RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: crow41 on Sunday 01 February 09 23:23 GMT (UK)
-
Has any one details of the parentage of Rose Matilda Knight b 1864 Sandhurst Geelong Victoria.
Details we have is that her father was Thomas Knight and mother was Margaret Jones. They were married in 1854 Victoria.
When they came to Victoria, what ship and where they were born in the UK, parents etc., of both, is unknown.
I have gained info of two brothers John Knight (18) and Thomas Knight (20) coming to Victoria aboard "Merlin" 1852, but have no connection details to Margaret Jones or the brothers parentage.
Thanks in anticipation,
Barry
I was under impression Sandhurst was Catholic Parish near Geelong. Correction to Bendigo is noted. Thanks
-
Passenger records to Vic
http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide050/PROVguide050.jsp
Scroll down the page to the indexes
There are numerous births to Thomas KNIGHT and Mary JONES at Sandhurst, which it the former name for Bendigo, not Geelong, but not a Rose Matilda. Perhaps her birth wasn't registered.
The purchase of the 1854 marriage cert [reg 1718] should give you the bride and groom's places of birth and the names of their parents.
terra
-
Hi Barry,
I was helping another "Chatter" sometime last year - I know of the John Knight and Thomas Knight. I think I have a copy of the manifest for the "Merlin" - if you don't have the details from it - I will see if I can dig it up.
Also I may have the Death Certificate for Thomas Knight - from memory I don't think the children were named on it.
As it turned out - this Thomas Knight was not the one the other "Chatter" was connected to.
Let me know if you would like me to dig up this information for you.?
Sarra
-
Thanks Sarra,
It would be great if you do that for me. It may just be the detail I need for further follow up on Thomas Knight & family, in UK.
Terra is also providing valuable input on this family.
Point of interest; Rose Matilda Knight (my g/gmother), was buried under the name of Forbes, her second husband, at Mont Park Vict.1942.
She was earlier married to Alexander Ferguson ( my g/Gfather) in 1885, they divorced in 1912.
Barry
-
Hello,
from many threads in rootschat it appears that there may be a missing batch or two fo birth registrations in central victoria around this time.
Another possibility to consider is that she was adopted or fostered.
My great grandparents were supposed to have had Annie in the year of their marriage 1894, then 3 more children. There was absolutely no trace of her. Then I tracked back from her death under the name of her secoond husband, through both marriages to find out that she had been fostered by the couple when her mother died in childbirth. Easy once I knew the secret!!! (my uncle knew but would not tell until confronted with the direct question after I had found out.)
She had 6 siblings from her mother's two different marriages. While I can find them all in the records I don't know who cared for them. The father died 5 years later!!!
Keep on looking
Robyn in Wodonga
-
Hi again,
I noted that th e1854 marriage has MAary Jones as Margaret Jones.Have you the original marriage of Margaret Jones to Thomas Knight?
I just had a look at NSW and there was a Matilda JONES born to John & Margaret Jones in 1852 (plus three other children all before 1854 plus the death of three John Jones in 1854)
Just exploring ideas and concepts,
good luck
Robyn in Wodonga
-
I see all you Chatters have being busy while I was trying to type up the information I have for the Knight brothers. I had it all finished and I thought I had posted it and grrrrrrrrrrr it disappeared - my second attempt.
Looking at the Manifest for the 'Merlin" I would say that Thomas & Jonathan Knight were related - possibly brothers.
Thomas Knight's occupation was listed as - grocer.
Jonathan Knight's - husbandman.
I don't have the Death Certificate for Thomas Knight (sorry) it is for Jonathan Knight (brother)?.
Jonathan's wife is recorded as Margaret Jones on this certificate. I know from my research that Jonathan Knight married a Harriet Talbot (Vic BMD index) - however her name is recorded as Harriet JONES - on some of the childrens' birth registrations. I haven't tried to solve this mystery.
You can find Thomas & Jonathan Knight on the FamilySearch.org - parents are Richard Knight and Ann. I did find that Ann's maiden name was Porter. Also you can find Richard Knight and his family on the UK Census.
Sorry this is not helping with the parentage of Rose Matilda Knight.
Sarra
-
Thanks again Sarra,
I will follow up on your info and reply to same.
There seems to be many mistakes in how the registration of children's parentage in 1800's early 1900's. Some deliberate maybe?
What was date of death of John Knight on your certificate?
Barry
Robyn,Thanks also for your interest,
Who is the Annie born 1894, you refer to above. Is she a Knight or a Ferguson maybe?
As far as I have researched, there is no daughter Annie to Alexander Ferguson and Rose Matilda Knight in 1894.
Also there was no children it seems from Rose's second marriage to William Forbes as she was 50+ in 1917.
Do you mean there was an Annie born in 1854 to Thomas and Margaret? (edit 3/2/09)
A connection somewhere maybe possible,
Barry
-
Barry,
Date of death was 26 November 1867. There was an Inquest into his death.
If you would like a copy of the Death Certificate - send me a PM with an email address.
I know what you mean regarding mistakes on Birth registrations. I found one where the grandmother was registered as the Mother of her son's child.
Sarra
-
Barry,
The Annie was one of the namae sin MY family tree that had me blocked until I found that she was a foster daughter not a natural daughter , every famimly record had her as a natural daughter, but she was no blood relation at all in th eend of 5 years searching!!!
Just alerting you to the possibilty that Matilda Rose could be a unregistered child of the marriage or a fostered child (motherless or orphaned) or an illegitimate child born before the marriageor a child of Margaret Jones from another marriage. There a many possibities.
I have learned the hard way to look at the most unlikley place for ansawers to brick walls.
Robyn in Wodonga
-
Marriage Certificate #2931 of 22nd April 1885 in the District of Bendigo (Sandhurst)
Matilda Knight 20yrs, born Sandhurst, father Thomas Knight and mother Margaret Jones.
Alexander Ferguson 22 years, born Melbourne, father John Steele Ferguson and mother Grace McNeil
Both Matilda and Alexander were listed as living Goornong Vict.
This indicates a birthdate of 1865 for Matilda. Reg # ?
Also " Rose" must only be a family known name.
Sometimes it is necessary to purchase these records. I will also post the other two marriages shown on this schedule.
Now for the Knight boys.
Barry
-
Barry,
If you were to download (link at end of message) the Birth Certificate for the youngest child of Thomas Knight and Margaret Jones - all their children should be recorded on it.
Details for their youngest child;
Arthur Henry Knight - born 1876 - reg number 23438 - Goornang.
https://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home
Also you could purchase the Death certificates for Thomas & Margaret Knight - however I think I would get Arthur Henry's first.
Thomas Knight - died 1905 (age 73) - reg number 1804 - Goornong -
parents - Richard Knight - Ann Porter.
Margaret Knight - died 1919 (age 86) - reg number 17413 - Goornong -
parents - Edward Chaplin Jones - Elizabeth Williams.
EDIT - Who were the Witness to the Marriage of Matilda Knight and Alex Ferguson??
Sarra
-
Given the number of children born before and after Matilda (based on her age at marriage), I would think her registration was simply missed. Like many others I had problems with some early civil registrations. Based on other birth certificates & death certificates my g grandmother was registered with the birthdate of her next younger sister & the sister was not registered at all ???
I would follow Sarra's suggestion with the certificates - and the death of Thomas Knight should be very informative as his wife was still living and hopefully she has listed all her living children. If listed, it may not resolve whether she was definitely natural born to the parents, but I think it would be the most likely option.
Have you searched for any other unregistered children of the couple (based perhaps on death indexes). Is it possible to look for a baptism record, which may exist if the registration does not.
Trish
-
Sarah and Trish,
Thanks again for you assistance.
Your directions certainly help and saves time which I need to collate all the info into my computer.
Witness's at marriage were Alfred Ferguson and Minnie Croswell ( a guess at this signature)
Barry
-
note that all registrations in Bendigo were not forwarded to Melbourne Thomas and Margaret lived at Goornang in Victoria (outside Bendigo) I have quite a bit of info on them at home and will dig it out and forward to you - Thomas and Jonathan had a brother John Porter (my relo) their parents were Richard and Ann (nee Porter) and they lived in Irton Cumberland
-
jordon,
the info you have may just be the missing link we are looking for.
You can forward to me at,
Moderator Comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the secure PM (personal message) system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
thanks in aniticipation
barry
-
hope this is of assistance
children thomas and margaret
Richard Chaplin b 1855 Elizabeth Ann 1857 Edward Thomas 1859 Emma Jane 1862 Thomas 1865 Albert Jonathan 1867 Martha Maria 1870 Alfred Herbert 1872 Arthur Henry 1876 no Rose or Matilda
You could contact Bendigo gen soc and they will search for you for a small fee as I said not all were sent to melbourne
guess u have marriage and children details of Matilda and Alexander
Thomas Knight was christened 27/11/1831
Parents Richard Knight and Ann nee Porter Richard b abt 1811 Irton Cumberland d 30/9/1844 age 32
Residence 1841 Census Millhouse Irton Farmer they married 17/4/1831 by Fred Shaw Curate of Drigg witnesses Thomas Knight, Hannah Porter and Reuben Birkett
Ann married a John Statter after Richard's death
Richard's parents would be a Thomas and Ann who had a Richard about the same time and also a Thomas and both were christened at Corney Cumberland I have been told that Ann's parents were Lancelot and Esther but this does not fit in with the birth dates from the census reports however just before Richard's death Ann had twins and once was called Lancelot!
anyway hope this is useful and anything you can find out on richard and ann would like to hear
-
Jordon ,
thanks for your excellent information.
Iam going to contact Bendigo Gen Society as you suggest re matilda, as all other avenues seem to be of no avail.
Will post any result for info.
barry
-
[/]You could contact Bendigo gen soc and they will search for you for a small fee as I said not all were sent to melbourne[//] Jordon
Perhaps the Bendigo Genealogy Society should bring the existence of these records to the attention of the Victorian Department of Justice, Births, Deaths and Marriages so we could all benefit from the missing records being placed online.
Cando
-
Barry,
I do know there are records that have not been sent to the, Victorian Department of Justice - Registry of Births, Deaths and Marriages.
Another "Chatter" was able to find the Marriage for his Ancestors, which took place in Country Victoria in 1854.
He contacted the Church (Church of England) in the District where his Ancestors lived, also a History Center (can't remember the name). They both had a copy of this Marriage record.
Hope you have some success in finding Matilda's birth.
Cando - I agree these records should be placed Online.
Sarra
-
i would not think the Bendigo geo society would have any idea of what records were not forwarded to melbourne - it was something they mentioned to me when I was in bendigo researching
-
To Terra, Robyn, Nudge, Sarra, Trish, Jordan and other posters,
I have finally received a copy of the death certificate of Thomas Knight #1804 Victoria and it shows the following;
Thomas Knight b 1832 Cumberland Eng, d 27 March 1905 Goornong Vict.
married White Hills, spouse Margaret Knight nee Jones b1833.
Issue;
Richard Chaplain b 1855, Elizabeth Anne b 1857, Edward Thomas b 1859, Emma Jane b 1862, Matilda Rose b 1864, Albert Jonathan b 1867, Martha Maria b 1870, Alfred Herbet b 1872, Arthur Henry b 1876.
There was no child called Thomas.
Jonathan Knight b 1834, the brother of Thomas, had a son called Thomas b 1865 (reg # 12247).....!!
I agree with some of you posters that there must have been a mix up in birth registration entries at that time.....showing another Thomas instead of our Matilda Rose on birth reg # 5724.
I don't know if I will have any success but I 'll notify Vict. Justice Dept Reg. Office of the anomally. I think Cando may have said, "don't hold your breath..."
Thanks guys,
Barry
-
There is a digitised will for Margaret Knight d 13 November 1919 at Goornong. It mentions children Matilda Ferguson, Elizabeth Hayes, Martha Redding, Arthur Henry Knight and grandchildren Myra and Ivy Knight.
I could not see a will for Thomas.
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/Index_search.asp?searchid=54
Judith
-
Hi
My grandmother was Ruby Jane Ferguson, she married Charles Unmack. Her mother was Rose Matilda Ferguson ne Knight. I actually have a photo of her and her bible.
My grandmother had a brother Robert who married Grace they lived in Ripponlea Victoria. There was another brother Leonard he was a train guard and lived in Oakleigh. There was a another two brothers Alfred is buried in St Kilda Cemetary along with Rose. A further brother I think was Ron.
My mother was Ruby Wilson (nee Unmack) Rose divorced
Alexander and re married a man surname Forbes. my email is
Moderator Comment: email address removed as per RootsChat Policy. Please use our secure PM (personal message) system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
-
Hi my grandmother was Ruby Jane Ferguson she married Charles Unmack. Her mother was Rose Matilda Ferguson nee Knight. Rose was her actual name. She is buried in St Kilda cemetary with her son Alfred. Brothers were Robert, Leonard and Ron. Robert married Grace they had a daughter Marge who had a daughter Gillian. Their other daughter was Olwyn.
You can contact me via email
Moderator Comment: email address removed as per RootsChat Policy. Please use our secure PM (personal message) system to share email addresses and other personal information. Thank You.
Regards
Lyn
-
HI I am not related or looking for Knights but just read through the thread. The people on here are amazing. I have recommended it to my cousin in Adelaide. Wow Barry you must be so pleased with the response.
Happy Rootchat member.
C
-
Hi
I would love Barry to contact me as I have Rose Matilda Forbes (nee Ferguson nee Knight) Bible, she was my great grandmother, her address shows she was living in Inkerman Street St Kilda.
My mother was Adele Ruby Wilson (nee Unmack) My grandmother Ruby (Rose Matilda's Daughter), her brother Robert his wife Grace and my mother are the four people in the photo. I also have a photo of Rose Matilda.
Bob & Grace had two daughters one Marge the other Owlyn not sure if there was a son. I do know he had a brother called Neil who lived in Oakleigh on Warrigul Road. I would love somebody to contact me regarding this. I am trying to find out where Alexander Ferguson died.
My grandmother always said she was born in Eaglehawk Bendigo or near there. My mother was born in Castelemaine. I can remember her taking me to the cemetary where Rose and her son Alfred are buried. In fact I have a photo of it.
my email address is (*)
Photo of Rose Matilda Knight
Regards Lyn
Moderator Comment: email address removed AGAIN as per RootsChat Policy. PLEASE DO NOT POST IT AGAIN. Here it is our policy to use our secure PM (personal message) system to share these details.
-
Hi Lyn,
To contact Barry privately click onto his Username Crow41.
This will take you to his details.You will find where you can send Barry a private message.Post your email address on a personal message for him this way noone else can see your email address.
Barry no doubt will be overjoyed with the photo`s and other information you have on this family. :)
Johngirl
-
Lyn,
My family are stunned by your photo's. Our sincere thanks for your interest.
My mother, called Ruby Florence, was daughter of Daisy McNeil Ferguson (married name Allen).
I have a New Testament presented to Daisy's brother, Alfred Ferguson for his Sunday School attendance in 1918. (All Saints Briagolong)
Daisy b 1886 Goornong Vict, married Frederick James Allen in 1907. Their children were Frederick Neil Allen b 1908 Long Gully Bendigo, Ivy May Wilson nee Allen b 1910 Bendigo, Leonard Charles Allen b 1911 Pt Pirie SA, Ruby b 1914 Pt Pirie SA.
I recall travelling to St Kilda with my Gran Daisy to visit her relies, but can't remember their names.
Alexander Ferguson b 1863 Fitzroy Vict.d 1933 Albury NSW, married Matilda Rose Knight in 1885, they divorced in 1912. Matilda remarried in 1917to William Forbes (of Briagolong)
Matilda's parents ,Thomas and Margaret nee Jones are buried in Goornong Vict. cemetery (headstones)
Alexander's parents, John Steele Ferguson and Grace nee McNeil, are buried in Runnymede Vict cemetery (headstone). also buried with them are their sons, Alfred d 1903 and Washington George d 1928. Another son James is buried Rochester Vict cemetery (no marking on grave).
Thanks,
Barry
-
attached is photo of Alexander Ferguson 1863-1933...first husband of Rose Matilda Knight
-
attached is photo of Thomas Knight 1831-1905, father of Rose Matilda Knight
-
Hi Barrie
As I had not used this for sometime I had a bit of trouble opening. Have now done so I am amazed at these photos and would love to know where you got them from.
Regards
Lyn
-
Thomas Knight and Margaret Jones 50th wedding anniversary 1904
-
Thomas Knight and Margaret Jones 50th wedding anniversary - people in photo each given a ref number, chech this number with the name list following.
-
Thomas Knight and Margaret Jones 50th wedding anniv - photo names list
-
Margaret Knight nee Jones 1833 - 1919
-
Arthur Henry Knight 1876 - 1953
-
Albert Jonathon Knight 1867 - 1945
-
Amy Knight nee Youla (spouse of AJ Knight)
-
Alfred Herbet Knight 1872 - 1949
-
Maybe a little of a tangent, but; James Frederick Wilson, the husband of Ivy May Allen was the son of my greatgrandfathers brother.
-
Hi
Do you think he wasn't related to Daisy Ferguson daughter of Rose Matilda Knight and Alexander a Ferguson, daisy married a Allen, they seperate, I believe she died in Adelaide she was my great aunt.
Regards
Lyn