Jul 1854 Port of Departure Glasgow, Scotland *Ship TryPage1

********************************************
Ren Wells (Robert)1 Jul 1854 abt 1819 Glasgow, Scotland
Amelia Wells  1 Jul 1854  abt 1827        Glasgow, Scotland        
Betsy Wells    1 Jul 1854    abt 1846    Glasgow, Scotland       
Diana Wells    1 Jul 1854    abt 1845    Glasgow, Scotland       
Henry Wells 1 Jul 1854    abt 1851    Glasgow, Scotland    
Leonard Wells 1 Jul 1854 abt 1848    Glasgow, Scotland    
Matilda Wells 1 Jul 1854    abt 1850    Glasgow, Scotland        
Richd Wells    1 Jul 1854    abt 1854    Glasgow, Scotland           
Wm Wells    1 Jul 1854    abt 1843    Glasgow, Scotland    
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: tiggi on Wednesday 18 February 09 15:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Devonblue
thanks for that I have 1854 passenger list
there were more that went I am posting them so you can see
Also on the same Ship were Stanley family
Benjamin Skinner Stanley              b 1826  aged 28 (Owen & Harriet Stanley Son)
Mary Stanley b 1824                                            30 ( Mary Hicks)
Betsy Stanley b 1853                                              1
Leva Stanley b 1850                                              4
Samuel Stanley b 1852                                          2
Sentella Stanley b 1848                                         6
Thomas Stanley b 1854                                         -
Tracy Stanley b 1831                                           22
William Stanley b 1832                                       23
Betsey Stanley b 1853                                           1
*******
John Harrison b 1827                                        29
Priscilla Harrison b 1827                                  29
Mary lou ( Naylor) Harrison b 1850                 4
John Harrison b 1853                                         1
***********
Henry Harrison b 1829                                    25
Hyat Harrison b 1836                                      18
Richard Harrison b 1837                                 17
Viletine Harrison b 1846                                   8

****************************************
Rebecca Cooper b 1799 English   aged 55
Phebe Cooper 1846  b English      aged  8
************************************
Richard Hicks abt 1826 b England aged 28 9 could be brother of Mary Hicks )
**************************

Its the 1862 passenger list i don;t have if you come across thato ne please let me know would be interesting to see who else went at that time
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Wednesday 18 February 09 16:17 GMT (UK)
1862 30TH JULY*SHIP ETNA TO NEW YORK*
Alice Wells  abt 1855 Liverpool England
Amelia Wells  abt 1817 Liverpool England 
Betsy Wells  abt 1855 Liverpool England
Hebe Wells  abt 1844 Liverpool England   
Henry Wells  abt 1857 Liverpool England 
Joseph Wells  abt 1860 Liverpool England 
Leonard Wells  abt 1855 Liverpool England 
Mary Wells   abt 1861 Liverpool England 
Matilda Wells abt 1856 Liverpool England   
Richd Wells abt 1858 Liverpool England 
Robt Wells  abt 1822 Liverpool England   
Rodez Wells  abt 1836 Liverpool England   
Samy Wells  abt 1859 Liverpool England   
Thos Wells  abt 1861 Liverpool England   
Wm Wells  abt 1841 Liverpool England
//////
Jno Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1798 Dealer(Think Bird)
Mrs. Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1798   
Emily Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1861
Mrs. Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1832 
Fred Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1851 
Harriet Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1853   
Jame Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1857   
Jas Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1858   
Jas Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1832 Dealer
Mary Hird 30 Jul 1862 abt 1855

From the same source - American Romanichals.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Gypsy123 on Saturday 28 February 09 17:43 GMT (UK)
I my name is sally i have just started this family tree thing,
My Grate Gran was Called Mary Ann Manley her Brother was Parvis, now i am not sure if this could be you family as it seems they married in to the Manley's later on , but My uncle who is in his 80s said that some relations to the Manley's were in the US, AND THE YOUNG MAN WALKED THE HORSES DOWN TO A RIVER,. THEN A MAN THAT HAD SHEEP ASKED HIM WHAT HE WAS DOING IN HIS STREAM, THEY STARTED ROWING THEN THE YOUNG TRAVELLER MAN GOT SHOT,
I HAVE ALSO SEEN ON A SHIP RECORD FROM NEW YORK IN ABOUT THE 1880+ I WILL CHECK TO BE SURE, THAT A HENRY MANLY AGE 30 HORES DEALER RETURNED FROM THE US,
 IT ALL SOUNDS ABOUT THE SAME TIME, THERE MAY BE SOMETHING IN IT.
IT SOUNDS LIKE HENRY WAS BROTHER TO PARVIS AND MARYANN AS THERE DAD WAS HENRY , HOPE THIS HELPS
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Gypsy123 on Saturday 28 February 09 17:49 GMT (UK)
FORGOT TO ADD, I WAS THINKING THIS WOULD HAVE BEEN A GOOD RESON TO LEAVE THE U.S.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Gypsy123 on Saturday 28 February 09 18:00 GMT (UK)
I have Henry Manley married Matilda Wells on June 7th 1847 Bridport, their son Charles Manley married Sarah Hughes in Offwell onSept 16th 1891, the witnesses were Leonard Hughes and Patience Orchard.

(I actually posted about them before on another thread about the Manleys.)

Amazing how all these families were sort of inter-related.  They are my partner's family really but quite fascinating!

Matilder and Henry are my Grate Grate gran parents, i have been wondering what her maiden name was, thank you, i no she had relations in the U.S, but i thought that was Manleys,
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Saturday 28 February 09 20:15 GMT (UK)
Who were your Grandparents then??

You are related to my worst half. His Grandmother was a MANLEY.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Gypsy123 on Saturday 28 February 09 20:48 GMT (UK)
Maryann was Charleys sister, my grandad was Charley Tucker Maryanns son,
maryann married a none Traveller but he took her way of life on
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Gypsy123 on Saturday 28 February 09 20:51 GMT (UK)
Who were your Grandparents then??

You are related to my worst half. His Grandmother was a MANLEY.
you say Grandmother wich sister was that?
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Saturday 28 February 09 22:39 GMT (UK)
Caroline daughter of Charles Manley and Sarah Hughes
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Sunday 01 November 09 01:31 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone, I have just started researching my mother's family and have discovered this website. My great grandparents were Powers Manley & Britannia Roberts and Leonard Small & Laura Penfold. Any info to share would be great.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Trainette on Monday 02 November 09 12:57 GMT (UK)
Hi mintski, i am related to you in a coupple of ways. My grt grandfather was Joe Penfold who was Laura's brother their parents were Ned and |Racheal nee Holand and Brittania was a sister to two of my grt grandmothers, Trainette and Martha these were some of the children of Fred Roberts and Rebecca nee james. Try and let me know who you are i might Know you.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Monday 02 November 09 18:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Trainette, thanks for your reply. I have a birth cert for my grandmother Genty Manley and it lists Robert Penfold as Laura's father. I have found a Robert Penfold and family on the 1881 census but can't seem to find them after that. Can't find Laura's birth or Laura and Leonard Small's marriage cert. Any info?
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Tuesday 03 November 09 12:02 GMT (UK)
I have a birth cert for my grandmother Genty Manley and it lists Robert Penfold as Laura's father.

I have Manleys in my tree, which one is Genty? Are you saying Robert Penfold is her father?

Sorry bit confused here (as normal LOL!!)
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Tuesday 03 November 09 18:16 GMT (UK)
Sorry for the confusion.
Genty Small's mother and father were Laura Penfold and Leonard Small. Laura's father as far as I can see was Robert Penfold who was married to Pricilla.
Genty Small married William Manley whose parents were Powers Manley and Britannia Roberts.
William and Genty were my grandparents.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Tuesday 03 November 09 19:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that. Now I understand!!

I have William Manley (if he was born 1900 in Crewkerne) in my tree too, my partner's Grandmother was a Manley.

As for Leonard Small is he the son of James and Ellen, b 1880 in Honiton?
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Wednesday 04 November 09 04:46 GMT (UK)
Hi, I'm glad I got it down right that time. It's hard to write. Yes  my Grandad William was born in 1900 in Crewkerne.
Re Leonard Small, that's my next task. But I can't seem to find the birth of Laura Penfold or Laura and Leonard's marriage cert.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Wednesday 04 November 09 07:47 GMT (UK)
On the 1911 census Leonard Small said he was was born about 1882 in Axminster, Laura born 1886 in Brixham.  They said they had been married about 7 years so they would have been married around 1903-04.

There isn't anything on FreeBMD but maybe you could look at the PRs for some of their stopping places. That's how I have found some of mine.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Trainette on Wednesday 04 November 09 09:21 GMT (UK)
Laura Penfold was definatly the daughter of EDward and Racheal
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Wednesday 04 November 09 18:24 GMT (UK)
thanks for that. I will look into it.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Trainette on Wednesday 04 November 09 18:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Minksi, sorry for my last very short reply, I used to have time for longer posts and more of them but these days I barely get chance to get on a forum. My granny was the daughter of Joe Penfold and Trainette Roberts, she died young and he remarried his cousin Caroline Penfold who was the daughter of Ocean and Henry Penfold, Robert Penfold was another brother. My grand father on the other side was the son of Joe Orchard and Martha Roberts, she too died young and he remarried a woman who was penfold by birth but who had been married to a gorja. I know your family, but wont mention names here. If you need any info ask, I might be able to help but there are other sites like Romanygenes and Romanyjib who are brilliant at helping with tracing ancestors.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Friday 06 November 09 06:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Trainette, what makes you so certain that Laura Penfold's parents were Edward and Rachael?
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Trainette on Tuesday 10 November 09 14:49 GMT (UK)
hi Minksi, its common knowledge, she was my grannies aunt so making her Joe Penfols sister, there were 22 children in that family. I dont know them all though.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Tuesday 10 November 09 17:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Trainette, I just think we are talking about 2 different Laura Penfolds
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Trainette on Tuesday 10 November 09 21:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Minksi, there might have been two Lauras but the one who married Lenard Small is the one I am talking about. They sometimes caled Laurel but  i think that was just the way travellers pronounced their words. You could ask Jimmy and Doris, they know a lot about family and especially some good old stories. 
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Minksi on Wednesday 11 November 09 04:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Trainette, I haven't spoken to Jimmy and Doris since I was about 9. It's a pity that I was never interested in this until after my mum's death and never asked any questions.  :'(
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: confused.com on Tuesday 29 December 09 20:24 GMT (UK)
Hello, I have just found this site, My grand father was called james Manley, his father, Powers Manley, have very little info but would love to find out more, but everything I try costs.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Wednesday 30 December 09 09:39 GMT (UK)
You might be related to this family then.

Was your grandfather James Manley born 1904 in Axminster?

If so, his father Powers Manley was married to Brittania Roberts.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: jaytoot on Wednesday 30 December 09 10:32 GMT (UK)
Try the website Romanyjib - it is free and has a lot of stuff listed for manley under the surname sub menu - including Powers Manley.

regards,

Jim
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: confused.com on Wednesday 30 December 09 12:29 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for replys, yes my grandad was james manley born in axminster, will try that site,  I have also found this pic on the net, think this may have been my great grandmother, but her name was Betty I believe, not Betsy.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: jaytoot on Wednesday 30 December 09 13:53 GMT (UK)
Hope romanyjib site helps and then you won't be so confused.....................maybe.

Don't forget that the IGI has free access to baptisms and marriages plus more. Also freebmd for births marriage and deaths.

And use the search facility on the top of this page ............enter manley in the search page and at the bottom deselect serarch all, then select just travelling people.
Good luck

Jim
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: confused.com on Wednesday 30 December 09 15:25 GMT (UK)
ok thanks Jim, that romanyjib is very interesting, will take a look at freebmd, see how i get on.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: Devonpilgrim on Wednesday 15 February 12 01:03 GMT (UK)
Hi
I have just joined as I saw your threads when I was looking up my family heritage. My Grandparents are Jimmy and Doris Manley. Great Grandson of William and Genty Manley. If any of you are still seeking info I'm sure my Grandparents may be able to help.
Title: Re: ROBERTS - Born in America??
Post by: devonblue on Wednesday 15 February 12 07:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Devonpilgrim,

Yes we are still looking into this family, any new info would be of great help. 

Personally I have not been able to devote much time to this for 2 years or so as my partner had a very nasty accident and I had to change to work  full time but I will look up all the stuff I have about this.