RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: failsafe on Saturday 07 February 09 21:48 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
I'm trying to fathom out whether one of my rellies lived at 123 Crescent Rd,
Crumpsall, Manchester
It appears in 1925 & 1942
Can anyone help me with this please?
Thanks for reading
failsafe
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Presume you mean 1943 - your subject says 1843
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That address is on my grandfathers death cert. I think it is Crumpsall hospital, now North Manchester General
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100% correct Pathway.
Migky ;)
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Hi all
Date should be 1943, my mistake.
I know that Crumpsall had an Infirmary during this time, but would the workhouse have still been there?
failsafe
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Hi all
I'm trying to fathom out whether one of my rellies lived at 123 Crescent Rd,
Crumpsall, Manchester
It appears in 1925 & 1942
Can anyone help me with this please?
Thanks for reading
failsafe
Hi Failsafe
I think this is Crumpsall Hosital?
I seem to remember my dads birth certificate in 1938 has that address on it.
I will have a look later for you, its filed in mums file upstairs
Gaille
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Morning all,
The workhouse site became the hospital. It had a lot of different names over the early 20th century, Here is a paragraph from the Manchester local studies site:
"By 1930 the Manchester Union Workhouse had become known as Crumpsall Institution. It was renamed Park House Hospital in 1939, and with the introduction of the National Health Services in 1948, became Springfield Hospital. The Infirmary later became known as Crumpsall Hospital. In 1972 the Springfield Hospital and Crumpsall Hospital amalgamated with Delaunay's Hospital to form Manchester General Hospital." from http://www.rootschat.com/links/05it/
My gt-grandmother's Death cert from 1923 was also 123 Crescent Rd. At that time it was a mental institution.
:) Barbara
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Hi all
I'm trying to fathom out whether one of my rellies lived at 123 Crescent Rd,
Crumpsall, Manchester
It appears in 1925 & 1942
Can anyone help me with this please?
Thanks for reading
failsafe
Hi Failsafe
I think this is Crumpsall Hosital?
I seem to remember my dads birth certificate in 1938 has that address on it.
I will have a look later for you, its filed in mums file upstairs
Gaille
I checked Dads birth cert & it has 123 Crescent Road - if irts a Birth cert you have look under the mothers name - the address they actually lived at should be there.
Gaille
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Hi, failsafe,
My mother told me I was born in, what was 1944, Crumpsall Hospital. On my Birth Certificate it says "When and Where Born."
72 Delaunay's Road.
I don't know whether this helps or adds to the confusion.
Cheers,
Terry.
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This is the strange thing I have 2 death certs 1 for my grandparents who died there in 1925, 1942 and one of my mothers children was born there, but has a different home address. while 'visiting' 123 Crescent Rd and the child was whisked away to Swinton and Pendlebury Hospital where she died aged 3 months. Just wondered with these dates would it have been the workhouse
or infirmary that they were at
failsafe
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This is the strange thing I have 2 death certs 1 for my grandparents who died there in 1925, 1942 and one of my mothers children was born there, but has a different home address. while 'visiting' 123 Crescent Rd and the child was whisked away to Swinton and Pendlebury Hospital where she died aged 3 months. Just wondered with these dates would it have been the workhouse
or infirmary that they were at
failsafe
Failsafe,
The child may have been taken orginaly into Crumpsall Hospital and then sent to Pendlebury for further treatment if she was seriously ill.
If it was a small child then they would have sent it to Pendlebury as Pendlebury is a specialist Childrens Hospital ................ which my family have seen a LOT of this last year - my nephew was taken in there last year and has spent most of the last year in & out of Intensive care and the Renal unit :(
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/hospitalrecords/details.asp?id=1508&page=51
Gaille
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Hi, failsafe,
My mother told me I was born in, what was 1944, Crumpsall Hospital. On my Birth Certificate it says "When and Where Born."
72 Delaunay's Road.
I don't know whether this helps or adds to the confusion.
Cheers,
Terry.
No confusion LOL
North Manchester Hospital - Crumpsall hospital as it was known is Massive - and its address has been both Crescent Road AND Delaunay's Road .
I think if I remember right from the one & only time i went there that Maternity unit is off Delaunhays rd.
http://www.nhs.uk/servicedirectories/Pages/Hospital.aspx?id=RW602
(address shows as Delaunays Rd)
Gaille
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Hi
This link should help with dates http://www.institutions.org.uk/workhouses/england/lancs/manchester_workhouse.htm
Delaunays Road was so named after my Mothers Family, as was the original Poor Law Institution.
More on the Family can be found here http://chimleys.tribalpages.com
Debbie
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Thanks Gaille for the link
failsafe ;)
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Hi Debbie
Thanks for that info. So your'e famous, if you have a pc tablet can you
send me your autograph ;D ;D ;D
failsafe
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HI
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Hi everyone I want to say a big thank you to you, I have just recieved my mam and dads birth certificates 3 days ago and was a bit puzzeld by the address's on them till I have just seen the post on this page I didnt think my family came from crumpsall once again THANK YOU. JO :)
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Hi & welcome JO, well now you know we all are. If you have any other questions or need further help on Manchester, start a new thread and ask away.
Migky ;)
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Thank you for your welcome, Ive done a few general searches before on google about street names trying to find out where family came from and its brought me to this site a few times, Ive searched for Ashley lane Nicholas street which I believe through this site is now Naples street Collyhurst its been so helpfull thanks again. :)
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Welcome on board
We all try and be very helpful, and as MIGKY says just post away
failsafe
:D
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Thank you for your welcome, Ive done a few general searches before on google about street names trying to find out where family came from and its brought me to this site a few times, Ive searched for Ashley lane Nicholas street which I believe through this site is now Naples street Collyhurst its been so helpfull thanks again. :)
Try here for some photos of the streets you mention
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/
This site has been a bit poorly just recently so you may have to keep coming back to it, I am sure the council IT people will fix it soon
Ken
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Thanks for posting, I have been on this site I am always popping on there the site has really been slow for a few days, I am trying to get on there to find a Tebbutt Street in Collyhurst I will just keep trying, I have found this street on the google map but its just a car park on oneside and grass on the other I need to get a old Collyhurst map can you tell me if the old ordnance survey maps are any use?. Thanks JO.
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Hi Jo
Tebbutt Street and Lower Tebbutt Street were much longer than they are today, Now all gone, during the slum clearance of the 60's & 70's
To see them you would need to purchase the
Manchester NE 1891 Godfrey Map 104.07
Ken
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http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/acatalog/Manchester___Salford__Central_area_.html
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Here it is on a 1927 map, nothing like as informative as the Godfrey one, but its the only one I have thats out of copyright and therefore postable online
You can see Ashley St on the left hand side too, which became Aspin Lane, and Nicholas St/Naples St. Next to the famous Angel St that we were talking about on another thread
We've wandered off the Crescent Rd topic a wee bit - sorry Failsafe, hope you don't mind
:) Barbara
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Don't mind one bit.
purpose is to help others
failsafe ;)
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I would really like to say Thank you, you are all gems I appreciate everything you have done for me JO :D
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I keep reading this thread because I know my grandfather (and subsequently an Uncle) had a Butcher's Shop at the bottom end of Cresent Road and I have previously been sent photos of the shop to which my cousin replied 'That's Dad's Van' !!!!!!!!!!
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Wouldn't mind a pic of the van if you dont mind mummsie
failsafe
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What i was wondering was that it was not only an infirmary, but a workhouse
and this being so could my ancestors have been visiting someone in the workhouse?
failsafe
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Don't think people would want to stay over night while visiting people in a workhouse?
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Ha Ha MIGKY
who said anything about staying overnight
failsafe
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Hello All.
I have just aquired my mothers Birth Certificate for 1920. 123 Crescent road is her place of birth. There is no father on the certificate but the mother lived in Burnley. Could this be a poorhouse/workhouse? My mother always stated she was an orphan. I am a newbee to this site so please be kind.
Regards, Swine.
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Hi Swine
More than likely it was the hospital, and not the poorhouse.
Hope this is of use to you
failsafe :o
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Hi Swine
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
123 Crescent Road is now North Manchester General Hospital, you will find a good read here http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Manchester/Manchester.shtml and also an aerial photo taken in the 1920's
Regards
Ken
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Hi.
Thanks failsafe for your contribution, however, the link provided by mancsman deems from 1904 all Birth certificates were issued with the address 123 Crescent Road to protect them from disadvantage in later life. So she was probably in the workhouse in 1920 when my mother was born. Her address in Burnley turns out to be a boarding house, so the trail goes dead, for now.
Would there be records of inmates at this time 1920?? and would they be available?.
Regards, Bernard.
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Hi Bernard
Couple of sites to look at, which may answer your question
http://www.manchester.gov.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?categoryID=448&documentID=3812&pageNumber=4
http://www.manchester-family-history-research.co.uk/new_page_5.htm
Ken
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Thanks for the second site Ken! Lots of gory reading there!!
I may now be able to find a birth date for my great aunt Kathleen Boshell,[known as Kit] who died 28th Dec.1927 at 123, Crescent Road. She was a nursing sister, and 'lived in' at Holland Road.
She was only 42 and unmarried. I have been unable to find her birth in Dublin circa 1885. She is in the 1911 Dublin census as Kate, aged 26.
[There is another thread about this on the Dublin page. Sorry I don't know how to link them, probably not necessary here!]
Kooky
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Just to add...
Death certificate arrived this morning, date 1966, address 223 Crescent Road, Crumpsall. Not 123!
There seems to be a lot of confusion as the modern North Manchester Hosp is off Delauneys Road, but the old Springfield Hospital, previously Park Hospital, Previously Crumpsall Workhouse, was on Crescent Road. Different sites completely. My relative's cause of death suggests that she was in a hospital, or a geriatric nursing hospital, at the time.
Just the address at 223, not 123, is intriguing!
Hilary
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Found this on the Workhouse website
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?Manchester/Manchester.shtml
123 was the workhouse:
"From 1904, to protect them from disadvantage in later life, the birth certificates for those born in the workhouse gave its address just as 123 (later 223) Crescent Road, Crumpsall."
Also on another site, a lady who was a nurse at 223 Crescent Road, the old Crumpsall Hospital. Although the hospital was combined with the others to become the North Manchester, it is not on the same site as the present day North Manchester Hospital on Delaunies Road (though most of you had worked this out already, of course!)
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I worked at Crumpsall Hospital in the late 1950`s and just a few years or so ago had to go with my husband there, only now it is called North Manchester .It is the same building on the same site as in the 1950`s.There were lots of other buildings as well, The Geriatric Hospital Springfield, the Psychiatric wards which were seperate and then the old workhouse site. The mortuary was just opposite he main entrance, on the other side of the road going through the site. Matron`s office was just to the left of the main entrance. Al built of the same stripey brick with lots of little tower or turrets on the corners .Has it been altered since we were there last?Viktoria.
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Thanks, Viktoria. I've been looking at it on Google Earth, the new North Manchester Hospital is off Delauneys, the Crescent Road site appears to be a school - I can see netball courts etc! I might have a drive up there next week.
I was wondering whether, in 1966 when my relative died age 85, 223 Crescent Road was a geriatric hospital? She had always lived in Salford, and we can't really understand how she ended up in Crumpsall!
Best wishes, Hilary
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Hi
Kelly's 1953/4 has no 123 Crescent Road, goes from111, Major, Wm, to Crumpsall Crescent, to St Anne's (R C) church, to St Anne's (R C0 school, and Presbytery, to Crescent Avenue, to 147 Frank Roberts.
But 223 has:
223 Springfield Hospital ( Springfield & Swinton Hospital Management Committee)
223 Crumpsall Hospital (North Manchester Management Committee)
Farrar, Alfrd, pig breeder (Clarkesville)
Hebrew Old Congregational Burial Ground!
Then it turns round and goes down the other side of the road.
Best wishes
Emms
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PS
Also, by then, 72 Delaunay's Road has:
(Jumps from 62, across Birch Road, to:
72 Crumpsall Hospital Park House (H Ellis master).
Good night
Emms
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Thanks, Emms.
I think that clears things up for me. We'll never know why she ended up in Crumpsall and we'll have to assume that she was taken there simply because there was a bed available at the time. But it does seem that it was a hospital that would cater more specifically for an elderly lady who was terminally ill, so perhaps it was a good move for her.
Thankyou to everyone on the thread!
Hilary
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Hi, on my aunt`s death cert she is stated as dying at 123 Crescent Road, she was 31 and died from tuberculosis in 1931. On my grandmother`s death cert it also says 123 Crescent Road, she was 67 and died from complications following a perforated gall bladder . In 1941 a cousin died from leukaemia aged 39 also at 123 Crescent Road so it was not a hospital or ward specialising in one illness.My grandfather died in1946 of "senility" and was in Delauney`s the address on the death cert is 72 Delauney`s Road.His daughter- my aunt died in North Manchester General Hospital. Crumpsall, according to her death cert, of cancer and heart failure. I`m still puzzled. Delauney`s Road was where the policeman was killed when raiding a suspected terrorist house, it is a residential road and the hospital drive goes off to the right. Crescent Road is a long long winding road.There is a very old cemetery on the hill, a Jewish cemetery I think. It used to look like a scene from Dickens with the blackened buildings silhouetted against the sky and the gravestones at all angles. Brrr! Viktoria.
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123 and 223 seem to be the same place, but at one time there seem to have been three different hospitals, one at Delauney Road and the other two both seem to have been on Crumpsall Road. My best guess is that the site at Delauneys Road grew in importance and became the main hospital with the accident and emergency and eventually, sometime in the 70s perhaps, the Crumpsall Road hospital was gradually wound down and closed. A similar thing happened in Salford, Ladywell hospital eventually became more of an old people's hospital with no accident and emergency, and fairly recently (10 years or so) it was finally closed and sold to become a shopping centre!
I am guessing. Of course, the patients would have had all sorts of complaints, but the hospital gradually treats the ill rather than the critical and the emergencies. Just my guess - and I am unlikely to research it further as I have now found out where our relative died and that it was a hospital.
Best wishes, Hilary
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PS! On Google Earth I can see the rather rocky looking ground at the end of the road. If that is where the Jewish cemetery is, I can imagine how spooky it looked! I'll have a look around there in the next couple of weeks.
Hilary
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Hi Just another thought from what you said. I don't know the Crumpsall Hospital, but you mentioned one site being private houses.
It doesn't rule it out being part of the hospital.
I lived in rooms in a terraced hpoiuse when I first came here, and at different times, the buildings - two houses together had been used as different departments of the hospital nearby.,
I've been told it was once used for maternity and also has been used for rlderly care - in fact I've seen it in directories. It was also used for some kind of surgery at one stage.
Iused to live back tio back with this pace, and there was an upstairs back window which was an unusual shape - large but blocked in.
When I moved in I discovered that this was a large bed sit which has once been used as an operating theatre! There was still evidence in that rather than skirting boards, there was a concrete curved section between the floor and the ceilingv- so that it could be sluiced out!
Also, the basement was only half depth and there was water, but in it were old basketweave bath chairs and old glass bottles obviously intended for rather personal use!
So, the houses actually could have been used by the hospital!
Just a thought!
Best wishes
Emms
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Hi Again
Just another little thought. Could Street renumbering come into the equation somewhere? I'm sure the locals will know!
Emms
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I'll try and find a local who is old enough to know! And when I do, I'll let you all know what I discover!
Thanks a lot,
Hilary
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Hi emstheight, your description of the contents of the place you lived in reminded me of what was in the cellars at Crumpsall Hosp. in the 1950`s when I was on the prem baby unit. I used to get the bus home on Delauney`s Road and had to walk quite a long way along the main corridor and then double back and do the same journey back the way I had come outside the building. I had not much time to get the once an hour bus so used a short cut by leaving the building via one of the little "turrets" ( this was not allowed.) I did this once only to find the door to the outside was locked so I had to go back up stairs to the entrance to the turret back to the main corridor well someone had locked that too,the only way out was through the cellars.It was dark, there were funny beds with restraints and strait jackets attached for restraining mentally ill people I suppose , although this was not the psychiatric unit - but worst of all were the seemingly HUNDREDS of feral cats living below the gratings covering the central heating pipes. They started ganging up--well that`s what it seemed like,making dreadful unearthly miaows. Finally I found a door not locked ,just near Matron`s office ,so I`d had to walk from the furthest part of the building nearest Delauneys Road in the cellars to the main entrance . There was very poor lighting just "bulkhead " lights . Horrible. On another occasion (on 24th December 1958 )I was walking to get the bus and it was foggy ,a real pea-souper so thick sounds were distorted and I heard what sounded like an abandoned new-born baby in the overgrown bushes. I naturally investigated . It was two B----Y tom cats staring each other out but it really sounded like a tiny distressed baby.Cheerio . Viktoria.
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I think you two should write the book - or even the film!
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The book might be too scary for Rootschat, never name the film!
I've never explained the noises I heard!
By the way, you said there was equipment for tying pople down, etc but could this have been for other reasons than a mental hospital. Didn't they do this for all sorts of gory proceedures before anaesthetics became more sophisticated?
Viktoria, that basement sounds fascinating! Really scary though!
Time for tea!
Emms
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Yes they did and although Queen Victoria (no relation!)had anaesthetic for one confinement I`m not sure of the date and in any case the lower classes would probably not have it even for operations, so the restraints could have been for amputations etc. It served me right because it was not allowed to enter or leave the building via the turret doors but I`d have had to wait about 55 mins for the next bus on Delauneys Road to where I lived and it was winter and my son was only 18 months old and with his grandma whilst I did afternoon shifts on the prem baby unit.I wanted to get home to him.I never understood why those doors were open at all.I wonder how long the equipment had been abandoned down there.Cheerio Viktoria.
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My wife's grt granddad's place of death was also given as no 123 in Dec 1931.
This address didn't mean anything to us so I looked it up in the nearest Kelly's I could find (1927).
The odd numbered houses fade out after no 121 but there are various un-numbered buildings beyond that.
The next building past 121 was described as "Manchester Poor Law Institution (The Lodge)". With the abolition of the Poor Laws in 1930 no doubt it's use changed after that.
Incidentally, the informant was given as J O Schofield, occupier. Anyone else come across him?
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I have just seen this post and hope I can add some value.
My credentials for doing so are as follows, I was born in 1953 in Crumpsall Hospital, my eldest son was laos born there in 1979. My mother sadly died in Springfield Hospital and I lived ( Birch Road ) and worked around all that area in the 70's and early 80's.
As previously stated , what is now North Manchester General Hospital is an amalgam of 3 Hospitals on the same site. Springfield Hospital ( which was a mental instituition and earlier the workhouse ) Delauneys Hospital ( geriatric ) and Crumpsall Hospital ( A&E, maternity, general ) The whole site is loosely linked with various other buildings of different ages although the bulk of it is Victorian.
It is bounded by Delauneys Road on the North and east and Crescent Road on the south and west. It used to be possible to drive from Delauneys road up into the various Hospitals and then exit on a drive to Crescent road.
There was I believe a lodge at the bottom of the drive at the Crescent road Junction which was previously the workhouse Masters residence and would have later become the address used in the subject of this post ( 123 Crescent Road ) It was alittle isolated and a small field was adjacent before coming to the aforementioned farm, Clarkesville ( which we knew as Farrar's Farm. this had a small drive leading up to the Jewish cemetery adajacent to Springfield Hospital.
I would think that the main Hospital used the 72 delauneys road address as its "clearing house " as it too had a similar lodge building at the entrance just down from Birch Road.
If there is any other explanations I can possibly help with, let me know.
The Policeman who was killed was not on Delauneys road, but Crumpsall Lane.
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Thanks Ted, I think that the fact that "my" certificate is as recent as 1966 complicated the issue slightly as hospitals are for ever evolving and, whilst 223, the Crescent Road site, might not have been a geriatric hospital in earlier years, it might have been so in 1966.
Hilary
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Hi Hilary, Ted, All.
Thank you for all the fascinating new input! How have I missed all the replies since I posted? Fascinating reading though.
Thank you again!
Emms
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???new to this website but would just like to add my twopenneth to the comments made on the subject of 123 Crescent Rd. although its a little late. Following up my family tree I came across my paternal grandfathers death cert. with the place of death as Crescent Rd. as he lived in Gorton it
puzzled me and I thought maybe he was visiting a friend and died there, but no it appears it is the old poorhouse or known as the workhouse. I visited the site only to find a large Catholic church is now standing on the site. He apparently died of cancer and maybe at the time of his death (1943) i can only presume they were so poor that is were he ended up. My father (his son) did not know about this and his other two sons were away in the armed services at the time. It did not have the name of the workhouse on the death cert. just the address. The Crumpsall hospital was on Delaughneys road where most of the babies were born. My mother knew that hospital well as she lost two babies in there
and used to say how bad it was in the l930's.
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Hi rosema
Welcome to rootschat ;)
123 Crescent Road was the address from 1904 of Crumpsall hospital, but was the Poor/workhouse from 1855.
With the exception of the Prestwich Union Workhouse which was next door all of the workhouse buildings are still intact, so not sure what you mean by Catholic Church unless you have a different address on the death cert, my own grandfather was recorded as dying at 123 Crescent Road in 1942
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Hi Mancsman, thanks for the post. Just wanted to say I had been to Crescent Road searching for l23
as this address was on my grandfathers death cert. As you turn into the road on the left is where l23 (the building referred to on the cert.once stood). I checked all the numbers on the road and this is the site where l23 stood. A catholic church now stands on the site. I do not know when this was built but I did ask one or two people living there about the previous building that was there, but obviously they were fairly new to the area. On my grandfather's death cert. (dated 13th May 1943 it just gives the cause of death and the address as 123 Crescent Road Crumpsall, and as I mentioned because he lived at Vernon Street Gorton, I had to investigate why this was where he died. I first thought he might have been visiting a friend in Crumpsall and died there (that was before I was shocked to learn of the poorhouse/workhouse ethic. He was a retired plumbing engineer and also a lay-preacher in the church so I am still in the dark about the origins of his placement there.
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No it is not the Church but I see why you thought that
With new homes being built the numbers moved, 123 became 223 in the end
Have a read of this
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Manchester/
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Would anyone know if 123 Crescent Road was a Mental Institution in 1941? I have an ancestor Mary Alice Farnsworth dying there in 1941 of Senility. But then in those days Senility could have been seen as "insanity" perhaps.
Regards,
Janice Nevill.
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Hi,
I have a John Miller on my tree who died at 123, Crescent Rd, Crumpsall in 1928....I presume the hospital. From his probate records, instead of leaving his money to his family he left it to Edward Donald Brookes, company secretary. Could he be connected to the hospital as I can't find any connection to the family ?
Thanks, Pat
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123 Cresent Rd, was the work house,..there was no Cresent Rd...the work house was on Delaunay Rd..they used the Crescent Rd address on birth certificates..so it did not hold them back in the future... google the history, it,s very intresting read
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Thanks. I have read quite a lot about it. This is just another little mystery. He had over £100 so wasn't destitute. I just wondered if they had to will their money , if they went in to die....
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123 Cresent Rd, was the work house,..there was no Cresent Rd...the work house was on Delaunay Rd..they used the Crescent Rd address on birth certificates..so it did not hold them back in the future... google the history, it,s very intresting read
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Thanks.
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Pat, your rellie hasn't necessarily left his money to Edward Donald Brookes. The probate record just states that probate was granted to Mr Brookes, which means that he became the person responsible for the Will being acted on correctly. He might not have been a beneficiary at all. You would have to send for a copy of the actual Will to be certain.
https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate/family-history
Scroll down to Leeds Probate Registry and Form PA1S I think a copy Will is still £6
Hope that helps
:) Barbara
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Thanks Barbara,
That's very helpful. My daughter has found a link....maybe something to do with the house , and he might be a solicitor. We didn't think of that...Pat
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Hi, for anyone else's information.....Edward Donald Brookes was a business liquidator for solicitors.....Wilfred C. Rogerson, 5, John Dalton St Manchester. From the London Gazette, London 1927, he liquidated Marlborough Engineering Co., Salford, Manchester.
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My father in law was born at 123 Crescent Road, Crumpsall in 1941 ...
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This has helped me, I couldn't understand why 2 distant relative could have died in the same place in 1938 and 1943. So take it 123, Cresent Road would have been a Hospital then?
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This has helped me, I couldn't understand why 2 distant relative could have died in the same place in 1938 and 1943. So take it 123, Cresent Road would have been a Hospital then?
Yes, it was originally a workhouse and became the hospital. See
http://www.workhouses.org.uk/Manchester/
(scroll down to Crumpsall)