RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham Lookup Requests => Durham => England => Durham Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: ianofsussex on Tuesday 20 January 09 16:06 GMT (UK)
-
Hello all
My first post and it happens to be a help request, so aplogies for that and if this is in the wrong section.
I've recently begun researching my family, 'Maw' and have recently obtained a copy of the birth certificate of my great great granfather:
Thomas Maw born 24 Dec 1842 in Stockton-on-Tees, Durham.
His father is shown as George Maw, who appears to have been born abt. 1815 in Whitburn according to several census.
Thomas' mother is shown as Helen Maw (formerly Waring).
I can find no trace of George or Helen in 1841 census, marriage index 1837-1983 or marriage index 1538-1940. I have tried various combinations and variations of the names with no success.
1951 census, George is shown as living as a lodger in Barrow, Lincolnshire with Thomas, aged 8 years. His daughter Jane aged 4 is shown as staying with another family in Lincs.
After this, George is shown as being married to a Mary from Brocklesby? Lincolnshire living in Brighton along with Thomas now aged 18 years and daughter Jane aged 14 years
I am desperate to find earlier (pre 1851) traces of George and the mysterious Helen. Any suggestions as to where I look now?
Unfortunately, living in Sussex doesn't make it easy to go looking in libraries etc up north.
Any help greatly appreciated.
-
Well Ian although not linked, I spoke with a member of the Maw family in Sunderland yesterday.
Because of work commitments they will not be able to reply till the weekend.
So hoping you get some sort of input.
Brian
-
Thanks Brian, much apppreciated. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
-
Hi Ian
Welcome to rootschat. I have moved this post to the Durham board as the local experts are more likely to pick it up there. What was George's occupation on the birth certificate? If you can quote the 1851 census then it may help them get going more quickly!
Andrea
-
Hi Ian
Welcome to rootschat. I have moved this post to the Durham board as the local experts are more likely to pick it up there. What was George's occupation on the birth certificate? If you can quote the 1851 census then it may help them get going more quickly!
Andrea
Thanks Andrea. This is the information I have.
On Thomas' birth certificate, George's occupation looks like 'Fireman upon engine' or similar. The address given for Thomas' mother, Helen Maw (formerly Waring) is given as Catholic Street, Stockton.
From Census
In 1851 George is listed as being aged 40, living in lodgings in Barrow, Lincs His occupation is 'engine cleaner'. Place of birth looks like Durham Coundon.
His son Thomas aged 8 is shown as living with him. His birthplace is Stockton-on-Tees.
A separate 1851 census sheet shows George's daughter Jane aged 4 as staying with another family, the Allsops in Boston Lincs. Janes' birthplace is shown as Derbyshire
In 1861 George's age has only increased to 47 and is now living in Brighton with a wife Mary also aged 47. His birthplace is shown as Whitburn Durham and Mary's is Brocklesby? Lincs. George's occupation is engine driver.
Thomas is aged 18 no occupation. Birthplace still shown as Stockton-on-Tees.
Jane is aged 14 and shown as scholar. Birthplace still shown as Derbyshire.
Hope this is of help and thanks again in advance.
Ian
-
hi lad and all i went to school with a Maw lad in sunderland i left school in 1980 i think they lived in ford estate
its a small world neil
-
How about this one for 1841 :
Offerton St., Stockton (previous page is Catholic St.). HO107/317/26
George Marr, Engineman, Y, 35/25 (transcribed on Ancestry as 25, could be 35 though).
Ellen Marr, 24, N.
Elizabeth Marr, 9 months, N.
Could be read as Maw, sounds similar and could have been interchangeable at the the time, when a lot of people were not very literate.
I looked at the 1851 census for George Maw. and its transcribed as that on Ancestry, but looks more like Marr to me. There is another persons name a few lines up with a flourish at the end of the R that makes it look like a W.
Or it could just be my imagination.
Alan.
-
This would tie in with 1841 census
Marriages Sep 1840
COOPER Margaret Preston 21 378
Marr George Preston 21 378
TOWERS Richard Preston 21 378
WAREING Ellen Preston 21 378
Possibly Ellen was from this area
http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/preston.html
Cas
-
Also a possible death which would tie in with right area on the 1851 in Lincs
Deaths Mar 1848 Marr Ellen Glanford Bg 14 320
This looks like daughter Jane
Births Jun 1847 Maw Jane Derby 19 531
Cas
-
Very many thanks for all your input, much appreciated and what a great response. It certainly ties in and gives me more information to work on.
Small world indeed. Myself being a 'Southerner', I've only recently found that some of my roots lay in the north east. My eldest daughter moved from Brighton to attend uni in Sunderland and then decided to stay and live there.
We've alway thought that my father's side (the Maws) originated in the east end of London and never thought that they moved there from the north east. Funnily enough, my mother's side are from the north east (Durham). I guess it technically makes me full northerner :D
Thank you all again for your work on this.
-
Hi Ian, looks like you have a few leads to go on.
This ref looks like the second marriage for George. Maybe trying to trace Mary Lambert through earlier census to see if info matches on later census, may help confirm, also if both marriage certs match for info on George you can verify the 1841 census as yours. Also have a lead back to an earlier line on fathers.
Which if so, seems likely the death in 1848 of Ellen is yours also
Marriages Sep 1858 (only two on page)
Lambert Mary Lincoln 7a 689
Maw George Lincoln 7a 689
Good luck & happy hunting, and also a warm welcome to Rootschat :)
Cas
-
Hi Ian, looks like you have a few leads to go on.
This ref looks like the second marriage for George. Maybe trying to trace Mary Lambert through earlier census to see if info matches on later census, may help confirm, also if both marriage certs match for info on George you can verify the 1841 census as yours. Also have a lead back to an earlier line on fathers.
Which if so, seems likely the death in 1848 of Ellen is yours also
Marriages Sep 1858 (only two on page)
Lambert Mary Lincoln 7a 689
Maw George Lincoln 7a 689
Good luck & happy hunting, and also a warm welcome to Rootschat :)
Cas
Thankyou Cas, more to go on :)
-
Hi Ian ,
My surname is Maw and i live quite near to Whitburn , so i have read your post and replies with great intrest (well done rootschatters)
I believe you are wanting to learn more about George and his parents ? i cannot find (on-line )a baptism record for George in the Whitburn area ,can i ask why you are so sure of his birthplace ? the reason i ask is that i have found a George Moor (as the name Maw is often misspelt ) who was baptized 16.03.1817 at Grindon by Stockton -on Tees. Father Samuel ,Mother Nancy.I just thought the Stockton connection and the year may be relevant.
May be worth sending for a copy of baptism as it should give you a birthdate.
Regards Durhamlass
-
Hi durhamlass, thanks for taking the time to have a look over this. I'm as sure as I can be so far, going by what has been uncovered. As yet, there's been no Moors mentioned.
It's believed that the name was mis-spelled in the 1841 census as Marr (not confirmed)
1851 census shows his birthplace as Coundon? Durham
1861 shows Whitburn
1871 shows Whitburn (surname mis spelled as Marr on transcription but definitely shows Maw on copy of original)
Thanks again
Ian
-
Could it possibly read Cleadon in 1851
Whitburn
This parish is bounded on the north by Harton, on the west by Boldon, on the south by Monkwearmouth, and on the east by the German Ocean. It comprises the townships of Cleadon and Whitburn.
http://www.joinermarriageindex.com/pjoiner/genuki/DUR/Whitburn/index.html
Cas
-
Cas - I'm pretty much 99% sure it's Coundon. Is it permissible to attach a clip from that part of the certificate showing the town name and the hand writing?
-
Yes as long as it is not the whole image re: copyright. Maybe others could have imput?
Cas
-
Thanks Cas. Here's just the birthplace section:
(http://www.themawfamily.co.uk/pictures/coundon.jpg)
-
Hi,
Going back to the death of Ellen. There is also this one registered in Derby in the same Quarter as daughter Jane was born. Ellen Maw, June Qtr. 1847 Derby Volume 19 page 465. I wonder if she died as a result of having Jane?
Regards,
Mo
-
Hi Ian, it does look like Coundon
http://www.ukvillages.co.uk/village/Coundon-Durham
That death looks another possible, and would tie in with the birth of Jane.
Cas
-
Thanks for the extra info folks. I think the 1847 death of Ellen in Derby makes more sense than the 1848 one recorded in Lincs and fits in better
So far it looks like it all sort of ties in. There are age discrepancies but I hadn't realised the 1841 census, age rounding down policy. George is shown as being possibly 25 in 1841 but jumped to 40 in 1851. Taking into account this policy, George could have been 29 in 1841 which would make it about right.
Just need to keep plugging away and confirm all the links so far. Have ordered Jane's birth certificate to see what that has to offer.
Thanks again
-
Good luck, let us know how you get on....you are bit further hopefully,
Cas :)
-
Thank you Cas.
In the case of there beingtwo names for the same person as in this case Helen Waring and Ellen Wareing, which one do you put down as the preferred or primary name? Is there any convention or is it just personal choice?
Ian
-
Difficult but Helen/Ellen are derivatives of each other. Possibly try include both, if sending for cert?
http://www.whatsinaname.net/php/search.php?action=search2&search_name=helen
Cas
-
On second thoughts, if sending for certs would quote as read, because prob written on cert etc
Marriages Sep 1840
COOPER Margaret Preston 21 378
Marr George Preston 21 378
TOWERS Richard Preston 21 378
WAREING Ellen Preston 21 378
Cas
-
LancsBMD site has the marriage indexed as Marr to Waring.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.html
Cheers
Jay
-
LancsBMD site has the marriage indexed as Marr to Waring.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.html
Cheers
Jay
Thanks for that info. Sorry for delay in replying but been away for a few days.
Ian
-
Just had Jane's birth certificate through and her father's name does in fact look more like Maw than Marr. Also, Ellen/Helen's surname is Maw and her maiden name is spelled as Waring, the same as the certificate I have for Thomas.
It looks like this has all tied in nicely and indicates, I'm probably on the right track. Just need to find George's parents and continue form there.
Thank you everyone for your help and input, it's been greatly appreciated.
Ian
-
Helloo, This is a random stab in the dark.. I actually googled Helen Waring..
Right.. So my nan's real mother died when she was 1, her name.. Helen Hill, formely Waring....
Part of the Harding and Waring family ??
Any connection ?
-
Helloo, This is a random stab in the dark.. I actually googled Helen Waring..
Right.. So my nan's real mother died when she was 1, her name.. Helen Hill, formely Waring....
Part of the Harding and Waring family ??
Any connection ?
I don't thnk that there is any connection there I'm afraid. Helen/Ellen married into the Maw family and died under that name.
Ian