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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: abd107951 on Sunday 08 February 09 14:45 GMT (UK)
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looking for Lawson Scarnell fryer born about 1821? born hempnel in norfolk, his father may have been Christmas Fryer born 25 jan 1794, could anyone please look in either 1841 or 1851 census to find this family, i have found lawson in the 1881 census living in sothwark, st saviour surrey, can anyone help? Glen
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Hi Abd107951
They were living at The Green, Hempnall in the 1841 census
Christmas Fryer, Farmer, aged 45
Ann, aged 33
Lawson aged 15
Elizabeth aged 15
Rachel aged 10
Frederick aged 10.
Ben
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I found this in 1851 and thought it might be a possible.
HO107/1821/864/21 Bunwell, Norfolk
Charles Tubby, 45
Maria,44
Daniel, 17
Hannah, 16
Martha, 10
Elisha,8
Maria, 6
Charles, 4
Lawson Scarnell, 21, Journeyman Carpenter, Hempsall
His age is unclear, it might say 24.
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Thanks Ben i was not sure of Lawson's father name, it is rather unusual having a name like christmas, but thankyou for finding out the information, also is hempnel near norwich, and was it a very large town, thanks again glen
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Hempnall is a village about ten miles from Norwich.
It has a web site with some history.
www.hempnall.org
Jen
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thanks genjen it stands a very good chance of it being Lawson in 1851, the name Scarnell i think was taken from his mothers side of the family, but i am not sure of this, as i have his mother as Lucy Scarnell, but she died in 1833, so i think the anne in the 1841 census may have been Christmas second wife? glen
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Hi
The 1841 census said that Hempnall was in the Stratton district which is Long Stratton in South Norfolk on the Ipswich Road.
Ben
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Hi Glen,
There is a Tree for this family on A....... Not a lot of info and no census info.
They have Lucy Scarnell/Fryer as dying 19 April 1833.
There are 11 children born to Lucy and Christmas
Christmas Fryer's parents as ;
William (1756- and Bridget BECKETT
Christmas died 2 Feb 1874 Norwich, and was born 25 Dec. 1794 Hempnall ;D ;D ;D ;D Of Course ;)
Chris and Lucy married 20 October 1815 Hempnall
They have Lawson Fryer as marrying Ann Lawson.
Trish
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1861 RG(/315/140/37
9, Stoney Street, Southwark
Lawson Fryer, 35, General labourer, Norfolk
Ann M, 33, Charwoman, Bermondsey
William L, 9, "
Mary Ann, 6, "
Emma, 3 "
John A, 1, Southwark
Jen
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thank you Trish, i did see a marriage for william fryer and a Biddy becket, but was too long ago to pursue at the moment. Thankyou on the dates for Christmas ( i would never have guessed his birthdate was on that day :o only joking, and thankyou for lucy's details. glen
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wow cannot keep up with all this info, thanks jen, now i know a few more of his children thank you very much glen
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Hi Again;
Just checked some of this info;
No death for Christmas Freebmd 1874
Mariage is submitted on Familysearch, but there is the right Extracted marriage there also;
Christmas FRIER to Lucy SCARNALL 17 October 1814, St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth
Trish
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Still havent found death for Christmas but he and Ann are still in Hempnall 1851, 1861 and in 1871 census he is transcribed as CHRISTIANA ;D
So 1874 death looks possible.
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possible death on FreeBMD:
March 1874 Norwich, 4b/84
Friar Crismas, 79
or
Friar Crism_s, 79
Jen
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Hi
The Norfolk Marriage Index has
Christmas Frier and Lucy Scarnell marriage 17 Oct 1814 at Great Yarmouth
Christmas Fryer and Lucy Scarnell 20 Oct 1815 Hempnall
Christmas Fryer and Ann Rackham 10 March 1835 Hempnall
regards
yokel
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Well done Gen and Yokel ;D ;D ;D
I'm off to bed ::)
3.30 am here :P
Trish
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Hi
I dont think Hempnall is covered by the IGI as of yet. I just looked at the Hugh Wallis batch numbers site.
Ben
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Hi,
I am also researching Fryers in Hempnall at the moment. A William and Sarah who are living in the village in the 1841 census and a William and Elizabeth Fryer (late Fields) who are having children in Hempnall at the same time as William and Bridget. Anyone got any ideas on how and if they are connected to these other Fryers? I think the William married to Elizabeth Fields is the same one found living with Sarah in the 1841 census, but am not sure whether Sarah is his second wife or his widowed daughter in law (he is dead by the '51 so no help there) as there is a big age difference and a long time between Elizabeths death (1799) and William and Sarah's marriage in Alburgh in 1827.
Anyway for those of you researching Christmas and Lucy Fryer, there is an admon for Lucy on the Norfolk Sources website with a shaky signature from Christmas.
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I appear to be a direct descendant of John Fryer Hempnall Norfolk and then such as Christmas Fryer etc. My Gt Grandfather was William Lawson Fryer born in Bermondsey Workhouse 1852. His father was Lawson Fryer from Hempnall. My Grandad was John Fryer born Bermondsey 1882. His father William Lawson Fryer died Walthamstow 1940. Grandad Fryer 1882-1968 had a son John Fryer and he then had a son John Fryer. Grandad also had a son William Lawson Fryer (my Uncle Will) and my mother's brother. My cousin Allan Fryer did a tree but I do not have a copy tho my sister has a copy. Google "Walthamstow Memories" to see my work "Essex Boy" which has some Fryer photos attached in the picture gallery. My mother was Kathleen Fryer her father John Fryer (Grandad Fryer)...I can email more pics and info if contacted.
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I am a direct descendant of Chritmas Fryer, Lawson Fryer etc. contact me for some info. I have ordered the will of Lawson Scarnell from the National Archives. He died 1808 and was the father of Lucy Scarnell wife of Christmas Fryer. I had an Uncle Will ie William Lawson Fryer as part of this line.
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Hi Fryer
sorry this might be a bit late :-[
you can download Lawson Scarnell's will for free from here
http://www.norfolksources.norfolk.gov.uk/Overview.aspx?n=0&x=0
there's also a will which mentions Lucy Fryer, Lucy Scarnell and Christmas Fryer
regards
yokel
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Thanks Yokel. Would you like Fryer pics? I have William Lawson Fryer (My Uncle Will 1917-1985) and you can get John Fryer and Kathleen Fryer from "Walthamstow Memories" and my item "Essex Boy" text and photo gallery I attach a pic of Christmas Fryer's Great Grandson Jack Fryer seen here with wife Rose at Framlingham Castle Suffolk mid 1960s. Should that be Great Great Grandson Christmas Fryer was his Great Great Grandfather . I attach a picture of Jack Fryer Gret Great Grandson of Christmas Fryer of Hempnall outside 2 jessie Cottages Low Hall Lane Walthamstow London E17 in the early to mid 1960s
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Yokel or anybody! I have got the wills of of Lawson Scarnell of Hempnall and others such as Admon relating to Christmas and Lucy Fryer. Very hard to read! It seems Lawson left £600 or £150 each child? However, is there any way of finding where they lived ie the land that Lawson Scarnell Snr then Lawson Scarnell Jnr and Christmas Fryer all farmed? The will do not give the address so far as I can see. Surely, there must be some sort of registry or map showing the land plots, houses and who owned them. They are listed as living on "The Green" which is long coun try lane leading off Bussey's Loke and can be found on Google Earth. I have a bet that two period houses and a barn cheek to cheek before a patch of open ground on the left going towards Hempnall are the Scarnell/Fryer farms...Anyone????
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Yokel and any other of the tribes! I attach an RTF file (or am trying to) showing my lineage from Lawson Scarnell yeoman of Hempnall/Christmas Fryer of Hempnall and his wife Lucy nee Lucy Scarnell.
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Christmas Fryer of Hempnall seems to have gone to market in Norwich Friday/Saturday and come back offering his cart for freight/passengers from "The Lamb" Norwich at 3pm every Saturday this can be seen in the Trade Directories pre and post 1851 Norfolk Sources
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William Lawson Fryer born Walthamstow East London 1917 died Toronto Canada 1985 being the Great x 3 Grandson of Christmas Fryer of Hempnall and 4xGreat Grandson of Lawson Scarnell yeoman farmer of Hempnall. He was my mother's brother and my Uncle Will
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John (Jack) Fryer my mother's father and my Grandad Fryer born Bermondsey London 1882 died Langthorne Hospital Leytonstone London (of TB) 1968. He was the Great Grandson of Christmas Fryer of Hempnall Great Great Grandson of Lawson Scarnell Yeoman farmer of Hempnall died 1808. Seen here at St Saviour's Walthamstow East London 12th June 1948 when his daughter Kathleen Maude Fryer married my father Kenneth Harry Stevens
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Lillian Beatrice Fryer my mother's sister born Walthamstow East London 1915-1933 (died of TB) Buried Queen's Road Cemetery Walthamstow E17 East London. Daughter of Jack Fryer as above. Christmas Fryer was her Great Great Great Grandfather and Lawson Scarnell yeoman farmer of Hempnall 4x Great Grandfather. Her Grandfather was William Lawson Fryer born Bermondsey Workhouse 1852 died Chester Road Walthamstow 1940
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Kathleen M Fryer now Mrs Ken Stevens 3xGreat Grandaughter of Christmas Fryer 4x Great Grandaughter of Lawson Scarnell Fryer launching the 27,000 dwt bulk carrier Aegis Progress at Bilbao Spain 1971. (Owner Greek shipowner Captain N D Papalios of Aegis Shipping. My late father depicted Ken Stevens was a Director. My sister Pauline Stevens now Mrs Richard Clarke is shown also. (I think that's right all these Great Greats get me confused each time!)
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Wills and Probate relating to Lawson Scarnell Yeoman farmer Hempnall died 1808. Letters of Administration Lucy Fryer wife of Christmas Fryer farmer of Hempnall (1794-1874) Docs dated 1849 with Christmas Fryer's signature.
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More Christmas Fryer/ Lucy Fryer Wills and Probates
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Photo of my mother Kathleen Fryer born Walthamstow London E17 15th June 1926 died Homerton Hospital East London 1990 being 3xGt Grandaughter of Christmas Fryer 4xGreat Grandaughter of Lawson Scarnell yeoman farmer of Hempnall. Seen here aged about 17 in WREN'S uniform 1943.
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Navy Telegram regarding Wren Fryer 3xGreat Grandaughter of Christmas Fryer and 4xGreat Grandaughter of Lawson Scarnell Fryer yeoman farmer of Hempnall. The Navy wanted her to be a barSteward in the Officers' Mess (Wardroom) and she refused and left! They eventually persuaded her to return and she was put into other work not serving drinks to officers!!!!
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There is apparently a Tithe Map in the Norfolk Record Office for the 1840s showing Lawson Scarnell farming at Chestnut Tree Farm, Road Green, Hempnall...This is I think is Lawson Scarnell Junior...His father Lawson Scarnell died in 1808 and his will can be seen on-line at the Norfolk Record Office via NORCAT (But no longer NOAH)...Christmas Fryer married Lucy Scarnell daughter of Lawson Scarnell Senior and was my 4xGt Grandfather...He had a son Lawson Scarnell Fryer another "Gt" Grandfather of mine!...I think that the farm was possibly kept in the family by paying off three surviving children of Lawson Scarnell Senior their share in cash in 1849 (About £100 each???)..."The Green" I am told by Maureen Cubitt who wrote "The Book of Hempnall" meant in those days "Great Green" but which is now "Silver Green"...You can see Chestnut Tree Farm on Google Earth...There is a timber yard opposite also having the address Chestnut Tree Farm but whether this is connected to Lawson Scarnell Jnr as a carpenter....??? In the 1860s Christmas Fryer and his wife are living at Whortwell near Harleston Norfolk (1861 census) and in 1871 they are in Bull Court Norwich....Christmas died in 1874...
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I have located three Fryer and Scarnell farms in Hempnall if you are interested? William Fryer father of Christmas Fryer farmed Road Green Farm Hempnall although his wife Mary Fyer nee Bowles had the copyhold and it was her father that held the farm before ie Thomas Bowles...Christmas Fryer farmed a fam rented from Robert Riches and now known as Turkey Row...I think the old house is a holiday let called Turkey Row Cottage...Chestnut Tree Farm was farmed by Lawson Scarnell Junior..His father Lawson Scarnell died 1808 and his farm was sold in 1848-49 and you can see his will on Norfolk Resources...Chestnut Tree Farm was a copyhold farm so Lawson Scarnell Senior could not have left it in his will...Anyone know where Lawson Scarnell Senior Farmed?
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Chestnut Tree Farm Road Green Silver Green Hempnall was the farm of Lawson Scarnell died 1808 age 41 whose will can be found on Norfolk Sources website...His son Lawson Scarnell farmed this farm until his mother Sarah Scarnell died 1848 when the farm was sold...Then the farm was sold...The farm was 6 acres 3 roods and 11 perches..and paid £2.20 a year tithes...Christmas Fryer farmed at "Turkey Row" and the house may well be the present "Turkey Row Cottage"...His farm was 10 acres, 3 roods 12 perches...Christmas Fryer married Lucy Scarnell from Chestnut Tree Farm in 1814-1815...Christmas rented his farm from Robert Riches...The father of Christmas Fryer was William Fryer who married Mary Bowles daughter of Thomas Bowles who held Road Green farm Hempnall...Mary Bowles then held Rood Green Farm and William Fryer was then described as a Yeoman..Their son Thomas Fryer who was a wheelwright also held the farm for a while but he lived mostly in Great Yarmouth as a wheelwright...His will is on Norfolk Sources...Died 1849...Thomas Fryer had a family tomb in Great Yarmouth Old Cemetery...Road Green farm and Chestnut Tree Farms are still there...
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Chestnut Tree Farm Road Grfeen Siklver Green Hempnall now Dye's timber yard....Farmed by Lawson Scarnell..
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The Norfolk Chronicle of Saturday 24th September 1796 recounts that "Tuesday last was committed to the Castle by Sir T Beevor, Bart and R. Burroughs Esq Robert Thurston of Hempnall, charged with stealing, at divers times, a large quantity of apples, two dozen glass bottles, about two coombs (a coombe was a twelve stone sack) of oats and other articles the property of Lawson Scarnell.
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Apparently you can bequeath a copyhold farm in a will but I think now that Lawson Scarnell's farm was a Freehold and was sold and the money distributed to three surviving children and the children of Christmas Fryer and his deceased wife Lucy Fryer nee Scarnell..Hence the Admon etc signed by Christmas Fryer
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Robert (Bob) Fryer Born Hempnall about 1817 believed to have died in Great Yarmouth aged about 86. Wife Mary...His father was Robert Fryer son of William Fryer and his second wife Bridget Beckett...Robert Fryer senior was baptised in Hempnall Norfolk 16th March 1789 and is registered as having died in June 1867 in Great Yarmouth so may have been staying with Bob Fryer...Robert Fryer senior was buried in St Margaret's Hempnall..8th May 1867....Robert (Bob) Fryer became a wheel wright in Row 8 or Ferryboat Row Great Yarmouth and then later a wheelwright and blacksmith in Northgate Street Gt Yarmouth..Later he was living at 119-120 Caister Road Great Yarmouth..His son Robert Edward Fryer became an operator of horse drawn charabancs in Great Yarmouth..
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Turkey Row Cottage, Turkey Row, Road Green Silver Green/Lundy Green Hempnall believed to once have been the farmhouse of Christmas Fryer and his wife Lucy..They rented about ten acres from Robert Riches of Hempnall and were there in the 1841 census "on the Green" which in those days meant Broad Green but now is Turkey Row....
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Map showing Turkey Row and site of Christmas Fryer's farm...Chestnut Tree Farm the home of Lawson and Sarah Scarnell can be seen as can Road Green farm for a while farmed by Christmas Fryer's father William Fryer with his first wife Mary Fryer nee Bowles...Lawson Scarnell died 1808 and his will is on Norfolk Sources...Christmas Fryer's wife Lucy came from Chestnut Tree Farm..
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Chestnut Tree Farm from above today showing oblong shaped field and outbuildings with a sort of pool or pond in the fields. In 1842 it was owned by Sarah Scarnell died 1848 widow of Lawson Scarnell died 1808 and whose will is on Norfolk Sources...In 1842 the farm was 6 acres 3 roods 11 perches divided into 7 units plus house and buildings...
Moderator comment: GoogleEarth image removed.
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Tithes map of 1842 showing the fields farmed by Christmas and Lucy Fryer...They rented the house, buildings and land from Robert Riches of Hempnall...
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Robert (Bob) Fryer Born Hempnall 1817 died in Great Yarmouth June 1911 aged 95..
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I have photos of Lawson Scarnell Fryer and wife Ann Lawson Fryer nee Scarnell...But I have trouble posting them 'cos system says no!...The photos are 1876...So contact me...Barrie Stevens Gt Gt Grandson Lawson Scarnell Fryer..
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I have 1876 photos of Lawson Scarnell Fryer and wife Ann Maria Fryer nee Lawson my Gt Gt Grandparents so try and contact me...