RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: stonechat on Sunday 01 February 09 08:28 GMT (UK)
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From Ancestry's help pages
As part of our ongoing commitment to providing our members with the richest and most diverse set of historical records, in a world first Ancestry.co.uk will shortly launch online the collection of the London Metropolitan Archives, which predates civil registration in 1837 and date as far back as the 1500s.
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Might just have to take up a membership again then! ;D
Can it really be true, will I be able to find all those missing London ancestors? ::)
Kerry
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Question is what are going to be included?
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Hi
I am looking forward to it so that I can trace all of my missing London ancestors as well.
Ben
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Looked at the LMA website and saw this
http://www.rootschat.com/links/04ag
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Thanks Stonechat
That sounds very positive and I hope it lives up to expectation. Its could potentially be very useful to me.
Kerry
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Hi
This will also be very useful to me and will no doubt knock down a few more brickwalls and may help in finding my 4xgreat grandfather George Coombs.
Ben
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Similar post here
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,342652.0.html
and LMA announcement page here
http://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/LGNL_Services/Leisure_and_culture/Records_and_archives/Ancestry+digitisation.htm
On my last trip to the LMA I asked how the project was going, 'slowly' was the reply, the first records to go on-line will most probably be the Board of Guardians and Poor Law records. Parish registers are some way off, towards the end of the year.
Dawn
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Hi
When I have been to the LMA I have trawled through many Board Of Guardians and Poor Law Records for Holborn and Shoreditch. They are very fascinating and those that survive can be as good as censuses and birth certs.
An 1878 poor law document for my ancestor Thomas Roberts lists him, his wife and all their children including their names and ages. It also says where the parents married and Thomas occupation, reason for seeking relief, and his addresses in the past 18 months, of which 3 were listed, including his current address of 69 Leather Lane, Holborn.
Poor law records are worth their weight in gold.
Ben
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Well if they are as good as those I have seen for Sussex they will certainly add another dimension to London research.
Interesting choice for the first release, perhaps the easier records.
Kerry
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Hi
It will make a change from having to wait until I visit London to do research. I have been to the LMA countless times. It is a very welcoming place.
Ben
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Never been but it is on my wish list ;D
Kerry
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Hi
It is a brilliant place. It has many London archives from admission orders for workhouses to major London business archives. Parish registers, poor law, newspapers, plans, court records, business holdings, Metropolitan Board Of Works archives type ups, photos, and more.
Ben
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Well the LMA records seem to now be on ancestry. My current subscription does not allow me to see them. I'd be more then happy to upgrade since most of my family came from London, however, it would be useful to know before I fork out anymore money exactly what the various records reveal
Jillie
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Hi Jillie
As expected it's only the Poor Law and Board of Guardians (workhouse) records that are there so far.
http://landing.ancestry.co.uk/lma/london.aspx
I don't have a subscrption either or the name of someone to look for so can't help further at this time.
Dawn
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I was wondering to myself if this 'new' database is on the "Library Edition".
I was going to have a look when I go down to my local library tomorrow.
Pauline
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There are also births/baptisms and death/burials from 1834, so a couple of years pre registration so far. It is Premium Membership required for access - might be worth it when they get a bit more up.
Robert
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Hi Pauline
Apparently not in Library edition, I've checked and couldn't find it, unless they've hidden it somewhere. I've sent them an email request about it.
If you look at the Ancestry home page they say they have it 'exclusively'.
Will let you know.
Dawn
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I'd wait a while if you intend to upgrade membership, its definately not worth doing at the moment unless your whole family was born and died in the workhouse since thats all that is on at the moment and even then the coverage is fairly patchy. I think its a taster for things to come to be honest, although I've found a few sideline deaths in the workhouse so far. The one I really wanted was the Wandsworth area from the 1850s but they're not on yet.
Nicola
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Had a look for some births which I know should be there but they're not. (I have exact dates of births and baptisms).
Also checked for any births/baptisms for a fairly unusual name, and nothing there.
When specifying an exact search, with names and dates, I was still given loads of irrelevant stuff.
This is despite the births and baptisms dates supposedly covering 1834 to 1906.
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Will this be free to view at Kew?
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This is despite the births and baptisms dates supposedly covering 1834 to 1906.
You can browse down through the sections as well as search which gives an indication of whats there and what isn't for each area. Some have more than others.
Don't know about Kew, but there should be access in the LMA itself.
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Thanks smud - I will have a look ... :)
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Had a look for some births which I know should be there but they're not. (I have exact dates of births and baptisms).
Also checked for any births/baptisms for a fairly unusual name, and nothing there.
When specifying an exact search, with names and dates, I was still given loads of irrelevant stuff.
This is despite the births and baptisms dates supposedly covering 1834 to 1906.
Hi Ruskie
It seems to be that only some areas are covered so far, I searched on proven facts and couldn't find them so can only assume that area is not yet there.
Kerry
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Just had a message from another chatter, the LMA dataset is on library edition,
if you click on 'recent' databases on the front page and scroll down to the 24th March they are hidden there.
Strange though that the site doesn't find the titles when you search for them.
Anyway, access is there, hurray.
(There is Ancestry.co.uk access at Kew and the LMA)
Dawn
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I upgraded my membership to able to search but still couldn't find the person I'm looking for and I know from her birth certificate she was definitely born in the workhouse in Southwark.
What would be more useful is a list on ancestry of exactly which workhouses have been added and which ones are still to come.
From googling various London workhouse sites regarding southwark I still can't work out how many were in the union and whether the one I require is actually covered by ancestry's data base.
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I can't find anywhere that explains what exactly what has been loaded and what will be loaded. I can a list of districts but I don't think everything has been loaded within those districts.
Kerry
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I don't have a sub at Ancestry, but went there today to see if I could find any of my relatives. I must be doing something wrong because not only can I not find any Happe's or Rondeau's,but even my Jones and Wood names don't come up on any searches.
Now I am prepared to believe that there may be no Happe's or Rondeau's, but Jones and Wood?
I've seen nothing to tempt me to spend a couple of hundred pounds yet.
Unless I'm doing something very wrong. Searching the Poor Law section, puting the names into the keyword search.
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"I've seen nothing to tempt me to spend a couple of hundred pounds yet."
Annual premium membership is £107.40 which, although somewhat higher than I've been used to paying over the last few years, works out at about £2 a week. So not too bad if you compare it to the cost of other hobbies/pastimes and take account of the convenience of 24/7 access (with on occasion glass of wine in hand!).
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"I've seen nothing to tempt me to spend a couple of hundred pounds yet."
Annual premium membership is £107.40 which, although somewhat higher than I've been used to paying over the last few years, works out at about £2 a week. So not too bad if you compare it to the cost of other hobbies/pastimes and take account of the convenience of 24/7 access (with on occasion glass of wine in hand!).
Well, I stumped up the difference between the subscription I had and the one I needed to view the records. Not a single ancestor anywhere. I guess that's the risk you take. It's weird because I have a birth certificate stating that my gt grandmother was born in one of these workhouses.
Anyone know when the parish registers are due to be included on the database?
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I already have a full subscription to Find My Past. Their search engine is far superior (IMO) so to buy Ancestry as well for the few extra bits it offers would be truly guilding the lily, especially as the LMA is quite easy for me to visit.
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Where do the records that Ancestry are adding come from? I ask because I'm a bit confused. When FindMyPast took over the FFHS site familyhistoryonline they have not been given all the data because of disputes, so how come Ancestry can get hold of data which I would have thought came from the same places??
Kerry
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This new information has never been online before
Some diocese apparently had a problem with a commercial organisation (FindMyPast) that they did not with the FFHS website
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So presumably Ancestry sourced their information from elsewhere other than diocese?
Kerry
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All the records going online are from the deposits at the London Metropolitan Archives.
The whole project won't be finished for months yet, and into 2010.
Dawn
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All the records going online are from the deposits at the London Metropolitan Archives.
Dawn
And the Guildhall Library
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So what's Ancestry got that FindMyPast hasn't then?! :-\
Kerry
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Well the only things I miss are the full 1851 census (coming on FindMyPast) and Pallots marriage register.
Oh, and several million US records.
I can never find anything of use on Ancestry. I even signed up for a free 14 days (sis was going to buy me an Ancestry sub for my birthday) and I clicked the wrong button and they gave me a 14 day trial for their most basic subscription and it was useless. Even when I called them to ask to be switched to the worldwide one (bearing in mind I would probably have bought it after the free 14 days finished) they were most unhelpful, so I though 'sod it' I'll stay with FindMyPast. I cancelled their 14 day trial after 48 hours.
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I have been advised that the LMA parish register collection will be updated and put online on the 14th or 15th September.
The addition of more records from the LMA collection to the Ancestry database has been eagerly awaited for several months now.
However, please note:
It is not permitted to ask for, or offer lookups from, any commercial or copyrighted databases, for example Ancestry, Findmypast, The Genealogist, the IGI and others, too many to list here.
The Copyright team works hard to ensure that any request or offer which contravenes the Terms & Conditions is dealt with by its removal.
Dawn
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How are people finding looking through these records?
I'm having a play with them now, and have found a couple of entries that I already have certificates for just as a test. 1 of them, in St. Mary Newington was particularly difficult to find, as I didn't realise the the Church of St. Paul and the Parish Church were in the same section as it didn't tell me. Trying to find others is a bit of a pain. Also I don't think there's a complete year coverage up yet for some of the parishes already up.
Does anyone know whether a name search will appear at a later date?
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there is a name search for some years - but not for the pre 1812
I have found it a great help and have found several infants who were born and died between censuses thatI didnt know about before, also confirmed a marriage was the 'right one' by seeing the parish register with address and fathers names ... so i'm not complaining!
But of course it makes me want a wider range accessible because the more questions you find answers for, the more questions you raise in this hobby!
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Well I have found quite a few in the unindexed records
However at least one book in these is purely a book of accounts!
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there is a name search for some years - but not for the pre 1812
I have found it a great help and have found several infants who were born and died between censuses thatI didnt know about before, also confirmed a marriage was the 'right one' by seeing the parish register with address and fathers names ... so i'm not complaining!
But of course it makes me want a wider range accessible because the more questions you find answers for, the more questions you raise in this hobby!
Ah, you mean the workhouse/poor law records? I haven't found anything in those yet.
I've been looking at the new Marriage and Banns 1754 to 1921 database, which appeared in the last few days. You're definitely right about the wider range - I'm really looking forward to when the promised school records arrive. I think that'll really be helpful.
stonechat, I found a random page of 1816 records in with some 1899 records earlier on!!! Haven't discovered any accounts yet.
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No I mean christenings and marriages ...!
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Yes, I see what you mean now - the problem I was having was that the search box for the marriages isn't appearing on our AncestryLibrary down here - havn't a clue why. I managed to get to the search another way.
Sorry :)
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Fantastic
Baptism records with birth dates have already solved my Scavenger hunt.
Two "missing" daughters have been found with their marriages . Possibles on freebmd but saved me £14 at the least to get certificates.
Also been able to confirm IGI extracted records and more details than from Pallots.
Easier if you know the likely churches where the details are registered, but not impossible to find some gems.
A banns record has thrown up a family mystery. Was elder daughter engaged to man who younger dau. (under age) married or did younger use sisters name to get banns called? From later divorce records she would be (charitably) called a "Trollop"
great new source for those of us who cannot get to the LMA and have relied on the generosity of Dawn, Velda , and others to help.
Spring
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I agree Spring
I am so happy because I have at last solved the problem of my gr x 2 grandfather William Baldwin who's baptism and birth I could not find. 5 mnutes on the LMA records on ancestry and I found him! ;D Baptised two years earlier and with a different middle name. Have now found and ordered the birth certificate.
Oh you should have seen me dancing round the room, Friday night ::) ;D
Brilliant resource.
Kerry
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I've now noticed that LMA records are now coming up as hints for some individuals on my Ancestry tree, only a matter of weeks after the introduction of the new records ! Excellent :)
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I know envy is a sin but my mothers line is hidden in St George Hanover Sq. That means a researcher.
Ed
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Don't worry Ed, some my answers lie in St Giles in the Field. ::) :) It hasn't all been plain sailing.
Kerry
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I imagine that there are more than a few researchers in the same boat however I have to admit that I did find some info re some some of my twigs.It is the main branch where the problem lies.
Ed