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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: lizb on Friday 06 February 09 21:51 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace the family of one of my ancestors, Elizabeth Liffen.
ELizabeth was born in Norfolk (per 1851 and 1861 census) but moved to London and in 1836 married Samuel Howe. They continued to live in LOndon but their son Samuel, who was born in July 1847, gives his place of birth as Old Catton, Norfolk.
I have previously corresponded with someone at the Old Catton family history society who was unable to find any trace of Samuel or Elizabeth in Old Catton.
However, in the 1841 census there is a Sarah Liffen living in Catton. So I am assuming that SArah was ELizbeth's mother and that ELizabeth was visiting her when her son was born.
I have not been able to establish anything else about the family. I am aware that the LIffen family originated in Norfolk and Suffolk, but this is a new area of research for me. Hence I would be glad of any advice on tracing them further. Even better, contact with someone who has knowledge of this family.
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If I've found the right family in 1851 this states Elizabeth was bc.1814 Acle, Norfolk.
Nothing on IGI but I looked on FreeReg and found:
Elizabeth Liffen bp.22/5/1813 St. Edmund, Acle d. of Henry Liffen and Sarah Hacon.
There are other childrens baptisms there also plus parents married 1790.
Annette
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Thank you very much.
YOu have got me past my stumbling block. I did not recognise the work Acle and did so did not note it when I looked at the census. It shows how useful is a fresh pair of eyes. I am looking forward to taking my tree forward - and improving my knowledge of the geography of Norfolk.
Liz
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Thanks to the Acle hint I have taken this family back a couple of generations. But I have got to the stage when some other look up help is needed.
1) I am looking for the birth of Sarah Hacon, ELizabeth's mother. Her parents were Isaac and SArah HAcon who were marrried in NOrwich in1764 . They are the only HAcon family in Acle at the time and they had other children baptised there from 1772 onwards. Sarah died in 1852 age 81 (?). So I am looking in between 1765 and 1771. Sarah is not in the ACle transcription but could have been missed off or christened elsewhere. (Note variants of HAcon - Haken etc)
2) I am looking for the birth of Isaac Hacon. I have found possible parents Isaac and Ann who were married in 1748. I have not found any children. If the younger Isaac was born about 1748 he is old enough to have married in 1864. It is an unusual name so likely to be the same family. I wondered if a look up of two marriages would help establish ages.
Isaac Haken and Sarah Bayes were married St Andrews Norwich 23 Jul 1764
Isaac Hakin and Ann Bays were married in All SAints, Salhouse in 1748
3) I am looking for the birth of Sarah Bayes. There are several possible in the period 1734 to 1749. I am hoping her marriage (see 2 above) will provide names of parents or a hint as to her age.
Thank you
LIz
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:D
Hi Lizb, this is so exciting, I've been waiting YEARS to connect with somebody from this line! My ancestor was John Liffen, the brother of Elizabeth. I believe Isaac Hacon's family were Quakers which is why they don't appear in many registers, but I think I may have discovered his birth parish. Hope to hear from you!!
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It's good to hear from you. I have not got much further on this line since my post. Your comment about the HACUN (HAKEN) family being Quakers makes sense. The earliest I have found them is a marriage in Norwich in 1748. However I have noted that there were family in the Netherlands circa 1680. And I have found references to the family roots possibly being in Norway. I am waiting for a prompt of some sort to start me searching again!
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The Hacon family were long established in Norfolk and Suffolk, I believe they were Danes originally, for instance, the Lord of the Manor of Swaffham was a Dane named Hacon. But I think there is also a connection with Lincolnshire in the mid medieval period.
I'm not sure whether the Isaac Hacon who married Ann Bayes is the same man who married Sarah Bayes some years later. It's not impossible, though, of course it could be his son. Ann was buried at Ashby by Loddon in 1761, so Isaac could have remarried in 1764 to Sarah. Ann was the daughter of Thomas and Ann Bayes, she had a brother named Thomas, living in Salhouse. Isaac was 'of Acle' when they married in 1748. When I was visiting the Norfolk & Norwich FHS Library I was given the advice that Isaac and Sarah's allowed move and settlement from Acle to the parish of Salhouse meant that he was probably a key worker and that I should research the local lord of the manor for estate records.
At Acle there are burial records for Isaac Hacon died 1805 and his widow Elizabeth who died in 1807, so did he marry for a third time, or was this his son?
I wish more Norfolk parish information was online as I can't get up to Norfolk to do research. I did find a little info in the Society of Genealogists holdings: I found Isaac Haykin (brn c1725) with wife Ann at Ashby. This is Ashby by Loddon where Quaker Hacons lived, and the earliest Hacon baptism I have recorded is in 1620 of Robert, son of Robert and Rebecca. They have links too with Norwich and Sco Ruston. It seems that there were three Hacon brothers Robert, William and George. Possibly the sons of Edward who was an inhabitant of the village in 1603. As a note to that, the first name 'Edward' isn't used at all by other Hacon families in Norfolk.
I own a document dated 1725 which shows a connection between the Ashby family and cousins (I assume) in Roughton, Yelverton, and thence back to Gawdy Hacon (and his wife Bridget Gosling) at Topcroft, whose line goes back in that parish to c1491.
Our Sarah Hacon married Henry Liffen in 1791. Her sister Mary married Samuel Barber (or Barker) in 1786 and I believe she remarried in 1817 to John Rix at Upton. The other sister Ann married Peter Browne in 1796 but I find no more references to them....they may have moved away or she died. Browne is too common a name to be sure of anyone. Sarah Liffen died in 1852 at Old Catton by Norwich where she lived with her daughter Sarah Lambert (wife of Edward) and her granddaughter Mary Anne Liffen.
My ancestor is Sarah's younger brother John who moved to London and married there in 1826.
Have you researched the Liffen line at all?
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I have assumed that two Isaacs, father and son, married Ann and Sarah Bayes. But it could be as you suggest.
I traced Sarah in Old Catton because her daughter Elizabeth was there when her son Samuel Howe born in 1847.
I have not been able to visit Norwich Records Office but can visit SOG occasionally. However I am driving through Norfolk next month and have requested we stop to have a look at Acle to look at the church. Have you been there? If not are you interested in pictures?
I have not got very far on the Liffens either. I have assumed our Henry was son of Robert Liffen who was buried in Acle in 1795 and ELizabeth who was buried in 1805. Need to trace connection with Liffen families of Lowestoft and great Yarmouth. How far have you got?
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You might find these two sites useful:-
www.tinstaafltranscripts & www.norfolktranscriptionarchive
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Thanks for posting the links Harwood, but I'm unable to access the sites...unavailable message comes up.
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Hello again Lizb, thanks for your offer, but yes, I have indeed been to Acle, its a very nice place and the church is lovely. I made sure I had my photo taken by the font! My old scanned photos are currently lodged on my deceased PC, so I can't upload or share them at the moment. If you get the time try to visit nearby Thrigby where I believe our Liffen ancestors came from, the earliest I have is c1539.
I've amassed quite a lot about the Liffen family in Norfolk but as yet no direct connection between them and our Henry (born c1765) nor his sister Susannah (chr 1767 at Acle), the children I assume, like you, of Robert (born c1730) and Elizabeth Liffen. Robert may have had a sister Mary (chr 1725 at Acle). If so, then their parents were pdobably William (born c1700) and Mary Liffen.
From what I've tracked back it seems the Liffen surname was originally (de) Lyston from Essex..a parish on the Suffolk border. That transmuted into Liston and then Lifton. I found a will of a Lifton who was named in the parish register as Liffen; and in a different will I found a 'Lefen alias Lifton'. Also, the Lowestoft Liffins were originally in the registers as Liftons.
Runham, Filby, Thrigby, Ormesby, Scratby, etc are the nearest villages to Acle with early Liffens. However the christian names Robert and Henry are more commonly used by the Burgh St Peter/Wheatacre/Beccles Liffen families. I think the main reason for losing track of them is the proximity of Norwich, with its multutude of parishes!
As far as I can tell we are not descended from the Lowestoft/Yarmouth Liffens, they themselves are descended from the Burgh St Peter/Wheatacre Liffens, via Edmund Lifton/Liffin who was chr c1714 at Burgh. He was the great, great grandson of Edmund Lifton and Katherine London ( or Lemon) who married in 1634 at Wheatacre.
This Edmund Lifton junior had a brother William who married a Mary (He must have died around 1741 as she married his brother Henry, named after their father). Whether these are our Robert's parents I don't know. This branch of the family used the names Henry and Robert - their father and grandfather respectively. They also had a connection going back to Ashby in the late 16th to early 17th centuries...the village where the Quaker Hacons lived.
I've actually searched mostly Norfolk registers for Liffen and Hacon, but it seems that before the late 18th century they were living in Suffolk more than I anticipated, and I've barely scratched the surface of that county.
Regarding your descent...I don't have it to hand at the moment, but I think my great, great grandfather John Liffen signed (badly) as a witness at his sisters marriage to Samuel Howe? Do you know anything about their elder sister Mary's marriage to John Howes in 1830 at St George The Martyr in Camden, London.
My John's family must have kept in close touch with their Norfolk relatives as his daughter Ann Liffen married Samuel HASE of Norwich in 1876 at Mile End, but they lived in London and had no children.
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Google. norfolk baptism project,
You should get plenty of norfolk sites.
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Thanks for that tip, Harwood. I have previously seen that site, its an excellent online resource and had some of our info, but for us, we are looking further back, in the 1700's and earlier, and possibly for Quaker or Weslyan ancestry.
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Hi Lizb, I forgot to mention that when Elizabeth's brother John, my ancestor, came to London he married in a church but afterwards baptised and, sadly, buried his children at the nonconformist (Wesleyan?) Ebenezer Chapel in Stepney. Were Elizabeth and Samuel nonconformist? The early south London Liffens (Robert and Henry, c 1790) were Weslyans. I think they originated from the Beccles Liffen branch.
By the way, I notice that on your list of names you mention Hacon in Berkshire/Wiltshire, have you connected Saran or Isaac to there?
I really must read up on nonconformity in Norfolk and Suffolk, I don't know how popular it was...people seemed to switch from CofE to nonconformity then back to CofE again...maybe it was only to get their details recorded in the parish registers so that they or their children could in future claim parish relief or settlement rights.
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Hi' just passing through, you guys seem to be doing pretty good, & on the ball with the various sites, so if I suggest the (norfolk transcription archive) on google, you may have already been there, but just in case, Dave.
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I have not replied before as I have not much to add. I got stuck on these families some time ago and have concentrated on other branches of my family which are spread fairly widely throughout the country. I need to spend time getting my head round the Liffens again. I am not sure I can add anything profitably before I check out what I already have.
Once I have done this I might consider a trip to one of the record offices - like you I think I found Norfolk links dried up and more possible in Suffolk . Or possibly SOG in Lodon which is easier for me.
Taking one of your other points - I do not think that my London branch were non-conformists. I have found baptisms for two of Samuel and ELizabeths children and also for their grandchildren.
There is a mistake on my profile connecting family to Wiltshire - I must update it.
Meanwhile keep in touch and I will let you know if I find anything or have any ideas.
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Thanks Liz. There must be something out there!
That nonconformist link is quite flexible. When my ancestor came up to London all his first children were baptised and buried at a nonconformist chapel in Stepney, the family then used the local CofE church for their final four children,s baptisms...and they all survived thankfully.
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Brief visit to Acle church over weekend. Found a Hacon gravestone which I am just about to check to see where it fits into family. Spoke to vicar who said that local historical society is just about to start transcribing churchyard memorials. But ones from time we want are badly warn now. He also told me that a lot of people moved inland from Yarmouth and Acle to escape plague. They were built up areas where disease spread more quickly.
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Further to previous post earlier today - I have not been able to tie in Hacon burial in Acle to our Hacon. But will give info in case you have further info as possible family link. However several families in Norwich and Yarmouth at time.
Burial was Henry Hacon, husband of Matilda, born 1804, died 1876.
I have found his christening and birth in 1804 in Yarmouth - son of JAmes and Elizabeth. Martha was his third wife, 20 years younger than him. He married Mary (Thain?) in Yarmouth and had children, then he married Caroline Dennington in Yarmouth in 1858 - she died in 1861, he married MARTHA wILKIN IN Norwich in 1862. In 1871 living in SOuth Walsham.
Cannot establish more at present as my ancestry sub has just lapsed. But as you say there must be something that can lead us further back,
lizb
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Hi all I descend from the Lifton family. Managed to trace back to where a Richard Lifton was baptised 1788 to a William Lifton and Mary formerly Smith in Hubberston, Wales. I cant seem to go back any further as a lot were nonconformist records. Not sure how long we been residing in bristol, england. I was told we originate from the devon village but I need to see if this is true. The Liftons in Pembrokeshire appeared to be scattered about the place records were from 1750s onwards including Henry, Robert, Ann, William, Richard, Benjamin. I was also told at some point we were Quakers from nantucket, I know they built milford which was the area we were in. In all it appears we went from port to port. In hubberston and local area's they we sailors and shipbuilders. Another source said we came over from Flanders in the late 1700s soi am rather confused..... I know there were a lot of Liftons in Norfolk/Suffolk. I wonder if Richard was baptised in presence of his grandmother? I found a tree where it said William was b 1723 d 1796. I cant find any records of this, however I found a William Liston marry a Mary Smith in Bristol. The early (1750)Pembroke Liftons were born to a William and Elizabeth. There was also a same couple with surname Liston marry 1720. Any help would assist.
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Forgot to mention I noticed some were baptised in Wesylan chapels. Not sure in Pembrokeshire.
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I read your earlier comments regarding South London Liffens' with great interest. I'm at present stuck on my Family Tree. I'm a South London Liffen, and I've got as far back as my Grandfather.Sadly, I've lost my father now but a few years ago when i mentioned that the Liffen name was common in Norfolk (we have a holiday home at Hemsby) he commented" All i know is that the Liffens had to leave Norfolk in a hurry". He had been told that by someone in the family as a child.My Grandfather was born in South London in 1894 so it was before then.I know that sounds very sinister but I've come to a halt on the tree and maybe someone in this thread might be able to offer some advice.I would so very much like to establish some roots in Norfolk if possible.
Thanks in anticipation.
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Findmypast.co.uk have updated records and have now found William Lifton b. 1723 d 1796. Doesnt say where he was born only mention of his death. His wife was Mary/Ann Smith b. 1733 she died 1798 aged 65.
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London Liffens being researched on
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=655896.new#new
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I am trying to trace the family of one of my ancestors, Elizabeth Liffen.
ELizabeth was born in Norfolk (per 1851 and 1861 census) but moved to London and in 1836 married Samuel Howe. They continued to live in LOndon but their son Samuel, who was born in July 1847, gives his place of birth as Old Catton, Norfolk.
I have previously corresponded with someone at the Old Catton family history society who was unable to find any trace of Samuel or Elizabeth in Old Catton.
However, in the 1841 census there is a Sarah Liffen living in Catton. So I am assuming that SArah was ELizbeth's mother and that ELizabeth was visiting her when her son was born.
I have not been able to establish anything else about the family. I am aware that the LIffen family originated in Norfolk and Suffolk, but this is a new area of research for me. Hence I would be glad of any advice on tracing them further. Even better, contact with someone who has knowledge of this family.
Hi my name is Sarah Liffen and in not sure if your get this message. Slightly confused how this site works . I am from south east London and wondered if there is s connection to our families. Thank you
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Hello.
I am a South London Liffen.
I too found that it was difficult at first but there are some very kind and helpful people on RootsChat.
They have helped me go back a while but sadly my tree has stopped.
Feel free to reply if I can be of any help.
Regards
Henry Liffen
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Hello.
I am a South London Liffen.
I too found that it was difficult at first but there are some very kind and helpful people on RootsChat.
They have helped me go back a while but sadly my tree has stopped.
Feel free to reply if I can be of any help.
Regards
Henry Liffen
Thank you Henry
I haven't actually started yet.
I do know all my Liffen family stayed around London though. My cousin knows more than me but I will let you know. Could you send me what you have so far and I can tell you if the names link.
Thank you
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Hello,
I have just found this thread via google search and am new to this site. I realise this is very old so possibly nobody will see this reply. However if anyone is still interested I saw lizb's post about Elizabeth Liffen and Samuel Howe, and their son Samuel, (Samuel John Howe b.1847). Samuel John is in fact my great-great-grandfather, with Samuel and Elizabeth being my great-great-great grandparents. I have also had an ancestry dna test and have matched to a few people via Samuel and Elizabeth. Remarkably I have also matched to one person via Elizabeth's maternal grandparents - Isaac Hacon and Sarah Bayes. I won't go into great detail about everything I know about the Howe/Liffen families in case nobody sees this, however should anyone, (particularly lizb), want to know more please send a reply and will see if I can help.
Guy
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Hello. I have seen your reply. I haven't been on the Roots Chat since 2016 but am returning now.
Kind regards
Henry Liffen