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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: tay on Wednesday 28 January 09 11:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Help look up
Post by: tay on Wednesday 28 January 09 11:44 GMT (UK)
Hi
Please could you help me l am looking for two relatives and cannot find anything,

Thomas Bell ( Draper ) shows ( deceased ) on wedding cert of Matthew Dawson Bell and Lily Bate dated 1931 At Durham Register Office 1934 and also nothing on John Bate ( coal Miner ) ( deceased ) also on marriage certificate.

l have tried to find death certs with no luck. l really would like to start my family tree but l am lost, please if anyone can help l would be so grateful,

Tay
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 28 January 09 12:00 GMT (UK)
I see Matthew Dawson Bell was born 1903.

When was Thomas born?

Have you discounted all the various Thomas Bell deaths which show on freeBMD between 1904 and 1934?  http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

And ditto for John Bate?

Jennifer
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 January 09 12:03 GMT (UK)
We need more to go on Tay.

What was the age of Matthew and Lily on the marriage cert also  witnesses names help

We might then be able to trace Matthew especially back through the census records.
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone

l am so sorry and i even read the instructions i am so sorry

Matthew Dawson bell was born 25/12/ 1902 he was 28 on marg cert but he was reg  at chester-le-street 1903 His mother was Mary Bell formerly Dawson and his dad thomas Bell.

 l found Matthews death age 54 oct nov dec 1957, l think ???????

Lily Bate was 23 when she married matthew which is 1911 l have know birth date for my grandmother  my family are not so forth coming?????? lilys farther is John Bate.

so l am working blind at mo as l have had no help from family

thankyou

tay

Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:10 GMT (UK)
Oh sorry Witnesses are J.W Bailey and Hilda Bailey which l found was her sister

tay
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 January 09 15:58 GMT (UK)
Quote
Matthew Dawson bell was born 25/12/ 1902

Oh thats a pain we cant trace him in 1901.... I cant see a Thomas Bell either  :(
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 January 09 16:10 GMT (UK)
This is the family in 1901

Rg13/4677/69/11

67 Hamilton Road, Durham.

John Bate h.m 26 Coal Miner (Hewer)  b. Worcster, Dudley.
Margaret wife 22 b Durham
Hilda dau 5 mths b Waterhouses
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Wednesday 28 January 09 17:02 GMT (UK)
hi patrish

Thank you very much for your help.

on the marriage cert it shows number 40 Hamilton in 1934 do you think they moved up the road,
also this means john bate was born in 1875,

l dont seem to be able to find anything on Thomas Bell either and it shows he is a draper,

you are so helpful thank you very much

tay :D :D
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 January 09 17:22 GMT (UK)
Quote
on the marriage cert it shows number 40 Hamilton in 1934 do you think they moved up the road,

Yes Tay, this happend often as thier family expanded. ;D

Quote
john bate was born in 1875,

I dont think the life expectancy of a miner in those day was very long due to the nature of the work and the conditions .

I cant find anything on Thomas in 1901 but he may be deceased as we dont know his age.

I also tried to find the Bate family in the new 1911 perhaps to narrow down his death but no joy..... I dont think all of this census is available yet though. :-\
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 January 09 17:28 GMT (UK)
Have you got the birth cert of Matthew Dawson Bell as it would show his mothers name  ??? that might help with a census search.
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Wednesday 28 January 09 17:34 GMT (UK)
Hi

Yes his mothers name is Mary bell ( Dawson ) at 14 ash Terrace Grangeville

hope this helps

thank you very much
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 28 January 09 17:36 GMT (UK)
[I also tried to find the Bate family in the new 1911 perhaps to narrow down his death but no joy..... I dont think all of this census is available yet though. :-\

Durham not yet available.....coming 'soon'.
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 28 January 09 17:53 GMT (UK)
I cant find anything on Thomas in 1901 but he may be deceased as we dont know his age.

He should be alive then, since Matthew wasn't born until December 1902.

There is a death of a John Bates aged 40  in the 1st quarter of 1916 ( i.e. born 1876) Durham 10a 463.

Possible marriage, John Bate married Margaret Jenkins in 1899 (from Durham Registrar's search).

Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Wednesday 28 January 09 18:12 GMT (UK)
Hi

This is going to be really hard, but l will keep going l wont give up, thank you very much for all your help and taking the time to look for me its very much appreciated again thank you

tay xxx
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 28 January 09 18:25 GMT (UK)
Quote
He should be alive then, since Matthew wasn't born until December 1902.

Of course JenB , silly me...a senior moment  ;D
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: JenB on Wednesday 28 January 09 19:06 GMT (UK)
If all else fails you could get the marriage certificate for Thomas Bell and Mary Dawson, which would give you Thomas's age.
The only Bell/ Dawson marriage I can find in County Durham is: 4th quarter 1891, Lanchester 10a 428.
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Thursday 29 January 09 20:20 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone

Thank you for all your messages you are all so nice and helpful. l have had a look around today and l think l have found them

1901 census  Thomas bell comes from Ireland, where he and Mary are living in pelton Ash street, Thomas is shown as age 32 and Mary 27, she was born Quebec Co-Durham and have 4 children.

l am not sure but marriage OCT-Dec Quarter 1891 Lanchester ref 10a/428

l am not 100% but seems to fit but this game is soooooooooooooo hard,

WHAT DO YOU THINK

Tay xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: JenB on Thursday 29 January 09 21:39 GMT (UK)
This may well be 'your' Thomas Bell - but is there anything in the census return you've found which gives conclusive proof that he is the right person, apart from the fact that he has the right name and he's married to someone called Mary?
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Thursday 29 January 09 22:54 GMT (UK)
Tay....  I have sent you  a private message re the look up for the Lanchester marriage.

Patrish  :)
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 30 January 09 09:49 GMT (UK)
Tay - perhaps the best course is to wait until the 1911 census is available online for County Durham (later this year, hopefully). Then you should be able to find Matthew Dawson Bell (born 1903) with his family. Having got the correct family you should then have a better chance of tracing them backwards through the previous censuses. At the moment it is guesswork  :(

Jennifer
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Friday 30 January 09 10:36 GMT (UK)
Hi

Its very hard to do a family tree and very easy to get carried away, so l am going to sort out correct cert and then try again.

thank you for you help

tay xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: JenB on Friday 30 January 09 11:00 GMT (UK)
Tay....  I have sent you  a private message re the look up for the Lanchester marriage.

Hi patrish, it would be interesting to know what you know about the possible marriage  ???
Jennifer  :)
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: tay on Friday 30 January 09 11:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Patrish and jen b

you both are so helpful. l am so interested about my family tree, think its due to not been told anything, all l know is Matthew Bell my grandad worked down the pits, he was also given a Gold watch for bravery but carnt find what for. got this info from my gran mother before she passed away, l was very young then and did not see the meaning at the time, my nan Lily Bell ( bate ) was also the first manakin ( model ) for the Co-op in Newcastle, they always lived in Stanley Billy Row Crook Durham. Also she said that my grandad was a pigeon lover and raced them for Billy row and one got lost never came home. but then they received a telegram from a famous Boxer how was also a Pigeon lover had his pigeon down in cornwall and they became very good friends and my grandad spent holidays at his home, that is all l know about my family, so its hard but i will get some info

you are both so nice in helping me

tay xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: patrish on Wednesday 11 February 09 13:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Tay,
 
Got this information for you, the cert is quite hard to read but I will do my best.

7.11.1891 The Parish Church in the Parish of Beamish in the county of Durham

Thomas Bell 22 years batchelor profession Miner residing at Shuto? Row... father Robert Bell profession Miner.

Mary Dawson 17 years spinster  residing at On Hill? father Richard Dawson profession Miner

Witnesses...... Richard Cummings and Ann Dawson.




1891 Rg12/4086 769 Living Shield Row.

Robert Bell h.m. 52 Miner b Ireland
Margaret wife 49                   
Jane dau 24                           
Thomas son 22 miner               
Robert son  19 miner
James son 17 miner
Margaret dau 15 B Collierly, Durham
William son 11 Scholar b Tanfield
Matthew son 8 
Elizabeth dau 6   







1901 Rg13/4664/149 living Railway Terrace

Robert Bell h.m. 63 Cow Keeper and Sexton b Ireland
Margaret wife 60
William son 21 Drapers Assistant
Matthew son 18
Elizabeth dau 16.




1901  RG13/4600/20 Living Ash Street, Pelton. Co,. Durham

Thomas Bell 32 miner b Ireland
Mary wife 27 b Durham Quebec
Florence ? dau 9 b Durham Oxhill
John son 7 b Kyo
Frederick son 3 b Kyo
Arthur son 1 b Kyo.

Baptism 18.1.1874 Mary Dawson dau of Richard a miner  and Elizabeth b Quebec

Children of Thomas and Mary  at Collerly

18.4.1894 John Bell
17/2/1897 Frederick Bell
17.1.1900 Arthur Bell.



1891 RG12/4088/41 living 80 Joiceys Terrace, Oxhill

Richard Dawson h.m. 46 miner b Durham, Coxhoe
Elizabeth wife 43 b Cumberland?
Ann dau 20 b Beamish
Mary dau 17 B Esh?
Matthew son 14 miner b Beamish
Elizabeth dau 12
Jos 9
Esther J dau 6
Isabella dau 3

I will check the census images myself later to see if I can clarify anything that I am not sure of, as  these were done by my cousin.

Patrish  :)





               




 
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: John4270 on Monday 07 March 11 22:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Tay
On my Jenkins tree I have Margaret Jenkins & John Bate so I can help you if you still need it
Margaret was my gr uncles daughter
Regards
Shirley
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: John4270 on Monday 07 March 11 22:25 GMT (UK)
Ignore last post I put it on wrong one
Shirley
Title: Re: Help look up
Post by: John4270 on Monday 07 March 11 22:29 GMT (UK)
Dont ignore last
Im having one of those days
I was on the right post
Shirley