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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: GAYNOR WILKINSON on Friday 06 February 09 20:08 GMT (UK)

Title: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: GAYNOR WILKINSON on Friday 06 February 09 20:08 GMT (UK)
My Great Grandfather was John Frimstone, he was a mariner and in the 1871 census, he is listed as a Master mariner. Could anyone advise whether records are available online or otherwise. I am planning a visit to Greenwich but need his registration number.

Thanks
Gaynor
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: celia on Saturday 07 February 09 19:55 GMT (UK)
Quote
Could anyone advise whether records are available on line or otherwise.
No ;D ;D Only the shipping company that merchant seamen worked for have records.They of course in time go to the maritime museum.Then again a merchant seaman could work on any ships.A registration number for the merchant Navy :-\ I haven't got any for mine

Celia
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: Sue15 on Thursday 12 February 09 11:30 GMT (UK)
This link may be useful

for the National Archives

http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Merchant_Seaman_and_Shipping_Records

Good Luck
Sue
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: Romilly on Thursday 12 February 09 11:41 GMT (UK)
This link may be useful
for the National Archives
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Merchant_Seaman_and_Shipping_Records
Good Luck
Sue

I find this site very difficult to navigate:-(

I am trying to locate a Seaman's Pouch for William James Wilson, (1860-1934). I think that he was in The Merchant Navy from 1874- 1890 (Approx). I just seem to get to lists, & can't see how to search from that Link...

Romilly ::)
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: Sue15 on Thursday 12 February 09 12:07 GMT (UK)
I am no expert regarding Merchant Seaman's records and have gone round in circles myself. Looking at this further in the "textbook" of Family history "Ancestral Trails" by Mark Herber he writes

"from 1857 until 1913 the principal records of merchant seamen are the crew lists for each ship. You threfore need to discover the name of a ship upon which an ancestor sailed in this period in order to search in the crew lists or other records at TNA"

Ships Masters - the examination of- are recorded in BT 115. Certificates were granted on passing the examination- also long service could achieve a certificate of competency. BT125 is the register for these certificate from 1854 to 1921 for hóme trade ships. BT125 for foreign trade ships.
(extracted from Ancestral Trails by Mark Herber)

Again Mark Herber writes " The National Maritime Museum holds many of the Masters and mates application for these certificates. You need the certificate number from TNA documents.."

The only way to find out for sure if any of this is online is to email National Archives - in my opinion!

I hope this helps

Sue
 
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: Yorkslass on Thursday 12 February 09 13:10 GMT (UK)
Hello Gaynor,

The records of Merchant Seamen at the National Archives are not online - maybe some day, we hope!

It's a case of going to Kew and searching through them, on microfilm.
I've been a couple of times and been successful, but I'm afraid at the moment, that's the only way.

If your ancestor was a Master Mariner, as Sue said, there should be a record.  However, one of my ancestors said the same of himself on the censuses, and I'm afraid he must have promoted himself, because I've never found him!

Romilly, the same applies to your search - nothing online yet, but again, there are thousands of records at the NRA - here's another link that tells you "how to" - but it means a trip to Kew.  http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=128#4

Good luck,
Yorkslass
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: KarenM on Thursday 12 February 09 13:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Gaynor,

Some of the records are actually in Canada at the Canadian Maritime Museum in Newfoundland. 

http://www.mun.ca/mha/

In 1966 the National Archives in London [Public Record Office] took the decision to discard part of the “Registrar General of Shipping and Seamen, the Agreements and Account of Crew and Official Logbooks” for British Empire vessels from 1861 to1913. The decision met with considerable opposition from archivists and maritime and labour historians; these records were considered to be a valuable and largely untapped source of information on seafaring labour and the shipping industry in the 19th and early 20th centuries. Eventually, through the co-operative effort of a number of individuals, the disposition of the Crew Agreements was settled, with the bulk of the records being transferred to Memorial University's Maritime History Archive (MHA).


Karen
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: Romilly on Thursday 12 February 09 14:01 GMT (UK)

Thanks for the tips Sue & Yorkslass!

Romilly :)
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: GAYNOR WILKINSON on Thursday 12 February 09 19:52 GMT (UK)
Thank you everyone for your input on this subject. I am a little scepticle about my ancestors 'Master' position as entered on the census and Greenwich and Kew are a long way from North Wales. So, unless a trip to London pops up, I may have to leave things as they are, or I could try emailing National Archives as suggested by Sue.

Thanks again

Regards,
Gaynor
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: whoamI2008 on Thursday 12 February 09 21:03 GMT (UK)
An index to entries in the Lloyds Captains Register 1869-1911. Series MS 18567 appears at the Guildhall Library website.

http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm

However it seems that an index for Captains whose names begin with "F" has not been done yet.
There is some useful information if you follow the link to the The Guildhall Library information leaflet "Lloyd’s "Captains Registers" at Guildhall Library and related sources elsewhere".

There is alot of information here:
 
http://www.anmm.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=89&c=166

if your ancestor sailed overseas.

regards
graham


Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: GAYNOR WILKINSON on Thursday 12 February 09 21:08 GMT (UK)
Thanks Graham,
I will check it out.

 8)
Gaynor
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: Erincyprus on Saturday 09 April 11 01:14 BST (UK)
My Great Grandfather was John Frimstone, he was a mariner and in the 1871 census, he is listed as a Master mariner. Could anyone advise whether records are available online or otherwise. I am planning a visit to Greenwich but need his registration number.

Thanks
Gaynor

Try here,

 http://www.irishmariners.ie/links.php


Erin
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: Erincyprus on Saturday 09 April 11 01:17 BST (UK)
PS if you find him here they will have all details and a possible photograph.  28 quid and I got all details including photographs A4 size for four Family Members.  Contact them great bunch and limited cost for information.



Erin
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: GAYNOR WILKINSON on Saturday 09 April 11 08:56 BST (UK)
Thanks Errin,

What a wonderful site however, my Gt Grandfather isn't there.

Thanks anyway,
GW
Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: seaweed on Sunday 10 April 11 12:15 BST (UK)
There were no central records of British merchant seamen (apart from Masters, Mates and some Engineers) kept between 1857 and effectively 1919. Records for WW1 were kept but for some reason these have been destroyed. Researching mariners from this period is always difficult.

Just a couple of explanations to some of the posts.

Seamans Pouches ( they are stored in paper pouch's at Kew, they were not a worn or carried) The documents contained within, except if the individual had service from the Fourth Register of Merchant Seamen, are, by and large post 1941. For details see.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,519246.15.html

Lloyd's Captains Registers are indexed for the letter "F" but John Frimstone is not listed. This could be for a number of reasons most common of which, he was engaged in and certificated for the Home Trade or he was not a Master.

Memorial University of Newfoundland records of Crew Lists or more correctly Crew Agreements are indexed by ships official number and cannot be searched by an individuals name. Note that some Crew Agreements are stored in County Record offices, Kew, and NMM

I think the first place you should look is in BT154/7 at Kew and as already stated this would mean a visit. Be aware that seafaring by its very nature is an occupation not easily regulated or documented so be prepared for a long haul.

I have found a John Frimstone born 1860 in Flint North Wales on board the vessel  NORA CAINE o/n 62972. Too young for your man but maybe a relative?

 

Title: Re: HELP needed with Merchant Seamen records 1800's
Post by: GAYNOR WILKINSON on Sunday 10 April 11 20:35 BST (UK)
Thank you Seaweed for the information.
John Frimstone 1860 was one of my Gt Grandfather sons, he had three sons, all were seamen.

Regards
GW