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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kirkcudbrightshire => Topic started by: CA_Linda on Thursday 22 January 09 16:49 GMT (UK)
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I am new member to this forum and this is my first post.
I am trying to locate anyone who might know of the family in the photograph. They are John Dickson of Kirkpatrick Durham and his wife, Elizabeth (Scott) and their daughter, Elizabeth Scott Dickson.
My grandmother's mother was Ellen/Helen Dickson, listed in 1841 Census in Springholm as Helen Dickson. Sometime after the census was taken, she and her parents (Joseph Dickson & Margaret Derby) came to Macoupin County, Illinois where her father died the Summer of 1842. Her mother died in 1845. Her name was Ellen Dickson when she married 1844 in Illinois to James Miller Lair.
One of her grandsons, Carl C. Carter, was corresponding with cousins of Ellen (Helen) Dickson, about 1900-1905, John Dickson and family were living in Dumfries at this time.
A postcard (undated) with a photograph of the daughter, Elizabeth Scott Dickson gave her address as 109 King Street, Castle Douglas. It appears she (the daughter) was much older than in the photograph at that time.
I have searched the 1841-1901 census and IGI marriage & christening extractions and have presummed this is the family of this John Dickson & family in the photograph:
John Dickson, Shoemaker, born abt. 1816-1818 Kirkpatrick Durham. He probably died between 1881-1891. He married, 28 Dec 1838 Urr, Kirkcudbrightshire, Mary Kimin (spelling?) who was born abt. 1817-1823 Urr, Kirkcudbrightshire.
Their children:
1. Jean/Jane Dickson b. abt. 1840 Kirkpatrick Durham (no further info) except that she was last listed in the household, 1851.
2. John Dickson, also a shoemaker/bootmaker (of the photograph) b. abt. 1842 Kirkpatrick Durham. The 1871 census lists him in the household of Mary Reid in Dalbeattie.
He married 1 Aug 1873 Colvend, Kirkcudbrightshire, Elizabeth Scott b. about 1853 Kirkgunzeon.
They had two daughters: Mary Lousia Dickson b. 3 June 1874 Dalbeattie--apparently died before 1881 cenus and Elizabeth Scott Dickson (called Lizzie S. Dickson in census) b. abt. 1881 Urr. (she would be the daughter in the photograph.
3. Mary Dickson b. abt 1847-1848 Kirkpatrick Durham. 1881 census indicates she had two children: Mary L. Dickson b. abt. 1875 Urr and John James Dickson b. abt. 1880 Urr.
4. Jannet/Janet "Jessie" Dickson b. about 1849-1850 Kirkpatrick Durham. She was visiting in the 1881 census and had a child, Mary Jane Dickson b. about 1879 England.
When Carl C. Carter was corresponding with John Dickson of Dalbeattie (1900-1905) he said his sister lived in Castle Douglas--no name given.
It appears to me, my Joseph Dickson may have been a brother to the elder John Dickson. Joseph's wife, Margaret Derby was married 1st to William Welsh who died 1815. She had a son, William Welsh born about 18 months prior to his father's death. The reason Joseph Dickson and his wife, Margaret and daughter Helen/Ellen came to America was because her son, William Welsh was living in Macoupin County, Illinois when they arrived ca. 1841-1842.
Any information is greatly appreciated.
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California
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Hi Linda
Welcome to Rootschat :)
As a starter, here's a photo of King Strreet, Castle Douglas:
(http://www.ancestral-tales.co.uk/assets/images/autogen/a_K08.jpg)
THe names are familiar - I'm sure someone else here is looking for the same family. I'll do some checks and get back to you.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi again
Have you checked on the Scotland's People site www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk It's a pay to view site where you need to register and buy credits (in £6 units = 30 credits) You would be able to view and download relevant birth, marriage and death certs which would give information on the family who remained.
Gadget
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Thank you so much for your prompt replies. I have looked at Scotlands People site but have not yet registered to view the records. I thought I would try this forum first. And thank for the the photo of King Street.
I have heard about my Scottish Great-Great Grandmother since I was about ten years old but never knew much about her other than she married in Illinois until recent found information.
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California
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Hi again
John Dickson, shoemaker, (married to Mary Kimm) died at Springholm, Urr on July 11 1889 aged 73. His parents were Matthew Dickson (? stonewall* labourer) and Sarah, maiden surname Rae, both deceased . John Dickson, his son was the informant.
This is from the image of the death entry available on the Scotlands People site that I referred to. I've used some of my units to show you what you can find on there. Unless you go to one of the large Scottish Records Offices or the Mitchell Library in Glasgow, it is the only way to obtain full BMD information from 1855.
Regards
Gadget
* added - having looked at it again it is General labourer - my eyes are playing tricks at the moment ::)
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I have the MIs for Kirkcudbrightshire parishes and will check them out for you later this evening :)
Gadget
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Gadget:
Oh, Thank You so much! You have given me more to go on. This is my first experience "jumping the ocean" although I have been doing genealogical research over 30 years. The Dicksons are my only attempt at research outside of the United States.
I have full-bore membership to Ancestry.com until July 2009 -- if there is anything you want me to look up I am more than happy to do so. You have given me something to go on.
Thanks again!
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California
Hi again
John Dickson, shoemaker, (married to Mary Kimm) died at Springholm, Urr on July 11 1889 aged 73. His parents were Matthew Dickson (? stonewall labourer) and Sarah, maiden surname Rae, both deceased . John Dickson, his son was the informant.
This is from the image of the death entry available on the Scotlands People site that I referred to. I've used some of my units to show you what you can find on there. Unless you go to one of the large Scottish Records Offices or the Mitchell Library in Glasgow, it is the only way to obtain full BMD information from 1855.
Regards
Gadget
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Hi again Linda
Not sure if you've seen this:
Kirkpatrick Durham MIs
Joseph Dickson died 3 March 1827, aged 91
wife Hellen Kirkpatrick d. Knockwalloch 1 March 1819 aged 68
son Joseph died Macaupin Illinois N.America 19 Sept 1842 aged 59
wife Margaret Derby died same place 17 October 1845
Elizabeth Dickson died 1 July 1854 aged 80
husband Robert Gregan died 19 Jan 1861 aged 81
Minnie Dickson died Burnside of Glenroan 4 Jan 1875 aged 78
I'll PM you now you've got some posts so that I can send you the death cert :)
Gadget
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Trying to work out the relationship between the Elizabeth and Minnie on the MI and your Joseph. I've got the death of Minnie (Mina)in 1875 and it shows her as having Joseph Dickson and Helen Kirkpatrick as parents, so she was Joseph (Helen/Ellen)'s father's sister. I assume that Elizabeth was as well although no info. Father, Joseph, is given as a farmer on this death cert.
Mina's son (she died unmarried) was the informant . His name was Joseph Little.
Gadget
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So far, I can't see a relationship between the elder Joseph b.c. 1738 and the Matthew Dickson on John's death cert of 1889.
Sorry - eyes hurting so will call it a day and see what I can find tomorrow.
Gadget
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Dear Gadget,
Oh my goodness!
That is my Joseph Dickson who died in Macoupin County, Illinois! I am not familiar with MIs ... what are the MIs?
I know where Joseph Dickson and his wife, Margaret Derby are buried, however it is an abandoned cemetery in Macoupin County, Illinois. Two of Margaret's grandchildren are also buried in the cemetery (children of William Welsh & Jane Chisholm) Jane is also buried in the abandoned cemetery. After William Welsh's wife died, he remarrried and moved to Missouri.
I am so overwhelmed by your help in finding my Dickson family in Scotland. I don't know what more to say other than Thank you so very much!!!
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California
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Hi Linda
Sorry - I reverted to jargon :-[
MIs are Monumental Inscriptions - tombstone inscriptions . In Scotland before Jan 1855, when official registration of BMDs started, burials/deaths were not recorded systematically in parish records (some are available for some parishes but are not yet online). The best source for burials is therefore MIs. This is limited, of course, because not all families could afford a headstone.
It seemed a fairly common habit to record deaths of ancestors/relatives who died away from the parish. In your case, your Joseph and Margaret are inscribed on the tombstone in Kirkpatrick Durham Kirkyard.
I was at that Kirkyard about 18 months ago. It is set up in the moorlands accessed via many twisty rural lanes :)
Gadget
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Photo of Kirkpatrick Durham Kirk and kirkyard on this page:
http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~dfsgal/ndx-3.htm
I'll continue looking for your family , including the Darbys, tomorrow :)
Gadget
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Hi Linda
I'm not getting very much at all on Margaret Derby/Darby/ie . I've found a couple of baptisms in Lanarkshire but nothing that 'rings true'. Also, I've had a look on the 1841 census using Derby/Darby and also the versions ending -ie. There is an interesting family (as Derby) in Buittle that might be worth looking at.
I know you have access to all the censuses so have not typed them out.
Regards
Gadget
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Good Morning, Gadget
The 1841 census indicated Margaret (Derby) Welsh-Dickson was born in Kirkcudbrightshire but I have found very few Derbys in Scotland. I will take a look at the interesting family you mention.
Thanks again for all you are doing.
Linda
Hi Linda
I'm not getting very much at all on Margaret Derby/Darby/ie . I've found a couple of baptisms in Lanarkshire but nothing that 'rings true'. Also, I've had a look on the 1841 census using Derby/Darby and also the versions ending -ie. There is an interesting family (as Derby) in Buittle that might be worth looking at.
I know you have access to all the censuses so have not typed them out.
Regards
Gadget
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I found this thread whilst searching for information on Kirkpatrick Durham. I'm delighted to find it, I was brought up for the formative years in the village. There was a family of Dicksons at Springholm, many of whom I wnet to school with, both in KPD and Springholm (when KPD shut). I'm not sure of the father's name, but I can picture the hosue they lived in at the end of the village of Springholm, just off the main road. They had quite a large family, the children were
I have managed to get hold of a copy of The Book of Kirkpatrick Durham, so will have a look through and see if I can turn anything up for you.
I'd love to think they are relatives/descendants of yours.
Edited to remove names I shouldn't have put in there, possible ID - sorry.
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What a wonderful surprise to see the notification in my e-mail this morning of your posting.
I would love to hear more of the Dicksons who you knew in Springholm. When I found my Joseph and Margaret Dickson and their daughter, Helen in the 1841 census, there was at least one or two other Dickson families listed in Springholm. Helen is my 2nd Great-Grandmother and when they came to America, her name changed to Ellen.
I am so thrilled that you posted your message and cannot wait to hear what more you can tell me. I would love to be able to find cousins still living in Scotland.
Last January, Gadget posted the following:
Kirkpatrick Durham MIs
Joseph Dickson died 3 March 1827, aged 91
wife Hellen Kirkpatrick d. Knockwalloch 1 March 1819 aged 68
son Joseph died Macaupin Illinois N.America 19 Sept 1842 aged 59
wife Margaret Derby died same place 17 October 1845
Elizabeth Dickson died 1 July 1854 aged 80
husband Robert Gregan died 19 Jan 1861 aged 81
Minnie Dickson died Burnside of Glenroan 4 Jan 1875 aged 78
Joseph and Margaret (Derby) Dickson are buried in Macoupin County, Illinois in an abandoned cemetery. I am planning to go to Illinois in September and several people whom I have never met are going to take me to the cemetery which requires at least a mile or so walk through a farm field.
How exciting! And thank you so much...this is so overwhelming because I have searched or wondered about my Grandma's grandmother since I was a child.
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California U.S.A.
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I'll see what I can find out for you; will ask my mother, who still lives in Sclotland, if she can remember the father's name, I have a notion it is/was William.
I am hoping to get back up there later this year/early next year, and will be visiting the cemetery, would be happy to take photos for you if you like. I have the names of the children, also a school photo, but wasn't sure about posting the names up here as they are still living.
Will keep in touch :)
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Hi MrsL
If you are going to the cemetery, let me know and I can tell you the rough position of the grave.
I was there a couple of years back and it is a very tightly packed grave yard that would take ages to search without some plan :)
Linda - it's best to remove your e-mail address when MrsL has recorded it.
Regards to you both
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget, that's kind. I lived there from 1968 - 1978 ish, and got to know both the old and new cemeteries quite well! Will get in touch when I do go, though, help is aprreciated.
Have noted your e-mail address, Linda, and will be in touch soon. :)
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Because my Joseph Dickson and family came to America after the 1841 census and before September 1842 (when Joseph died in Macoupin County, Illinois), I only checked to make sure that the Joseph, Margaret and Helen Dickson I found in 1841 census was not still listed in 1851. I have not gone beyond the earlier census.
The 1841 census lists Robert Dickson age 40, wife Agness 40 and sons William 12 and John Dickson 9 at Lockside. William Dickson 65 and dau. Jessi(e) 20 at Crofthead. In Springholm were, Agnes Dickson age 19 with dau. Mary Ann Kerr age 5 mos. Anne Dickson 6 in household of Andrew Armstrong and immedicately following was my Joseph Dickson 50, Margaret 40 and Helen 16. In Haugh village on was William Dickson 60, Jane age 27 and David Clark 5. Plus other Dickson/Dixons in other locations but, all in Urr Parish.
I made a copy of Enumerator's Schedule No. 3 (No. of Parish 884, Name of Parish Urr, County Kirkcudbright) which lists all the others in that particular Schedule. This is the schedule where Springholm appears, plus a few other locations. Because my copy is printed from the microfilm, some of the name are hard to read.
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California
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Thanks Gadget for all you do. I did remove my e-mail address. I didn't know you can go back and edit.
This is one of the best forums I have ever found.
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California, U.S.A.
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My Book of KPD* turns this up:
"to those interesting extracts we may add from an old Valuation Roll teh name of the principal proprietors of land in 1799:-
William Dickson of Margley "
Not sure if he was of your family, but thought I'd bring it to your attention in case it helps somehow.
*The Book of Kirkpatrick Durham, by W.A. Stark, F.S.A. (Scot)
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"4. Jannet/Janet "Jessie" Dickson b. about 1849-1850 Kirkpatrick Durham. She was visiting in the 1881 census and had a child, Mary Jane Dickson b. about 1879 England."
Have just turned up the fact my Great Great Grandmother was a Janet Dickson; needs much more research - I'm just starting out really, but will let you know of any developments! You never know.
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Hi all!
I'm aware that this is an old thread but I've been looking at creating a family tree for my dad. The dickson family mentioned living in springholm is my dads family ( he is the eldest of 7 siblings) and his father was William Dickson who sadly passed away when I was in my early teens.
It would be lovely to find out if we have relations out in the wider world!
Maggie Dickson
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Maggie Dickson,
I would love to discuss the Dickson family of Springholm with you. I just sent a private message, but thought it was going to post under your posting--apparently not.
Linda R.F. Arnold
Menifee, California USA
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A lot of water under the bridge since the original post...…
I got divorced in 2014 and have returned to live in Kirkpatrick Durham!
I've a friend who is very knowledgeable about local history/families - I'll be seeing her on Thursday and will try to find out if she knows anything to add to your research on the Dickson family. :)