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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent => England => Kent Lookup Requests => Topic started by: graysj on Friday 06 February 09 21:27 GMT (UK)
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Born in 1793 in Dover, I am seeking his baptism and the names of his parents. On his death certificate (1843) he was named as a Mariner.
Any assistance welcomed.
Simon
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Hi,
I cannot find his baptism -yet ( I go to Canterbury next month) but have his children and marriage.
He was also a Carrier and a baker in Dover.
Lis
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I couldn't see anything much either and wondered if he came from outside of the area as CLIFT isn't a very common name in those parts ie. I couldn't see the name in Buckland nr Dover, Charlton nr Dover nor any pre 1837 burials in Dover St Mary.
Do you know the significance of the second forenames for some of his children ie. Robert Smith CLIFT 1819 or George Wellard CLIFT 1827? Also, have you sighted the original marriage entry for John D B CLIFT to Esther/Hester to see if there are any clues with the names of witnesses etc.?
Casalguidi :)
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Hi Liz,
That would be great if you could look at Canterbury. From where did you find him noted as a Baker and Carrier? The peculiar thing is that although I am certain that the 1843 death certificate does relate to him (shown as Mariner), in 1861 I found another John Clift married to an Esther working as servants. Even more odd is the fact their ages seem the same as John Dansey Brazier Clift both born in Dover!
Hi Casalguidi,
Afraid i do not know if JDB Clift came from outside the area, as a mariner the chance is likely although there is record of Hester Pain's baptism in 1793.
I have not seen the original marriage entry which may contain clues. The sons were given very novel Christian names. Apart from Daniel's middle name of Pain I have no clue why they may have been chosen. All the sons except John Jnr went into seafaring. George Wellard Clift became a Master Mariner , Daniel Pain Clift a Ships carpenter and Robert Smith Clift a Coastguard RN.
All comments welcomed.
Simon
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All I have here is St Marys Dover CMB and St James Dover where more children were born but with single christian names.
On this against the names of the children are his various occupations.
Hester 6/3/1814 father is A BAKER
John 4/8/1816 - a carrier and Robert Smith carrier these baptised in St Marys Dover
Now in St James we have
Daniel Pain 13/3/1822 mariner
Ann Susanna 16/1/1825 mariner, and Elizabeth 4/1/1835 flyman
Eliza Catherine 13/8/1837
Richard 17/6/1832 mariner
George Wellard c11/4/1827 labourer
For what its worth
in St Marys William Smith widr m Mary Paine 2/1/1788.
All these the children of J DB and Esther with various spellings
Richard Brazier widr m Elizabeth Hambrook sp in 1788 he of River --- may be a clue!
And in Marriage Licences there is a Robert Wellard of St Marys m Eliz Mosier of St James D in 1733
I also have in my Dover Index which only goes to 1755 Clifts in Adisham
Good hunting
Lis
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Hello again,
You have found a few more children I didn't know about, many thanks.
I have looked again at the 1841 Census and where it asks whether you are from the County you are in JDB Clift answered NO. Tends to mean he's not going to be found in Dover baptisms. May be the marriage entry could give clues where he is from? Am I write in thinking the only place to see the entry will be Canterbury?
Thankyou for your help. I have looked through the Census records for Richard
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Well all Kent records are in Maidstone.
A great number in the Archive Office in Canterbury Cathedral where I spend a lot of my time when I can, and also Dover and others of the area in Whitfield near Dover.
I cannot think what you can do now if he is nor Kent born, where??
London? Sussex?
I will keep him in mind. When in Canterbury I will look up his marriage and see if there are more clues.
All the best
Lis
PS found Mary Pain d/ Daniel and Ann as you know c 13/10/1793
Daniel Pain m Ann Collard minor, 5/11/1782 Charlton Dover
Dan c 16/10/1757 St James Dover s/ Thomas and Elizabeth
Thomas Pain married Elizabeth Solly 15/12/1746
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The Dansey name interests me.
We have a Dansey one name study and are always on the look out for occurrences of the name. We have most of the Dansey lines well documented, but in the past there were very few in Kent (except for the London end).
Ironic as these days there are about five Dansey families in Kent.
regards - Terry
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Hi, Strangely enough I have a Mary Dansey in my tree. She married I think! as I have no record of this, James Ashley.
This is Middlesex around 1773.
Am not at home at the moment so don't have my records here.
have you info about her?
Thanks
Lis
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I have about 70 Mary Danseys to choose from Lis.
1773 narrows it down a little, when you get back home, let me know anything else you know and I'll try and home in.
Regards - Terry
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I see this is an old topic but I would be interested to know if any of you found anything else about JDBC. On Ancestry every tree goes back as far as him and no further. His wife lists her father as Daniel Pain b 16 Oct 1757. But that is it unfortunately, so any additional info you know would be really helpful.
Best Regards
Richard
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Sorry, cannot help.
best of luck
Lis
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I notice that an 1835 poll book lists him as of St James's Street, a flyman (John Danzey Brazier CLIFT). He is listed under the "Freemen" entitled to vote. Has anybody followed up the records of Dover freemen to see whether anything further is listed there .......... particularly if he was a freeman via parentage which would usually give details of his father?
Are there any further clues ie. names of witnesses on his marriage which may be helpful?
If he was a mariner might it be worth exploring crew lists for Dover vessels?
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-shipping-crewlists-agreements-1747-1860.htm
Casalguidi :)
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Thank you for the quick responses. That's great advice ill see what I can turn up in those records. I've not seen any details on Ancestry for the original marriage certificate. Though someone must have seen it, as the date for marriage is set as 8 Jun 1813 at St Mary the Virgin, Dover, Kent, England. Which is pretty specific to have been plucked out the air :-)
Best Regards,
Richard
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This is from the parish registers for St. Mary the Virgin, Dover Kent
Banns page 6 item #26 read on the 23 & 30 May & 6 June 1813
Marriage: Page 11 item #33 - John Danzey Brasier Cliff, bachelor of this parish and Hester Pain, spinster of this parish married by banns in this church 8 June 1813 by John Maule, minister. Both signed the register and it was witnessed by William Pain, Ann Wood and Elizabeth Thornton.
Hope this helps.
bcrick
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That's really helpful thank you for the info.
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Hi all
I discovered this post whilst searching for JDB Clift and wondered if anyone has come up with any info on his baptism etc.. Someone on Ancestry has his place of birth as Durham but has not sourced it. I did notice that some of his sons did go to Durham. George Wellard & Robert Smith both went there.