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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Valley on Friday 06 February 09 16:05 GMT (UK)

Title: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: Valley on Friday 06 February 09 16:05 GMT (UK)
Hi
I Had another thread on this but cant find it.
I have birth cert for John Isaac Williams born 20 th Dec 1858 to Father John Williams and Mother Sarah Leonard they both came from UK John and Sarah Married Feb 1857 in Liverpool Uk. John Senior was a Stonemason / builder they had a further 3 children
James L, Herbert and Thomas must be twins as listed same year 1865 born Australia, the family came back to England on th SS Great Britian in 1868 Ref Mar011 sailing back to Liverpool. Is there any type of census records say 1861 as to why John Sr and Sarah would have gone to Australia in the first place, maybe because he was a stonemason / builder and Ballarat was a growing city maybe he helped to build. I would ove to know why they may have been there. Any info would be great.

Thanks
Val
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 06 February 09 17:08 GMT (UK)
Here's a link to your other thread which was just started in January:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,357247.0.html
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: Valley on Friday 06 February 09 17:16 GMT (UK)
Hi
Thanks for that I think I put it on wron board anyway put a complete on it
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: Keengeni on Friday 06 February 09 22:40 GMT (UK)
Census information was destroyed in Australia.  There are a couple in the 1840's that survive.

A 1865-66 Directory for Ballarat shows there are
2 Miners, 1 Bootmaker, 2 Labourers and 1 Seedsman with the name John Williams. 

Perhaps labourer may include stonemason.

Sorry I can't really help you other than with directory information.

Good luck
K.
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: sparrett on Friday 06 February 09 23:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Val,
I think you have probably answered your own question as to why they went.
It was about OPPORTUNITY.
His skill would certainly be in demand in Ballarat which still has many beautiful buildings established in the boom years after the goldrush.
It is wonderful to imagine that an ancestor of yours contributed.
I would be interested to know their reaons for deciding to return to UK.
The tough years of the 1890's were still a very long way off and things should have been rosy and optomistic for them.

My thoughs anyway. ;D
Sue
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: trish251 on Saturday 07 February 09 00:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Val

These are the children I see born to John Williams and Sarah Leonard (apart from John Isaac) in Australia

Emily 1861 Ballarat ref 1940
James Leonard 1863  Melb ref 9608
Herbert Henry  Melb 1865 ref 16977

I don't see a Thomas - but I have the AVRI and wildcard searches & ref number searches are not easily done

It seems they may have moved to Melbourne for the latter part of their stay in Australia. Perhaps they came a little late looking for gold Sue - did not like life outside a large city -  ??? - but I am guessing. Many people returned because they so missed the family connections - they still do in current times.

Trish
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 07 February 09 04:00 GMT (UK)
It  might be possible  to  try and find  when  the couple arrived in Australia,  the shipping manifest  might say  why  they came  ie if they came as assisted emmigrants  usually  states who long for  and who  assisted them.

We are looking at a period of time between  when  they married in 1857  and the birth of  their first child in Dec 1858.

However  that is assuming  they came into Melbourne.

Jenn
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: terra on Saturday 07 February 09 06:48 GMT (UK)
This could be them

WILLIAMS   JOHN   24   MAY   1858   ZULEIKA   B   145   003
WILLIAMS   SARAH   19   MAY   1858   ZULEIKA   B   145   003

Do you have their dob's?
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 07 February 09 07:37 GMT (UK)
When the family returned to UK on the Great Britain in 1868
John was 36
Sarah  was 31

So  the age on  the arrival on the Zuleika don't quite match but we do know from experience that many peope were either unsure about thier ages or simply lied to make themselves younger and therefore more appealing.

Jenn
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: Valley on Saturday 07 February 09 08:42 GMT (UK)
Hi
Only have year of birh for John and Sarah John C1834 and Sarah C1844 not sure thats right  as on John Isaac bith cert says only 5 yrs between them i think this could be then

WILLIAMS   JOHN   24   MAY   1858   ZULEIKA   B   145   003
WILLIAMS   SARAH   19   MAY   1858   ZULEIKA   B   145   003

As John sr was 25 and Sarah 20 when John Isaac was born in 1859
on our 1871 census no trace of Emily 1861 maybe she died as a child but def listed on Great Britian a Thomas 1865 Herbert and him could have been twins.
They had a another child Arthur W 1871  when they got back to UK Wrexham  address was Stone Quarry Coed Christionydd!! dont know how that would be pronounced.

Val
Title: Re: John Williams Ballarat
Post by: Feathertail on Monday 30 March 09 07:24 BST (UK)
Hi Vall
In the family bible Sarah Leonard records that
“On Monday, 8th February 1858, John Williams, aged 25, and Sarah Leonard, aged 19, both of Ruabon, North Wales, were married in St. Paul’s Church, Liverpool, (without their parents’ knowledge or consent) and sailed to Australia.”
I imagine the marriage was not approved of.

They had the following children in Ballarat:
John Isaac Williams   Born December 20 1858 on the Miners Rights nr Ballarat Australia.          [added later in small writing]    Chrisend St Johns Church about 1862 Melboune.

Emily Williams  Born Nov 19 1860 Ballarat; later entry Emily Williams   died 15 Fabery 1862 a girl 14 months interment North Old Cemetery Balarat Australia. There is no grave stone for her.

In Melborne the following children were born:
James Leonard Williams    Born May 4th 1863 at Roslyn Street  North Melburne
Herbert Henry Williams    Born July 16 1866   North Melburne
Thomas Alfred Williams   Born Fabry 14 1868  North Melburne
Their return home is recorded on the Great Britain in March 1868

the spelling of February was great!


They came back after John's father died.
Cheers Feathertail
PS I recon they probably went to find gold and it took 10 years t save enough to return!!
They probably went to Melborne because of Emily's death. It is extreamely cold in Ballarat in winter
F
Title: Re: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: Whitford on Monday 02 July 12 23:00 BST (UK)
Very exciting.  John Isaac Williams was my great grandfather.  I have photo of him, his wife and their fifteen children.  Do you have other information?
Title: Re: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: Valley on Friday 20 July 12 10:46 BST (UK)
Hi
Sorry to have taken so long to reply> This is my Inlaws family and have done a few pages which maybe of interest to you if you PM your email address I will forward on the details I have. John I Williams was also my late husbands GG Grandfather and his Grandfather was LEOPOLD J Wiliams who married Ivy L Young In 1914

Val
Title: Re: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: judb on Friday 20 July 12 13:37 BST (UK)
Whitford will need to make a couple more posts then s/he will be able to use the PM system.  :)
Title: Re: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: Whitford on Friday 20 July 12 16:07 BST (UK)
Hi Val

Thank you for your reply.  My grandmother was Gladys Williams and she married Herbert Lelliott and lived in Worthing.  I have a copy of a clan photograph, given I think to all John and Elizabeth's children and probably taken in Oxted some time between 1910 and 1915.

I'd love to see your stuff but I'm ignorant. What is the PM system please and what criteria do I not fulfil to access it??

Whitford
Title: Re: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: Whitford on Friday 20 July 12 16:11 BST (UK)
Oh, right.  I've checked up on PM and this is my third post so perhaps I'll be able to use it now ...
Title: Re: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: wrjones on Friday 20 July 12 17:51 BST (UK)
I take it you've got the census info for Sarah from 1851?HO107/2503/224/22.In Denbighshire Wales!

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: John WILLIAMS Ballarat
Post by: CMHD on Monday 22 April 19 10:59 BST (UK)
Hello,
I looking for information regarding John Isaac Williams.   I am the Curator of Aldeburgh Museum, and I believe this gentleman may be the J I Williams, who was Mayor of Aldeburgh in 1891.  If you have any information regarding this, and perhaps an image of the gentleman, I would be most grateful.
Best wishes
Catherine Howard-Dobson