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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Salamander on Wednesday 21 January 09 06:14 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I was hoping for some suggestions on where to track down this ancestor.
Edward Cotter (born abt 1884 in Youghal, Cork) served in the Royal Munster Fusiliers and apparently was in the Boer War, then went to India with his Battalion or Regiment after the war. He was in India for approx 11 years before emigrating to Australia.
Going by his age (he would have been about 17 years old in 1901), I think he would have been in the 2nd Battalion. From research I have found that the 2nd Battalion of the RMF volunteered & served in the Boer War from February 1900 to March 1902. I'm assuming that he moved to India not long after this date.
Can anyone advise me if it is possible to find a list of soldiers who enlisted in the RMF around this time? Also, any links to researchers or information on people/military arriving in India around 1902?
Any suggestions/comments would be gratefully accepted.
Kind Regards
Sal :)
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Hi Salamander,
Do you have access to Ancestry - in particular the WW1 Pension Records? You may already have seen this but there is a very interesting entry for an Edward Cotter no 6890 of the RMF (1st Bn)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05ci/
This soldier went to India in 1902 and returned for discharge in 1914. He was born "Blackrock" CORK, (at least that is what it looks like). Not sure how far that is from Youghal. Served 12 years 45 days
No sign of Boer War service for him. He was 32 years 1 month old in feb 1914. He said he was (or appeared to be) 20 years old when he attested 20th december 1901. Brown har, brown eyes - Roman Catholic. It does have his previous occupation but I am having trouble reading it. It could say "Barman".
There were probably a few Edward Cotters so this chap is not necessarily yours - but if you happen to know the names of his siblings ..and they were John, Lizzie and Aniie that would help. ;D ;D
The India dates seem to match and the length of service to the info you already have. However, if you have evidence he definitely WAS in Boer War then this can't be him.
NB The following pages refere to other Edward Cotters of Corke..They usually say when it is a new person but these don't so don't get confused by the chap in the Royal Irish Rifles who is being discharged for lying about his age (he's only about 16)
Milly
;D
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Hi
This site ..............
http://www.casus-belli.co.uk
has details of many of those who served in the South Africa (Boer) War. You will need to register (free) in order to be able to do a basic search
There are quite a few Cotters shown but none that served with the RMF.
Good luck
HB
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Hello HugoBeauchamp and Milly,
Thank you so much for your replies! I have been trying to track down this fellow down from so many angles that I'm now completely turned around! ???
The information that he was in the Boer War and the RMF is all family lore, and I am trying to establish this as fact or fiction.
Hugo, thanks for the link to that Casus Beli website, I have registered and you are correct, no obvious links to my Edward Richard Cotter. I understand (lore again) that he served with a cousin and a brother, although unfortunately I don't know their names apart from one being named Parnell (whether that is a forename or middle name is also unknown). There are quite a few Cotters on the list, but I’m still at an impasse. Thanks anyway!
Milly, my please forgive my confusion. Where are you getting the extra information about Edward Cotter from Blackrock? I don’t think he is my man, but are you getting the information about his appearance, siblings and service in India from a particular source? My Edward apparently had at least 2 brothers and sisters, and from what I understood, sold his commission in India and emigrated straight to Australia. Were military men required to return to England to be formally discharged?
Kind Regards,
Sal :)
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Hi Salamander,
All that information was contained in the service records for that particular Edward Cotter. As I say, it may well not be the same man you are looking for but there similarities and I thought it worth considering as a possibility. I don't know if he would have had to come back to England to be discharged - perhaps someone else can help with that information. He may have come to England first and then gone to Australia and family lore could still say he went straight to Australia. The records say he was discharged in 1914 at Gosport, (Hampshire, England).
This chap appears to have one brother and two sisters at the time he signed up - but that does not mean he did not have more brothers later on... perhaps a younger brother who he did not put down as next of kin. If you could find out what his brothers and sisters were called that would help to confirm or eliminate this chap.
I was told that my great grandfather was in the Boer War but it turned out not to be true (In fact he was in the army in India from 1887-1902 and people had just presumed). Family tales can be incredibly unhelpful sometimes ;D ;D
Milly
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Hi Milly,
I'm having such a hard time establishing anything about my man prior to 1916 that I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if he hadn't gone to the Boer War, nor even been in India!
I had a look on a map and Blackrock isn't too far from Youghal, which is were I thought my Edward was born. Its not inconceivable (that this is the same man) I suppose, but then I thought he had emigrated to Australia in 1913 but haven't been able to establish that as fact either! The only thing I DO know for sure is that he married in 1916 in Brisbane, Australia. Anything prior to this date is up in the ether!
Yep, family tales are definitely unhelpful and have me going around in circles. If only it was easier to find birth details in Ireland. If I could establish his family details I think it might be easier..... >:(
Thanks again!
Sal :)
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Well - good luck with it.... I expect something will turn up when you are least expecting it.
I just had another look at the service records on Ancestry to see if there were any more clues (but there were not) and realised that there are some more pages before where his records are supposed to start which appear to be his medical records and show more detail of where he was in India... Not much use if he is not yours but if you ever do claim him then take a look..
The records look like they may start on this page..
http://content.ancestry.co.uk/Browse/view.aspx?dbid=1114&path=C.Co.Cot.1778
Milly
;D
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Sal,
If your man served in the Boer War then he would have been awarded either the Queen's South Africa Medal or the King's South Africa Medal or both. These medal rolls can be viewed at the National Archives at Kew.
Also at Kew providing they have survived, would be his army service papers in WO97. These would show all his postings to countries he served in.
The Armed Forces forum on this site may be worth a look at to see if a look-up for the medal rolls is possible.
Good luck
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Thanks Milly! I'll take a look at this mans' records, you never know. Actually, last night I had a monumental breakthrough on my Edwards' wife's family, so here's hoping the same will happen with him! ;D
Leofric, do you know if those medals were awarded for a particular thing like bravery etc, or did all those who served get one? Thanks for the tip, I'll take a look at that section of the forum.
Kind Regards
Sal :)
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Hello Sal,
The medals were campaign medals, for taking part in the overall conflict. If they served there, they were entiltled to them.
regards
Leofric
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Hi Leofric,
If thats the case then looking for medals awarded to him should definitely tell me whether he was there or not. My thanks, this is an excellent lead!
Kind Regards
Sal :)
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The only thing I DO know for sure is that he married in 1916 in Brisbane, Australia. Anything prior to this date is up in the ether!
Sal :)
Edward Cotter marriage to Norah Mahony 1916 Brisbane - from Qld reg.
Found a death for Edward Cotter 1948 Brisbane, father Edward, mother Mary Walsh - from Qld reg.
Found no death record for Norah.
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re. the edward cotter from blackrock cork .
edward cotter reg no. 4980 rank corporal royal munster fusiliers 8th batt killied in action france september 3rd 1916 born blackrock co cork .
cant be your man , at least this excludes him .
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should listry,s details be correct .
from family search .
elizabeth 4 nov 1872 cork
james 13 dec 1875 cork
mary 24 june 1878 mall house cork
edward 24 sep 1879 cork
parents edward cotter and mary walsh
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Listry, thanks for the information you have posted, I have now located their marriage and death records. My sticky point now is Edward Cotter's life prior to coming to Australia, and unfortunately I've not discovered much on his family apart from parents names and that they came from Cork, Ireland.
Obbie, thank you so much for passing on this information. The information in your last post is new to me. I have been concentrating on a different branch of the family and haven't been back to FamilySearch in some time, but I'll go take a look now. Thanks again, you might have just removed a brick from my wall...! :)
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Listry, thanks for the information you have posted, I have now located their marriage and death records. My sticky point now is Edward Cotter's life prior to coming to Australia, and unfortunately I've not discovered much on his family apart from parents names and that they came from Cork, Ireland.
Thanks Salamander,
Do you need names of children born to the Cotter marriage, or, do you already have them.
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Hi Listry,
Many thanks, I have the details of the children born to Edward and Norah Cotter. (I am descended from one of the children). If you have any tips on how to track Edward back to Ireland I'd be grateful though! ;)
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certs can be got from roscommon GRO , you can order and pay by credit card by fax .
when searching for edwards birth ask GRO to search for other childrens births using there names dates and parents names as data .
edward cotter marriages youghal 1872 volume 9 page 506
mary walsh marriages (same details)
this will give there addresses there occupations and fathers names .
edward cotter birth youghal (district) oct-dec 1879 volume 4 page 853
will give mam and dads full name there address and dads occupation .
from certs you should be able to work out parish church ,
write to parish church and ask for copys of entrys for parents marriage and births of children (baptismal) these should give added details witnesses and god parents .
a small donation helps , however some churchs will not help or have high fees , searching through church of latter day saints micro films for parish will be your option .
hope this helps
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Oh my, it definitely helps Obbie, thank you so much! This is the closest that I have come to Edward Senior and Mary in years, very exciting! Off to Google Roscommon GRO.
Thank you!
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See this topic in IRELAND RESOURCES for information-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html
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Aghadowey, thank you for the excellent link, very much appreciated!