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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: HSU on Tuesday 03 February 09 14:47 GMT (UK)
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I am seeking information prior to 1881 on William Henry Tittley, born circa 1846 in Dudley, Staffs and died 05 August 1910 at Cote Hill, Carlisle, Cumberland. He married Mary Ann Dawson on 10 April 1877 in Carlisle, Cumberland.
Any info will be received gratefully.
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Hi and welcome to rootschat.
Do you have the marriage certificate for them in 1877? Apr quarter 1877 Carlisle 10b 701 That might be a sensible move as it will give both fathers' names and also Mary's maiden name. I am assuming she has been married before as there is a Wm Dawson living with them in 1881 - of course he could be their child born before marriage. I see she is called Mary Jane in 1881. Which is correct?
FreeBMD has another William Henry Titley marriage in Dudley in 1857 so there might be a clue there.
Regards
Andrea
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Hi Andrea,
Thanks for the welcome! I have the marriage cert. She was Mary Ann Dawson, spinster declared when married. His Father was registered as George , a general labourer. Hers as William, again a general labourer.
Regards,
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I am not doing well on finding William in earlier census. Will move this to the Staffordshire board so that someone with local knowledge might pick it up. Who were the witnesses at the marriage? Often they are family members. Have you got earlier details of Mary Ann?
Andrea
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Hi Andrea,
Apologies for the slow response but I have been researching the Dawsons. I have found the parents, Margaret & William in the 1851/61/71 censuses living in Upperby, Carlisle.
The 1851/61 info suggests that they had two Daughters called Mary Ann, the first born in 1850 died in early 1853 and the second was born a couple of months later and presumably named after her deceased Sister. I have found birth & death entries to support that theory but I have not got certs yet.
The 1871 data shows a Grandaughter living with them and I have a cert that shows she is the child of Mary Ann. So Mary Ann had two Children before she married William Henry. Although he brought them up with him, I am not sure whether he is the Father. He is not mentioned on Margaret's birth cert.
Thanks for moving my query to the Staffordshire board, hopefully someone will assist me. I am reassured that you have not found William Henry in ear lier censuses. I thought it was just me being unclever!! There is a Family suggestion that his Father remarried and he did not get on with his Stepmother and so left home to go north and work on the Settle to Carlisle railway. If true, I wonder if he was in some railway accommodation and might appear in a collective census return?
Witnesses on the marriage cert are John Clark and Elizabeth Hastings and I cannot see any family connection.
Best wishes,
Dennis
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Hiya Dennis
The only William Tittley/Titley I can find in 1871 giving a birth reference of Dudley is at the following reference RG10/Piece 2982 Folio 89 Page 43
For some reason he doesn't come up on the search I spotted the mothers name first but he is only 4 so the wrong age. It looks like the marriage from 1857 so I will keep looking
Dudley also come under Worcestershire on Ancestry
Willow x
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Hiya Dennis
I'm coming up with a dead end here
I might be worth buying the marriage certificate from 1857 for William Henry Titley (known as Henry) He married a Mary Ann Ludham who gives her bithplace as Dudley but I cant find her on earlier census either
I wonder if the not getting on with the stepmother is actually not getting on with the stepfather but he was using his stepfathers surname. There isnt a death for a George Tittley/Titley listed either
Willow x
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Hi Willow,
Thanks for your interest and for the info. I will explore the references you give and see what I find.
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Hi
On west midlands BMD
http://www.bmsgh.org/wmbmd/
it has William but the bride is Sarah GRIFFITHS
and
Mary Ann Ludham
William WHITBY
both at All Saints Sedgley
Donna
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Hiya Dennis and Donna
Thanx for that Donna it answers that question
There isnt a William b 1846 +/- 2 years Dudley with a father George who comes anywhere close on the 1851 census but on 1861 there is
Richard Jones 29 head M b Lilleshall Shropshire Limestone miner
Elizabeth Jones 28 wife M b Lilleshall Shropshire
William Titley Doody step son 17 b Dudley Staffs labourer
Elizabeth Streney? 7 visitor b Dudley Staffs
RG9/1902 Folio 79 Page 14
Williams middle name is down as Tilley on Ancestry. I'm wondering if William was illigitimate and his father was actually George Titley but he wasnt living with him. There is a William Henry Doody on FreeBMD 2/4 1844 Dudley 18 273
Willow x
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Hi Willow and Donna,
Thanks both for you interest and info.
I have found Richard & Elizabeth Jones in 1851 and 1871 censuses, references HO107/1998/16/25 & RG10/2812/34/14. William is also there in 1851 aged 6 and listed as William Hody but it looks like Doody to me on the original census form. William is not there in 1871 and so far I have not found him elsewhere in that census.
I have also found a marriage entry in Wellington, Sal 1849 AMJ 18/354 for Richard Jones & Elizabeth Doody.
Frustratingly, I cannot find a link to Titley. The only occurence is the middle name of William Doody in the 1861 census. I am intrigued how Willow found that reference?!
I suppose I could send for the William Henry Doody 1844 birth cert to see what that tells me?
Best wishes,
Dennis
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Hiya Dennis
I suspect that William was illigitimate and his actual father was George Titley which is why he is named on the marriage certificate
We were lucky with that one that they actually gave Titley as a middle name on the census otherwise we wouldnt have found him. I only found him because I searched for all males called William born 1846 +/- 2 Dudley
I think getting the birth certificate is a good idea just too see if it mentions George Titley
Willow x
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Hi Dennis and Willow
Has anyone obtained a copy of William Henry's Death Certificate?
Regards
Bob
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Hi Bob.
Do not think I have a death cert for WHT but will look in my papers and get back to you. What more will the death cert tell us?
Regards,
Dennis
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Hi Dennis
His parents names? (or lack thereof)
Bob
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Sorry Bob but British death certificates dont have that information on early ones don't give a married womans maiden name either
Willow x
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Thanks Willow.
Bob
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Yes very frustrating too ;D
Willow x
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Hi Bob,
Just to complete things, I did not find a death cert for WHT in my papers but I do not think it is a great loss for the reasons given by Willow. So I think it is back to the drawing board for our search for WHT's ancestors.
Hi Willow,
Nice to hear from you again. Recapping on our past discussions, just to confirm that I did get a Birth Cert for William Henry Doody but it only gives details of the Mother, Elizabeth Doody. Regrettably, no mention of the Father. Only other info gives the birth on 02.04.1844 at Constitution Hill and the mark of a Mary Newey who was present at the birth. So it does not tell me any more than we have surmised already.
So I am still trying to find William Henry in the 1871 census, either as WH Doody or WH Titley but thus far without success. However, I live in hopes that I will track him down!
Regards,
Dennis
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Hi Dennis/Willow
Family story here (Fiona's Mum, Jean) also confirms that WH left the family home to work on the Settle railway because he did not get on with his stepfather (not stepmother). Would tie in with the information from the 1851 census obtained earlier by Willow.
Bob
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I wonder if he was working on the railway in 1871 and got missed off the census
Willow x
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Willow
That seems possible. The camps they were in were quite remote.
Had a bit of a look at Familysearch (LDS site) and came up with the following:
• Marriage of Elizabeth DOODY to Richard JONES on 10(25) June 1849 at Wrockwardine-Wood, Shropshire (not far from Lilleshall). Her father’s name given as Thomas.
• Birth/Christening of Elizabeth DOODY on 16 June 1822 at Lilleshall, Shropshire (a lot of Doodys there). Father Thomas and mother Mary.
Some of the ages given in the 1861 Census information obtained by Willow therefore look to be quite a bit out – especially for Elizabeth. For example, if she was 28 at the time of the Census then she would have been born circa 1833 and given birth to William when she was 11 years old!! Either we have got the wrong person or Elizabeth was fudging her age (considerably).
Bob
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Hi Willow & Bob,
1851/61/71 censuses give Elizabeth's age as 28, 38, 48 and are consistent with her baptismal date of 16 Jun 1822. So I think we have a possible scenario with Elizabeth as Mother for WHT/WHD and him leaving home and changing his surname. I wonder if he did that officially?
My only concerns are we cannot find him yet in 1871 census, although the railway accommodation might be a reason, and we cannot find his Father, George Tit(t)ley in 1841/51/61 censuses.
Regards,
Dennis
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Dennis
Are they living in Lilleshall in 1851/61/71?
Bob
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Hi Bob,
Yes, in all three censuses they are living at "The Hill, Lilleshall".
Regards,
Dennis