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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Felin on Monday 02 February 09 10:15 GMT (UK)
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My Ggrandfather Edward Lancaster b30 Mar 1836 was recorded in Hulme Manchester in 1851 Aged 15 and next recorded in MAidstone Kent in 1871 aged 35.
He married Mary Ann Chambers in Castlemain Victoria on 15 Nov 1858.
I am trying to find when they went to Australia - I believe Edward left with one Brother probably Frederick Lancaster.
I presume Mary Ann Chabers emigrated at a similar time with her family.
Edwards son Walter Lancaster later returned to Australia and became Mayor of Hawthorne.
Any help would be appreciated
Ralph
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You could search here..
http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide050/PROVguide050.jsp
Scroll down the page to the shipping indexes.
terra
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Hi Ralph
Is this your first time researching on the Oz boards - or have you been researching previously in Australia? Your post caught my eye because my gg grandmother was a Mary (just checked - she was Sarah ::) ) Ann Chambers (but her married name) who came from Maidstone Kent. They didn't arrive in Australia until 1873, so probably no relationship to be easily found.
The immigration records in Australia are by state until the 1920s. As your couple married in Victoria, it is a good chance they arrived in that state, but not guaranteed.
The link given by terra gives both assisted and unassisted immigrant lists into Victoria, as well as passengers leaving Victorla (doesn't seem to be an Edward lancaster leaving - but lots of Mr & Mrs)
Do you have the marriage certificate for your couple. Their ages could be useful in finding the correct immigration record. There is a Mary Ann Chambers arriving in 1856 aged 25 - possible
There is additional information from the indexes available at prov and some libraries within Australia - if you find any likely folks, you could ask for a lookup - and may find someone who can check. There is always more information available about assisted passengers - If you paid your own fare - no-one much cared!
hope this helps
Trish
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Thank you both for your replies I have certainly found some of the Lancaster Family and all the Chambers Family on the suggested site. Only Edward Lancaster remains to be found He was born 1836 in Hulme Lancashire and married Mary Ann Chambers on the 15 Nov 1858 at Castlemain Victoria.
Edward was a builder and constructed his own house at Castlemain and built a beer house at nearby Fryertown known as the Bellevue . All that is left is a horsetrough from outside the beerhouse now in a museum.
He returned to Maidstone kent and built a house called Bellevue. Later two of his children returned to live in Australia.
Yes I am new to this site although I have made a few unsucessful attempts to find other family members.
p.s. how do you insert the list of family surnames you wish to find - usually at the bottom of each post.
Ralph
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Ah - I don't have my names there - but I believe it is done by updating your profile - Ah, Ido have the census message there - when I joined it was not auto generated.
Click on profile - to the right of the large search link - or click on your own name on this thread - does the same thing
Select the option RootsChat Profile Information
find the heading Research names or areas
and add all your names
Trish
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There are a number of Lancasters listed on the Victorian Electoral roll 1856 - no sign of Edward but he was probably not old enough and/or didn't have qualifications (some years before universal suffrage)
Would the detail be of any use?
Trish
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are you sure he stayed in Kent and didn't return to Australia?, or maybe this is another relative.
as there is this entry on the Pre-Release Wills and Probate site for Victoria.
Edward Lancaster Inn-Keeper Castlemaine 26 Nov 1875
there are other LANCASTERS mentioned as well.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=54
Leanne
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Edward's children in Aus were born at Castlemaine, Casterton, Camperdown and Loddon - the last birth in 1865.
Outward bound passengers from Victoria
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=42
LANCASTER ---- INFANT WITH I NORFOLK SEP 1866 LONDON SEP 1866 003
LANCASTER ---- MR 29 NORFOLK SEP 1866 LONDON SEP 1866 003
LANCASTER ---- MRS 28 NORFOLK SEP 1866 LONDON SEP 1866 003
LANCASTER ALICE 3 NORFOLK SEP 1866 LONDON SEP 1866 003
LANCASTER EDW 5 NORFOLK SEP 1866 LONDON SEP
Census search -
Edward is on the 1871 Census at Maidstone Kent with occupation bricklayer, 1881 Maidstone, bricklayer foreman [Walter is bricklayer], 1891 Moss Side, Lancs, Foreman bricklayer [Walter is a fruit salesman] and 1901 Walter is married living in South Manchester and is builder and contractor.
terra
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Gosh you lot work fast - many thanks
Trish thank you for your offer of the Victorian Electoral roll - may I take five on that just for the time being.
Leanne The date of the will is too late for father Edward but may well be his son Edward T Lancaster who I know returned to Australia - maybe it was he who was the innkeeper - bye the way the house he built in Maidstone was called "Castlemain" not Bellevue.
Terra All the British Census entries confirm my notes, Edward's Daughter Lilian Grace Lancaster was my Grandmother and married Thomas Adams Jones in Manchester Catheral. One confusion from the IGI is that one says she was born in Castlemain and one says she was born Maidstone
Finally my Grandmother's note say Edward was the Tenant of the Rising Sun in Maidstone, and another note says that his Father Edward Lancaster b 1811 was married to Mary Brindley (the note adds she is a relative of James Brindley the Victorian Engineer and Canal Builder).
This Geneology is a fasinating thing.
Ralph
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Ralph... found this on
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Births Dec 1876
LANCASTER Lilian Grace Maidstone 2a/671
Have pm'd the births in Australia.
terra
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Hello Ralph,
After reading the Will of Edward Lancaster mentioned by Leanne
are you sure he stayed in Kent and didn't return to Australia?, or maybe this is another relative.
as there is this entry on the Pre-Release Wills and Probate site for Victoria.
Edward Lancaster Inn-Keeper Castlemaine 26 Nov 1875
I am struck by the co-incidence of name contained..... he left all his estate to his WIFE MARY ANN. He asks for her guardianship of their children whom he does not name.
Now it looks to me like some angles here need a rethink.
If he is the son of your Edward as you say, then even if he was the firstborn.... in say 1859, he is too young to be the father of plural children when he dies in 1875.
Sue
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By the way, the EDWARD of the Will, gives his birth place as Lancashire UK.
LANCASTER EDW 5 NORFOLK SEP 1866 LONDON SEP
I see Terra has given the birhdate of the son EDWARD.
So, way too young to be the Edward of the WILL.
Sue
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Interesting Sue
This may be the corresponding death record
Edward Lancaster died 1875 father Thomas mother Mary Banks born Lanc ref 12624 age 49, so older and different parents as from Ralph - if I have the right death
b. c 1826
Trish
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Ralph
Could there be a mixup between two Edward Lancasters? Do you have the 1858 marriage certificate - does it give parent names? This certificate, or the 1875 death may provide some extra information.
I'll have a look for an Edward born 1816 in Lancashire - no doubt there will be many!
Trish
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There is only one death on the Vic indexes for an Edward LANCASTER in 1875 and there is a marriage in 1863 for an Edward to a Mary GIBLETT.
The census information, as Ralph mentioned, agrees with his ancestors notes. Mary Ann CHAMBERS is noted on the census as born in Maidstone, Kent, perhaps the reason they returned there and then back to Edward's place of birth by the 1891 census. The chn born in Australia are noted on the various census as such. A****y 1871 census details their place of birth as United States but scan shows Australia.
terra
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There is an 1841 census record for an Edward Lancaster of the age with parents Thomas & Mary, may well be this Edward, Sue.
They lived in Blackburn and father Thomas was a farmer - most of the children were weavers. Could be a red herring if it is the 1863 couple as listed by Terra
Trish
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Finally my Grandmother's note say Edward was the Tenant of the Rising Sun in Maidstone, and another note says that his Father Edward Lancaster b 1811 was married to Mary Brindley (the note adds she is a relative of James Brindley the Victorian Engineer and Canal Builder).
The names of Edward's parents.
terra
edit Perhaps this is the Edward T that Ralph was referring to
Edward Thomas LANCASTER with father Edward and Mary Ann CHAMBERS died at Heidelberg in 1929 aged 68 years. Ref no 9949
Removed the bold to emphasize the parents names at is seems to have caused offence when none was intended.
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Thank you for the highlighting Terra - it seems my reading ability has been questioned before by another poster in a similar fashion - I did make the following comment
so older and different parents as from Ralph - if I have the right death
I tend to follow all and any path to double check that the correct person has been found.
Trish
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There are a number of mentions of Walter as Mayor of Hawthorn in The Argus (a melbourne paper) on the digitised newspapers site of the National Library.
http://ndpbeta.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/titles?state=Victoria
I don't think they tell you anything new although his daughters are mentioned by name in one account of a Mayoral Ball.
Cheers, Judith
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All I can say is - fantastic - you all seem to have incredible knowledge of where to find everthing.
To save confusion I will set out the facts as I have them - Although I do know there were many Lancasters going backwards and forwards to Australia including 2 Edward Lancasters born in Manchester which has confused the issue.
Edward Lancaster b 1811 Hulme Manchester m. Mary Brindley b 1811 Lancashire
He had about 7 children including Edward (Ned) Lancaster b30 Mar 1836 who married Mary Ann Chambers b 1837 in Castlemain 15 Nov 1858
They had 8 children including Edward Thomas Lancaster b29 Oct 1860
Is it possible for Ned to be living in England at the time of his death and still own property in Castlemain with an Australian will proved by one of his relatives over there.
Your knowledge of the internet is amazing - I wish you could find my other brick walls James Begent b1804 Chancery Lane London and Thomas Jones b 1801 Norwich neither of which show up before the 1841 census
Ralph
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Hi Ralph,
It is great that the information found by the Australian chatters has been helpful and interesting to you. We are a keen bunch, no doubt ;D
It is probably at a good point now for you to get some details of the information commited to paper and file. you can always come back with fresh quetions then.
To me the likely picture now is that the EDWARD of the Will is not related, merely a man of the same name living in Castlemaine at the time with a wife named Mary Ann . The available information shows no correllations.
A Close reading of the thread may make persuade you one way or the other. :D
Sue
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Terra
Of the many posts that have been made - you mention that Edward Thomas Lancaster dies in 1929 in Heidleberg.
I had always been led to believe that he returned to Australia on the "Ceramic" in Dec 1920 Aged 60 and remained there. The Heidleberg connection is interesting can you fill me in a bit more.
Thanks for the private list which I have copied and deleted.
Ralph
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Your knowledge of the internet is amazing - I wish you could find my other brick walls James Begent b1804 Chancery Lane London and Thomas Jones b 1801 Norwich neither of which show up before the 1841 census
not sure just what you mean here! Are you looking for them between their births and the 1841 census? in Australia?
I cannot see this death posted but if it is apologies
LANCASTER Walt James died in 1933 at BoxHill Victoria reg no 7447
Father Lancaster Edward
Mother Mary Ann CHAMBERS
Incidently Heidleburg is in Victoria, that is the one where Edward died ;)
from the 1924 Electoral Roll for Box Hill in Victoria
Edward Thomas Lancaster 302 Whitehorse Road occupation Poultry Dir.
Hannah Lancaster 302 Whitehorse Road occupation Home Duties.
Jenn
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Hi All,
Just for Ralph's interrest, Heidleberg and Box Hill are middle to outer suburbs of Melbourne and are about 10 or 15 kilometers apart. So....
It is likely the brothers remained in contact. ;D
Sue
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Again thanks for details of deaths in Australia, I suddenly had this feeling that one of my family had gone off to Germany for some reason and then dropped dead.
Regarding Thomas Jones and James Begent - this was just a comment that you lot are such good detectives that I need you on the other sides of my family - unfortunately they remained in UK all there lives and the other areas of Rootschat have not come up with any results.
Please don't send me details of Eli Begent and his family in Tasmania as they are not part of my family
Ralph
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Felin
Did Edward and Walter marry sisters?
do you have their children?
Jenn
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I know Walter Lancaster married Sarah Eastwood and had a daughter Margaret lancaster and two other unamed children
Edward Thomas Lancaster married Hannah ?
Edwards Father (alsoEdward) married Mary Ann Chambers
His Father also Edward married Mary Brindley
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by the Censuss Edward T Lancaster bon 1861 Australia had a wife named Emilie?
Jenn
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death of a Hannah Lancaster in Victoria
LANCASTER Hannah died in 1958 aged 87 at Warr reg no 23158
Father Eastwood Georg
Mother Elizabeth UNKNOWN
Jenn
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Jenn you originally asked whether Walter and edward married sisters and it seems you have found the answer Walter married Sarah Eastwood and Edward married Hannah Eastwood (your comment on her Father being George Eastwood). I have not heard of Emille.
I think I now have all the information I need on the Australian side of my Lancaster Family from the many posts that have opened up this era of emigration. I must now return to UK to trace Edward Lancaster B.1811 in Hulme Lancs and his wife Mary Brindley b 1811 Lancs.
Once again I have to thank you all for your enthusiastic replies.
Ralph
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Well that is interesting because Edward and Emelie appear to have had children together down the census!!
The marraige was in Victoria
Edward Thomas Lancaster married Hannah Eastwood in 1922 reg no 5759
Jenn
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Hi Jenn,
The marraige was in Victoria Jenn
Do you mean the marriage of Edward and Emily?
There is this on freebmd.
Dec 1/4 1883 at Medway [Kent]
Edwad Thomas Lancaster. 2a 929
Same page as
Emily Comfort.
Which census have you found them on?
Sue
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yes the marrriage of Edward Lancaster and Hannah Eastwood was in Victoria
Jenn
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1891 census
Norfolk, Great Yearmouth
105 Havelock Road
Edward Thos Lancaster Head 30 years Fishmerchant born Australia Victoria(british subject)
Emelia Lancaster Wife M 30 born Kent Cliff
Thomas J Lancaster 6 scholar born Kent Maidstone
Edward W Lancaster 4 scholar born Kent Dartford
They certainly got about a bit two children born in Manchester, Lancashire.Violet in 1892 and Arthur in 1894 and then on to Skirbeck in Lancashire by 1901 he is still a fish merchant.
Jenn
Jenn
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Jenn you originally asked whether Walter and edward married sisters and it seems you have found the answer Walter married Sarah Eastwood and Edward married Hannah Eastwood (your comment on her Father being George Eastwood). I have not heard of Emille.
I think I now have all the information I need on the Australian side of my Lancaster Family from the many posts that have opened up this era of emigration. I must now return to UK to trace Edward Lancaster B.1811 in Hulme Lancs and his wife Mary Brindley b 1811 Lancs.
Once again I have to thank you all for your enthusiastic replies.
Ralph
Hi Ralph
I gather Terra sent bdm information by PM - so I understand that you have all the information you need on the Australian branch :D , which may not all be mentioned on this thread. My apologies if I suggested a "red herring" - one tends to get over-interested in other folks genealogy queries. With the release of new items online (e.g. wills) I hate to think something has been overlooked.
The reality of most of our Australian research - we cannot go further back than 1788, and the early settlers were very well documented - good luck with your search through the parish and other archival records in England, sometimes this is when things truly become difficult.
Trish
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It is very frustrating when information is sent by PM because it doesn't allow other researchers the opportunity to view the information and also others who are helping with the thread do not know what has been sent via the Pm. (allthought we all know it is easier than typing out heaps)
"google" and the ilk are such a widely used tool, we have seen time and time again on rootschat where beginners partculary search the web looking for thier ancestors and the name will come up on rootschat and then they become members and further their searches.
No offence is meant to anyone just my opinion
kind thoughts Jenn
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Hi All,
Yes, I agree Trish, once you start digging, you feel that you must explore all corners to be sure information is as complete as possible. ;)
Not always conclusive of course.
As we do not quite know what information Ralph has at this point, doesn't hurt to press on. ;D
Looks like EDWARD THOMAS moved from fishmongering [1881 onwards] to Poultry [sales or similar] back in Aust.
Sue
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Hi All,
Yes, I agree Trish, once you start digging, you feel that you must explore all corners to be sure information is as complete as possible. ;)
Not always conclusive of course.
As we do not quite know what information Ralph has at this point, doesn't hurt to press on. ;D
Looks like EDWARD THOMAS moved from fishmongering [1881 onwards] to Poultry [sales or similar] back in Aust.
Sue
This is an addiction Sue - can it be treated - if so please let me know how ;D Meanwhile I read with much interest :)
Trish
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The 1881 census shows EMILY COMFORT b. KENT CLIFF. .
She was born 1861 and is a housemaid on a farm called Wyburn Farm at the home of her uncle Mungeam. in Kent
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Ah well Sue that does appear to be her doesn't it.
Incidently on the 1914 and 1919 Electoral for Victoria
Hannah EASTWood Dressmake and Eliza EASTWOOd home duties
live at 302 White horse Road Box Hill
Jenn
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Mmmm...
So last seen as a family unit in 1901??
then on to Skirbeck in Lancashire by 1901 he is still a fish merchant. Jenn
Sue