RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Hampshire & Isle of Wight => Topic started by: Lorretta on Wednesday 28 January 09 07:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Wednesday 28 January 09 07:36 GMT (UK)
I have Colin Kemp (1858) marrying Caroline Gibb(s) (1857) and they had the following children:-

William 1881 East Grinstead
Thomas 1883 Headley
Beatrice 1885 Headley
Charles 1887 Headley
Frank 1889 Headley
Kate 1891 Headley
George 1894 Headley
Daisy May 1896 Headley
Martin Wilfred 1898 Headley
Robert 1901 Headley

Can you guys find anything out about them? 

Thank you, Lorretta xxx
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Little Nell on Wednesday 28 January 09 12:30 GMT (UK)
I think that perhaps you have the marriage certificate?  Can you give the names & occupations of their fathers, please.  Then perhaps someone can find them reliably on the 1861 census, although Colin can't be that common a name in the mid 19th century.

Nell
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 28 January 09 12:51 GMT (UK)
possibly caroline
1871
RG10/1058/5/6.
eliza gibb age 54. b. withyham,sussex. occ. charwoman. head.(widowed)
caroline age 12. b. east grinstead. occ. servant. daughter.
living at;high street,east grinstead,sussex.
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:05 GMT (UK)


Hello   :D

You're right Nell -  only the one - and he keeps being born in the same place  :D

1861
RG9.  P. 705  Fol. 148  Pg. 8


Selbourne, Hants

KEMP  ( Indexed Hemp  :( )
Thomas  Head  M   27   Bricklayer    B. Hants, Selbourne
Jane  Wife  M  26                             B.  Sussex, Petworth
Colin  Son  2                                    B.  Surrey, Farnham
Georgina  Dau  1                             B.  Hants. Selbourne

There's a Thomas Kemp aged 70 also a bricklayer next door   ;D

I'll see if he might be Thomas' dad  :D
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:16 GMT (UK)


Yes   :)    Think he is   :)

1851
HO107.  P. 1679  Fol. 272  Pg. 2


Forisside, Selbourne

KEMP
Thomas  Head  M  59  Bricklayer
Maria  Wife  M  56
Charles  Son  Un  23       ~
Thomas  Son  Un  19       ~
George  Son  16              ~
Eli  Son  16                      ~
Jane  Dau  12
Lucy  Dau  9
Daniel  Grandson  8

all born Selbourne, Hants
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:23 GMT (UK)


1841
HO107  P. 382/17  Fol 33  Pg. 6 & 7


Blackmore, Selbourne

KEMP
Thomas  50  Bricklayer
Maria  45
John  15
Ester  15
Charles  12
Harriet  10
Thomas  9
George  7
Eli  4
Jane  2

all born in county
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 14:10 GMT (UK)


Looking for marriages for the two Thomas'

There is a submitted IGI entry for Thomas Kemp and Maria Voakes in Selbourne 9 April 1819

This will need checking on parish registers.

The only marriage for a Thomas and Jane I can find in the time period seems to be

Thomas Kemp  /  Jane Snelling  Q1. 1856  Westhampnett Vol. 2b. Pg. 387

This would fit with Jane being born in Sussex.

BUT -  I can't find a Jane Snelling in 1851 or 1841 who fits the profile, although there is a Snellen family with a Jane in 1841 living in Fittleworth.

On the 1871 census Jane says born Hiddlesworth -  could be Fittleworth ?

Can someone comment on this, please ?

Here's the family in 1871

1871
RG10  P. 1226  Fol. 134 Pg. 18


Cottage Blackham, Selbourne

KEMP
Thomas  Head  M  38  Builder  B.  Hants Selbourne
Jane  Wife  M  37                     B.  Sussex. Hiddlesworth (?)
Colin  Son  12                          B.  Surrey, Farnham
Georgina  Dau  10                   B. Hants, Selbourne
Michael  Son  9                        B. Hants, Greatham
Frank  Son  7                           B.  Hants, Selbourne
Martin  Son  5                          B.    ~              ~
Keturah  Dau  5 mth.               B.     ~            ~
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Wednesday 28 January 09 16:23 GMT (UK)
Thank you Wozzle and Mum44, this info is really great. 

Little Nell, I don't have a marriage certificate for them yet, lucky for me a relative knew Caroline's maiden name.  The childrens births/bapt came from the local church records (William's bapt took place in East Grinstead).

Is it possible to find out anything about Colin and Caroline's children?  Or can you advise were to look for information on them?

Thanks for your time on this.

Lorretta xxx
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 16:54 GMT (UK)


Just sticking with the older Kemps for a moment   :D

I've found the confirmation of the marriage:

Thomas Kemp married Maria Voakes 9 April 1819 St Mary's Church Selbourne.
Witnesses were Ann Voakes and Elisha Kemp.

This is possibly  Eli, Thomas' brother from the 1841 census.

The Kemp family in Selbourne goes back a long way  -  and they nearly all seem to have been Bricklayers.

Thomas was baptised there 21 Dec 1791, his parents were George Kemp, a bricklayer, and Martha.

George Kemp married Martha Bide October 1771

There are quite a few children  -  let me know if you want them - don't want to swamp you   ;D
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Wednesday 28 January 09 17:27 GMT (UK)
Wow!  Who am I to stop a Mum in her tracks?!!! 

That info would be greatly appreciated if you have the time to spare. Thank you  ;D 
Lorretta xxx
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 19:23 GMT (UK)
Loretta   ;D

George Kemp married Martha Bide 1771

George and Martha were Colin's Great Grandparents.

Their children were:

George  27 Dec 1773  (George a mason)
William  18 Jan 1776
Ann 17 June 1778   (George given as Bricklayer for the first time)
Martha  30 Oct 1781
James  17 Aug 1783
Hannah  14 Aug 1785  (b. 21 July)
Ann Maria  25 Feb 1787  (b. 2 Feb)
Richard  29 June 1788  ( b. 11 June)
Elisha  13 Apr 1790  (b. 13 Mar)   witness to Thomas' marriage
Thomas  31 Dec 1791
Hori  21 Apr 1794  (b. 25 Mar)
Sarah  7 Nov  1795  (b. 7 Oct)

Date of birth missing for Thomas  -  the one you really need!

Thomas b. 1791  married Maria Voakes 1819

They were Colin's grandparents.

Maria Volkes baptised 14 Oct 1796 (b. 12 Oct)  parents Samuel and Maria Volkes

Samuel and Maria were Colins Great Grandparents.

Samuel Volks of Headley married Maria Cooper of Selbourne
2 August 1791
Witnesses were Daniel Loo and John Bricknell

Their children were:
Avice  27 Apr 1792 (b. Mar 28)
William  20 May 1793  (b. Apr 21)
Charles  6 Oct 1794  (B. Oct 6)
Maria  
Thomas  14 Feb 1800


Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 19:45 GMT (UK)
Wozzle found Caroline in 1871 - again, there seems to be only on Caroline Gibb b. Sussex at that time.


Ah - but there are Gibb(s)

Better look again   ::)

Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 28 January 09 20:41 GMT (UK)


Well  :-\

The Caroline whom Eliza found in 1871 was born East Grinstead :

Caroline Gibb  Q4. 1858 East Grinstead  Vol. 2b. Pg. 98

And I think you're best sending for that birth certificate  :)
Because - this looks like the family in 1861:

1861
RG. 9.  P. 579  Fol. 56  Pg. 1


Chevelers End, East Grinstead

GIBB
Thomas  Head  M  44  Labourer  B.  East Grinstead
Eliza  Wife  M  47                        B. Sussex Withyam
Emma  Dau  11                           B.  Sussex  Wadhurst
Harriet  Dau  6                            B.  Sussex East Grinstead
Ellen  Dau  4                               B.       ~            ~
Dedernia  Dau  2                        B.       ~               ~

There is no registration for that name  ???

Also, Ellen would seem to have been registered Gibbs  - with an S

And - Colin Kemp married Q3. 1880 Romford Vol. 4a. Pg. 268  to Caroline Gibbs  with an S.
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 28 January 09 22:47 GMT (UK)
possible marriage of one of the children of colin/caroline kemp
name; martin.w.kemp
y.o.r. 1926
qtr. apr/may/jun.
dist; farnham
county; hampshire,surrey,sussex
vol. 2a
page. 345
wifes name. gladys.m.dopson.
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: wozzle on Wednesday 28 January 09 22:57 GMT (UK)
another possible
name; frank kemp
y.o.r. 1921
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; farnham
vol. 2
page. 285
wife; ethel.g.neal.
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: erica lyn on Wednesday 28 January 09 23:05 GMT (UK)
I have Colin Kemp (1858) marrying Caroline Gibb(s) (1857) and they had the following children:-

William 1881 East Grinstead
Thomas 1883 Headley
Beatrice 1885 Headley
Charles 1887 Headley
Frank 1889 Headley
Kate 1891 Headley
George 1894 Headley
Daisy May 1896 Headley
Martin Wilfred 1898 Headley
Robert 1901 Headley

Can you guys find anything out about them? 

Thank you, Lorretta xxx


There is this brilliant website about Headley www.johnowensmith.co.uk/headley/
There's lots of information to read through but there are lots of Kemp references.
Your Kemp family are in the 1891 and 1901 census pages. Colin Kemp, Carpenter, is listed in the Directories from 1889-1935. Most of the children can be found in the Baptisms section and under Monumental Inscriptions the name of Frank Kemp can be found on the WW1 memorial and there is a William Kemp who died 1956 aged 74 and married an Edith Mary. It's well worth a browse  ;D
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: erica lyn on Wednesday 28 January 09 23:21 GMT (UK)
From the site I gave you above:

Kemp, Frank R.G.A Died of Influenza in France in Dec 1918 aged 29. Son of Mr Colin Kemp of Hearne.

Looks as if George, Thomas, Charles and Martin also served - www.johnowensmith.co.uk/headley/ww1list.htm
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Thursday 29 January 09 07:33 GMT (UK)
Oh.....my......God!!!  Thank you so much,  Mum 44 that info is excellent and will keep me going for just a little while!  I will send for birth cert. of Caroline to make sure, thank you.  Erica, thank you for that link, I've had a peek, looks good!   Wozzle thank for the marriages, they look promising!

Can you guys find out anything about Thomas 1883, Beatrice 1885 and Robert 1901?

As always thank you for your time, your stars!!!  Lorretta xxx
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: wozzle on Thursday 29 January 09 11:41 GMT (UK)
think the martin.w.kemp marriage is looking quiet good
i have 2 children from that marriage
if you want the full entries then i will send them via the personal message system
due to to fact both could still be alive.
mick
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: wozzle on Thursday 29 January 09 12:03 GMT (UK)
with regard to erica lyns reply saying william kemp married a edith mary
this looks promising
marriage
name willim colin kemp
y.o.r. 1904
qtr oct/nov/dec
dist; alton
county; hampshre
vol. 2c
page; 369
this is the only name on the marriage index
but there is a edith mary hall who is the only name shown as well and and the vol and page and place and date are the same
the reason they are not on the same page is that ediths page number is down as 359 but on the actual image it is 369.
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: wozzle on Thursday 29 January 09 12:09 GMT (UK)
again 2 possible children from the marr of william/edith mary.
same applies possibly alive still one born 1911 and one born 1915
if you want the full entry then again i will send them via p.m.
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Thursday 29 January 09 12:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks Wozzle that would be great if you could send them.  Any luck on those other 3?
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Thursday 29 January 09 12:55 GMT (UK)


There are two marriages registered in Alton (Headley's district) in 1910:

Charles Kemp Q4. 1910  Vol. 2c.  pg. 433
Nellie M Walker and Eva L White on the page

one child mother's maiden name Walker born 1912.

Frank Kemp  Q4. 1910  Vol.2c  Pg. 427
Emily Lawrence the only name shown

(since the later marriage for Frank found by Wozzle  is obviously not him   :D )
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Thursday 29 January 09 13:07 GMT (UK)
Thanks Mum.  Charles was my great grandad he married Nellie Maria Walker.  They had Charles Goldie Colin Kemp (1912), my grandad,  John James (1915) and Helen Beatrice (1927). 

Well done for Frank!
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Mum44 on Thursday 29 January 09 13:13 GMT (UK)

Wow !  so George Kemp and Martha Bide were your 5 great grand parents!

Lucky you   :D  7 generations   :D
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Thursday 29 January 09 17:09 GMT (UK)
Thanks to you guys I have 7 generations  ;). 

I guess Thomas, Beatrice and Robert are proving difficult to find.  Any ideas  ???

Thank you!  Lorretta xxx
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: wozzle on Friday 30 January 09 11:51 GMT (UK)
do you know if beatrice had a middle name only there is a beatrice bertha kemp who married in the farnham dist in 1908 husband either frank raven blyth or wiliam patrick browne
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Friday 30 January 09 16:08 GMT (UK)
No I don't have a middle name for Beatrice, is it a case of looking for Beatrice Bertha's birth to see if they are the same person?  I only have Thomas, Beatrice and Robert's births, I have found out a little on each of the other siblings. 

Thanks for your help  ;D
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: erica lyn on Friday 30 January 09 18:29 GMT (UK)
Hi

I was looking for potential Beatrices on the 1911 census. Putting in first name Beatrice, using wildcard for surname (to account for her possibly being married), birth date 1885 +or- 2yrs, and specifying birth in Headley. This gave two results:

Beatrice Kemp b.1886 age 25 Servant living Farnham Hampshire
Beatrice M Tucker b.1886 age 25 Servant living Alton Hampshire

Then I saw Wozzle's message
do you know if beatrice had a middle name only there is a beatrice bertha kemp who married in the farnham dist in 1908 husband either frank raven blyth or wiliam patrick browne
and found:
Frank Raven Blyth age 26 living with a Beatrice Blyth age 23 in West Ham Essex

Haven't looked at the transcripts so can't confirm marital status of any of these people, but I think the first Beatrice looks most promising.

Found Robert on 1911, listed as 'Bob' age 10. Couldn't find a likely candidate for Thomas though ???
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Friday 30 January 09 19:02 GMT (UK)
Thanks Erica, that info is brilliant.  I have same info as johnowensmith has and that is all.  Why can't Thomas be found?  ???

Any other ideas?
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: erica lyn on Tuesday 10 February 09 19:11 GMT (UK)
Suggesting a theory about Thomas.

The WW1 list on the John Owen Smith website has 5 of the Kemp brothers listed.  Thomas is a Serjeant in the Royal Field Artillery.  I wonder if Thomas was already in the army prior to 1914.  This may explain his absence on the 1911 census, as overseas military records are still to be added to the site.

There are 2 Serjeant Thomas Kemp's in the RFA with medal cards listed on the National Archives, regiment numbers 30361 and 33432.

 
Title: Re: Colin Kemp 1858
Post by: Lorretta on Wednesday 11 February 09 12:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the info Erica,  I will have a look into it  ;D

Lorretta xxx