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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: HollyMM on Thursday 22 January 09 00:15 GMT (UK)
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I was looking through one of the WW1 soldiers records that I have (I've had about 5 cousins and 3 great-great uncles serve in the war--and that's just on my mum's side. :o ), and spotted in the papers for Arthur Lyttelton JOHNSON that he'd been gassed severely on 22nd July 1917. Where would he most likely have been serving in France at this time (as it says he marched into France), when he was gassed? It does say on the Casualty Form that he was admitted to the 7th General Hospital in St Ornes (which I assume is in France, because the name sounds very French. I could be wrong, however.)
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Hi Holly
If you have his papers it should say which regiment and battalion he was serving in at the time. From that you can be given links to what his unit did in France/Belgium.
Ken
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I checked for his regiment, and apparently he was with the: Canterbury Infantry Regiment, C Company, 16th Reinforcements 1st NZEF. I've tried looking on the internet, but I haven't come up with anything for this regiment. Where are the best places to look to find out where that particular battalion/regiment served in France/Belgium?
What I have: Canterbury Infantry Regiment, C Company, 16th Reinforcements 1NZEF, and then 3rd Canterbury Tunneling Detachment.
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If you don't get any luck from other sources I'll check my books in the morning. It's a bit late (for me) to do any research tonight.
Alan NZ
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If you don't get any luck from other sources I'll check my books in the morning. It's a bit late (for me) to do any research tonight.
Alan NZ
Thanks, that would be good if you could do that for me sometime. :) The internet isn't being very helpful to me at all. :(
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The Canterbury Inf Regt was formed in 1914 and was formed from volunteers of the T.F. regiments in Canterbury District:
1st (Canterbury) Regiment,
2nd (South Canterbury) Regiment,
12th (Nelson) Regiment,
13th (North Canterbury and Westland) Regiment
It was disbanded in 1919
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There is a book you may like to find...
Ferguson, David. The History of the Canterbury Regiment, N.Z.E.F., 1914-1918. Auckland : Whitcome and Tombs, 1921
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The New Zealand Division's first major trial on the Western Front was during the Battle of the Somme. It took part in the Fourth Army's attack on 15 September. By the time they were relieved on 4 October, the New Zealanders had advanced three kilometres and captured eight kilometres of enemy front line. More than 7000 had become casualties, of whom 1,560 were killed.
In June 1917 the New Zealand Division further distinguished itself in the storming of Messines ridge. During the Third Battle of Ypres in the following October, however, it was bloodily repulsed in its second attack at Passchendaele; with 850 dead, this remains the worst disaster in New Zealand's history in terms of lives lost in a single day.
Here is some more int...
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-nz/nz-infantry.htm
As he was injured in mid July, it appears that he may have been caught in a random gas attack, as the wind was with the enemy...
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The New Zealand Division's first major trial on the Western Front was during the Battle of the Somme. It took part in the Fourth Army's attack on 15 September. By the time they were relieved on 4 October, the New Zealanders had advanced three kilometres and captured eight kilometres of enemy front line. More than 7000 had become casualties, of whom 1,560 were killed.
In June 1917 the New Zealand Division further distinguished itself in the storming of Messines ridge. During the Third Battle of Ypres in the following October, however, it was bloodily repulsed in its second attack at Passchendaele; with 850 dead, this remains the worst disaster in New Zealand's history in terms of lives lost in a single day.
Thank you for that useful information, scrimnet. :)
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No 7 General Hospital was actually in St Omer... ;)
It was there fro 08 June 1915 to May 1918.
It was also known as Melassises Hospital
http://www.anzacday.org.au/digging/hospitals.html
And some interesting figures...
In France between November 15, 1916 and August 31, 1917, No. 7 General Hospital treated 35,783 people, with a total of only 386 deaths.
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No 7 General Hospital was actually in St Omer... ;)
I guess that's what I get when I try and decipher indecipherable handwriting! ;)
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I can find no reference so far to the Canterbury Infantry Regiment, however of the period of 7th of July 1917 the battle for Messines Ridge commenced,this attack was successful however it was retaken by the Germans in April of the following year. The South African Brigade took it back for the final time in October of 1918.
The battle for Ypres/Passchendaele took place from the end of July to early November so it is likely that it was at Messines ridge were the gassing took place.
I have not manged to find any reference so far to the 7th General Hospital you quoted but there were a number of British CCS (Casualty Clearing Stations) at St Omer and I have found a number of references to them dealing with gas victims.
Have a look here this will give you some info on the Messine Ridge Battle.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/new-zealanders-in-belgium/battle-for-messines
I suspect that the Rifle brigade would have been two small a unit to get a specifice mention in most books and would have been included as part of the Canterbury Brigade. My only reference which covers this area and timeline is "The ANZAC experience" by Christopher Pugsley and ex NZ Army officer who is currently a senior lecturer in military history at Sandhurst a very readable and un biased account of NZ service during WW1. It should be readily available from your local library.
My main areas of interest is Gallipoli.
Hope this helps
Alan NZ
Ps I see from posts whilst I have been researching this that some areas have already been covered.
Alan
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Thank you all for your helpful info. :) I looked deeper into Messines Ridge through Google, and found out it was here that mustard gas was used for the first time, by the Germans. It was very awful stuff, mustard gas. :-X Now this is sparking my interest in Passenchendaele even more (the fact that lots of ancestors were there, I mean), so it's a good thing I'm taking a WW1 history paper this year!
Here's the article I found:
Passchendaele: Encyclopedia II - Passchendaele - July 1917
Passchendaele - July 1917
As a second stage of the action, General Sir Hubert Gough was put in charge of the attacks to secure the Gheluvelt Plateau which overlooked Ypres. Huge numbers of guns were moved into the area and started a four-day bombardment, but the Germans recognised the sign of an impending offensive, and moved more troops in to reinforce the defences.
In July the Germans used mustard gas for the first time. It attacked sensitive parts of the body, caused blistering, damage to the lungs and inflammation of the eyes, causing blindness (sometimes temporary) and great pain.
One problem in carrying the offensive forward was the Yser canal, but this was taken on July 27 when the Allies found the German trenches empty. Four days later, the offensive proper opened with a major action at Pilkem ridge, with allied gains of up to 2000 yards. The Allies suffered about thirty-two thousand casualties--killed, wounded or missing--in this one action.
Ground conditions during the whole Ypres-Passendale action were atrocious. Continuous shelling destroyed drainage canals in the area, and unseasonable heavy rain turned the whole area into a sea of mud and water-filled shell-craters. The troops walked up to the front over paths made of duckboards laid across the mud, often carrying up to one hundred pounds (45 kg) of equipment. It was possible for them to slip off the path into the craters and drown before they could be rescued. The trees were reduced to blunted trunks, the branches and leaves torn away, and the bodies of men buried after previous actions were often uncovered by the rain or later shelling.
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Passchendaele_-_July_1917/id/1834255
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As or NZ tunnelers...
You may like to get int touch with this chap...
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=108112&pid=1034343&st=0&#entry1034343
He may have found some int on the 3rd Canterbury Det...