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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: janine sargent on Saturday 07 February 09 22:37 GMT (UK)
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Hi I am new to this site. I wonder if anyone can help with advice or a look-up. I am keen to see the parish register for St.Thomas Dudley. A marriage 28th Aug 1836 Samuel Preston and Mary Cutler, where should I start? Thank you for your time.
Janine :)
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The local history centre is as good a place as any.
http://www.dudley.gov.uk/leisure-and-culture/local-history--heritage/archive-and-local-history/researching-your-family-history
http://www.dudley.gov.uk/leisure-and-culture/local-history--heritage/archive-and-local-history/fees-and-charges-200809
Pauline
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Thank you, will plan a visit soon.
Janine
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
Are you hoping to find info about their fathers from the marriage entry?
Do you know that fathers names were not shown on marriage entries prior to 1.7.1837
Witnesses names will be shown
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Hello,
I was not sure what I would find on the parish register, but I am also not sure where else to go. I know my ancestor was born in 1815 and have found what I think is his christening in Oldbury. All my other relatives are in and around Oldbury, but the only marriage I can find for Samuel Preston and Mary Cutler is in St Thomas Dudley. I thought it was worth a look and I know witnesses are sometimes parents. I also think his father is Joseph preston and mother Phoebe Onions. Although I cannot confirm any of this as it is from the igi site. Past experience has been very reliable but I know it has to be proved! Any ideas are very welcome. :D
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the dudley parish registers are in
Worcestershire History Centre
www.worcestershire.gov.uk
Trinity St
Worcester, WR1 2PW
01905 765922
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Hi Janine, many people from Oldbury would be either Baptised or Married at Dudley St Thomas, it is not that far away. Back in 1815 there was no Parish Church in Oldbury, the nearest would have been Halesowen, Rowley Regis or Dudley. HTH from linell.
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:D Hello Linell,
Thank you. I am feeling much more confident about my searches.
Janine
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Hi Janine, your marriage for Samuel and Mary is on the IGI, 28.8.1836 St Thomas Dudley. If you send a cheque (think it is about £3.00) to Dudley Archives at Coseley they will send you a print out from the Parish Register. Their phone no is 01384 812770. Good luck from linell.
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Hi Linell,
I am planning a visit to Coseley as I live in Dudley! Thank you for your help. ;D
Janine
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Hi, Janine. Lucky you living in Dudley, where the clue to our family breakthrough is held!! We've visited Dudley several years ago and found some records that helped us, but were unable to find my husbands's G G Grandfather's baptism. His siblings' baptism records, even death records(as children), are there, but not his baptism. I wonder if I could be cheeky enough to ask you to check behind us next time you're over there? When we visited, we were well organised, even booked to stay overnight to give us plenty of time to search, but in the end the office was closing just as we realised we needed to search again.
If it's too much, I quite understand, but I am unable, due to health issues, to travel as I used to and this would help me so much if you can.
Just let me know if its possible and I'll post some details for you here. The Surname is McCarrick, so it's not a Smith/Jones kind of challenge. Here's hoping!! I've got everything crossed ....hope I don't fall over!!!! Best regards, Lynne McCarrick
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Hi Linell
I have ancestors who married in St. Thomas, Dudley, both were born Kinver, Staffordshire. I had assumed they lived in Dudley around the 1835 marriage, but after reading your message on Oldbury, I wondered if St. Thomas was the nearest church for Kinver.
Heather
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Hi Heather, no St Thomas is not the nearest Church to Kinver. They may have gone off and Married there, for some reason? Our Ancestors did go off and Marry further away if they were trying to conceal the fact that they were Marrying, maybe a pregnancy, or Cousins Marrying, or perhaps, they already lived as man and wife and didn't want anyone to know they weren't Married in the first place. What are the names, have you found them on the 1841 Census? Best Wishes from Linell.
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Hi Linell
This is rather a mystery. Too long a story to put on here!!
The 1835 m gives names as John Hemmings and Eliz. Hartland, bot signed with an 'x'
After that no census, b,m,d records until I discovered the name as Yeomans. Then I found them on census 1851-1891 and b,m,d's for family. The only census I have not found them on is 1841.
Eliz. was about 8yrs older than John, she was b. approx 1807 and John approx. 1815. So maybe there is something in them marrying in Dudley, I am sure the 1851 census has them in Staffordshire.
Thanks,
Heather
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Hi Heather, so did John change his name from Hemmings to Yeomans? I found them on some of the Census's, looks as though he was born and bread in Kinver, which is as you say in Staffordshire, but on the boarder of Worcestershire. I have the 1841 Census disc for Kinver. I had a look for them, they are probably there but it is so difficult to read some of the names. I did find an Allender Family in Kinver in 1841 and 1851 living at The Hyde, John and Ann Allender, both aged 40, wonder if they were connected to Eliza Allender who is in the Yeoman household in 1851? Do you know who the Marriage Witnesses were to the Marriage of John and Elizabeth? Was Elizabeth a Widow when she Married John? Best Wishes from Linell.
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Hi Linell, The name has not been legally changed as far as I know. I don't know if, due to both signing the parish marriage in 1835 with an 'x', whether this was wrong, perhaps a dialect mis-pronunciation. Best maid is Mary Bennitt and Best Man is Thos. (not sure of handwriting on this one) Alen? Cert. gives John as Bachelor and Eliz. as Spinster and states both are of this parish (Dudley). L Booker or Rooker is the Vicar.
John Yeomans b1847, (the son) married twice in England under that name, but when he came to Scotland in 1890, his name is George Hemmings (John had a bro. Geo who died in infancy, John was about 5yrs when his bro. died).
Hope you don't mind me asking, do you have Tipton 1841 in your collection? I have a copy of enum. dist 12, pge 15 & 16. I only recently noticed at top of p15, there is a Betsey Hartland aged 6mths, would like to have details on rest of her family who will be on p14. If you have this and don't mind me asking, I'd greatly appreciate your help.
Thanks
Heather
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Hi Heather, the X on the Marriage Entry is where they made their mark, they couldn't read or write. Would be an idea to try and track down Mary Bennett and see where she lived, and if she was related in some way. Thomas Allen was a Church Warden and is on a lot of Dudley Marriage Entries for that time period.
Funny that both John and his son changed their names, you could of course call yourself what you liked back then, there were no laws against it, it was quite common, more so than we think.
Willl see if I can find Betsey Hartland in Tipton and get back to you. Best Wishes from Linell.
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Hi Heather, I found Betsey, John and Elizabeth Yeomans are on page 15:-
Dudley Road Tipton
Simon Hartland 36 Boatman Yes
Catherine 28 Yes
Hannah Hartland 45 Yes
Joseph 15 Coal Miner
Susannah 14
Sampson 13
Comfort 10
Betsey 6 months
Cresswells Wood Tipton (think it is Cresswell?)
John Yeomans 55 Labourer No
Elizabeth Yeomans 45 No
Hannah 15
Thomas 12
Elizabeth 8
Abraham Hartland 30 Labourer Yes
Hannah 35
Elizabeth 13
Samuel 11
Abraham 9
Sarah 10
Mary Ann 2
Looks as though Elizabeth came from Tipton, as all the Hartland family seem to be there, also found a Thomas and Maria Hartland ages 43 and 42 with lots of children on another page in Tipton. HTH from Linell.
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Thanks for that Linell.
John & Elizabeth Yeomans - took a note of, don't know yet if they are connected, though the fact that Hartland and Yeomans are neighbours I suspect there must be some connection.
Looking for a John aged approx 27 and Eliz aged approx 34 in 1841. From census records, it would appear they were married approx 9yrs before they had any children, unless they lost a lot of babies prior to then.
The name change is a puzzle. Firstly father John is married (1835) as John Hemmings then every record thereafter (except 1841, haven't found them in 1841 yet) his name is John Yeomans, then the son born in England and his 2 x marr as John Yeomans, then at the age of 43 becomes George Hemmings in Scotland. Don't expect to ever solve this one!
Heather
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Hi Heather, surely John and Elizabeth in Tipton must be John's parents? That is how I read it. I think you need to trace the family back as far as you can and see where the Hemmings name fits in? Could be one of the Grannies? I would think that John and Elizabeth the younger, are probably in Kinver, when I looked at the 1841 Images some of the names were unreadable. Good luck with the searching, best wishes from Linell.
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Forgot to add that if Elizabeth Hartland was from Tipton, which looks as though she was, that would have been why they Married at Dudley?
Linell.
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Hi Linell, thanks for all your help and tips. I am hoping that the elder John/Eliz. are John's parents. I have still to order John's death cert., (got a few english ones to order, can't afford them all at once), and hopefully that will give his father as John, then I can see what else I can find out.
Thanks again Linell
Heather
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I noticed 'Hemmy' that you are researching John Yeomans who changed his name to George Hemmings.
He married 3 times Jane Lewis, Elizabeth Oliver and then her sister Emma Oliver, and he had at least 5 children from the first 2 marriages.
Have still yet to find out why he changed his name to George Hemmings.
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Hi Blackmax
I have a copy of the 3 marriages, hubby is descended from the 1st (Jane Lewis). I have a copy of the lair no. of Geo.'s grave, still to visit it though.
Are you doing research on this family?
Cheers
Heather
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Ernest George Oliver Hemmings descended from Elizabeth Oliver and John Yeomans (George Hemmings), married my Grandaunt Jeanie Hunter, this is my line of research.