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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Suffolk => Topic started by: Keeweegal on Saturday 17 January 09 04:24 GMT (UK)
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Hi all from a hot humid Western Australia. ;)
I am currently working on the GREEN side of my Tree and with a few exceptions, it hasn't been easy. I have Abishai Greens, Ewin Greens and many more.
My problem is that some of them of used their middle names looking on some census and sometimes their christian names. By some MIRACLE there wouldn't be anyone in Suffolk researching the same names/s Please? that may be able to put me straight.
Many thanks in advance.
Kimberly
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Is this your family
1841
Church St Sudbury Suffolk
James A Green 54 Bricklayer
Elizabeth 54
James L 25 Bricklayer
Abishai 24 bricklayer
Elizabeth 22
Ann 10
Ellen 7
Linton 15 apprentice
all b in county
HO107 1044 book 2 Page 10
Who are you having problems with??
Can we help at all??
Suz
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Hi ya Suz :)
They are the culprits :-X
Prime example, James A Green, is really Abishai James Green. He had a son called Ewin Lenton Green b 1812 Sudbury, He in turn married Elizabeth Thompson. They had a son called Ewin Lenton Green born 1840 born St Giles, London, however on some of the census from London, I picked up that he called himself Edwin and Edward. He is supposed to have married a Rebecca Brightman, but I think from memory I can only find a Phoebe. Why can't they leave their names as is....... :'( I guess I am a bit HIGH MAINTENANCE today.
This could be bigger than Ben Hur????
I am also trying to find the surname of Abishai's wife Elizabeth, I am sure that would tie up loose ends with various names.
Thanks ;)
Kimberly
Kimberly
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Ill have a look around
What complicates things further there are quite a few member submitted records on IGI
There are these extracted records which are supposedly births -but may be christenings -you may already have them
all at Great meeting Friar St and the Little Or Lower Sudbury Independant Sudbury
all to parents Abishai james Green and Elizabeth
Abishai 2 jun 1817
George Bishel 24 Nov 1827
Ewen 2 Dec 1812
Ellen 21 Aug 1833
James lenton 25 April 1815
I'll have a look around
Suz
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I think possibly Ewin lenton called himself by his correct name -however it seems the enumerators misheard -and sometimes it was mistranscried.
It seems Ewin Linton 1840 first married mary Ann
1871 (written as Edwin
4 Alma St Shreditch london
Edwin L Green head m 31 Master bricklayer City of London
Mary A wife 29 City of london
Edwin L son 2 Shoreditch
RG10 456 4 2
marriage FreeBMD
Transcried as Edwin!
Jun qtr 1868
Shoreditch
on same page
Edwin Linton Green
Mary Ann Tyler
1c 305
Suz
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Death reg FreeBMD
mary Ann Green
mar qtr 1880
age 38
Shoreditch
1c 110
then moving swiftly on!!!!
Marriage freeBMD
Sept qtr 1880
Shoreditch
on same page
Ewin Linton green
Rebecca brightman
1c 330
Suz
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Hi Ya
Thanks for the info so far....didn't have the last details, so I hope my brain puts it into perspective.
I am expecting some certificates from GRO this coming week, so I am hoping the details confirm what I have so far. Thanks again for your time.
Also, just a thought.....going back to Abishai James Green and his wife Elizabeth, you see on the census they have a child by the name of Ellen, age 7 in 1841, seeing Elizabeth is about age 54, wouldn't that make her too old to have that child?
What do you think? ???
Cheers again
Kimberly
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Elizabeth wouldnt necessarily be too old -she would be abt 46/7 when Ellen was born - my Grandmother was 47 when my father was born (and his dad was 60!)
1881 -don't know where little ewin Liton was
25 Buckland St
Shoreditch
Edwin green Head m 40 Bricklayer London city
Rebecca wife 39 London city
RG11 396 89 27
Death reg freebmd
Edwin Linton green head M 40 Bricklayer London City
Rebecca wife 39 London City
RG11 396 89 27
Death freeBMD
Edwin Linton Green
age 48
mar qtr 1889
W Ham Essex
4a 104
1891
Linton Villa
Leyton Essex
Edward L Green head U 22 Articled clerk to solicitor Finsbury London
Rebecca Green stepmother W 49 living on own means Cripplegate London
Annie E Mitchell cousin U 18 Helps in house Bow London
RG12 1343 36
1901
Church Road leyton Essex
Edwin L green Head U 32 Solicitoor Finsbury London
Rebecca green stepmother W 59 Living on own means Cripplegate London
Annie E Mitchell cousin U 28 Bow London
RG13 1617 103 49
Suz
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So it seems Ewin lenton Green 1840
married
mary Ann Tyler
they had a son Ewin Lenton 1869
mary Ann died 1880
a few months later Ewin Linton c1840 married rebecca brightman
Edwin Linton c 1840 died between end Dec 1888-mar 1889
widowed rebecca lived with stepson Ewin Lintn green b.1869
Possibly a marriage for Ewin Linton b.1869
FreeBMD
Jun qtr 1905
West ham
Ewin Linton Green
to either Phoebe jane Wagon
or Annie Amelia Porter
4a 633
(you thought one of the Ewins married a phoebe?)
possibly the birth of a son
Ewin Linton green
Jun qtr 1908
West ham
4a 385
please let us know if certificates confirm findigs
Suz
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By the way, when looking for a marriage of Abishai james to Elizabeth I came across this marriage
20 aug 1841
Sudbury Suffolk
Elizabeth green
daughter of Abishai james green
married
Charles Must
son of John Must
(I noticed in one census Abishai James and Elizabeth had a Must grandchild with them)
It may be worth requesting a parish register look up for the marriage of Abishai james green to Elizabeth (put a reference to this post too)
Suz
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Hi ya, What a treasure you are ;D
I couldn't figure out the marriage for Mary Ann Tyler / Rebecca, good on you.
How do I do the Parish Register Look Up, through Suffolk Records Office?
I will mull this lot over for a couple of days.
A million THANK YOU'S for your time and effort.
Very best regards
Kimberly
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You can ask on here if anyone is going or has access to parish records - start a ew topic -but dont forget to include a link to this post (saves duplicate look ups)
Suz
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Most counties are available through the County Look Ups Exchange
http://aztecrose.tripod.com/LookupExchange.htm
You will find Sudbury all Saints, St Peter's and St Gregory's are all available at www.suffolk-surnames-list.co.uk under Parish Look Ups (there are various other resources available for look ups too).
However, your people were of the Independent Church in Friars Street (long since demolished and the building that replaced it is home to Social Services in Sudbury).
The 'new' Congregational Church was built to replace the Independent church (as your ancestors were 'chapel' folk, this might account for the unusual Biblical names).
In 1841 I see that they are living in Church Street, this comes under St Gregory's parish.
Pat ...
just down the road from Sudbury ;)
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Hi Pat... ;)
Many thanks Pat for the link, suzard suggested I request a Parish Look up....started to but couldn't figure out how to add the link to this topic. Senior moment or Blonde one...not sure.
Interesting about the Biblical names....It was certainly passed on for quite a few generations.
Hoping the weather isn't too cold there. Do a swap....we had 46 here on Friday....fancy it that hot?
Cheers again
Kimberly
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Hi ya Suz & Pat... ;)
Certificates have arrived from GRO and It seems I have been incorrect.....
The Ewin Green I am concerned with is that born to Abishai and Elizabeth B 1812. The name I took was Ewin Lenton/Linton Green. I have the marriage certificate which states he married Elizabeth Thomspon, his father was Robert Lenton Green :o
Having another look on IGI there is a Ewen Green married 1839 and Ewen Lenton Green married in 1839. I believe I mistook the Ewen Lenton instead of just the Ewen. It shows on IGI as Ewen Lenton marrying Mary Golding. I have ordered a cert to confirm this, this will also state father names and if it states Abishai, I will be on the right track.
As this Robert Lenton Green has also the Lenton name, I would be very interested to know of his parents, but it seems impossible. :'(
The other certificates received confirmed my previous findings.... ;D
I have asked somebody to do a parish look up for me, so hopefully that will produce the maiden name for Abishai's wife Elizabeth.
Doesn't it go to show you really need that piece of paper to get your facts straight!!
Kimberly
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Pat
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Church WALK comes under St. Gregory and Church STREET comes under All Saints.
Sorry if I am wrong.
::) ::)
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Hope tis helps -and doesn't confuse!!!!!!
1841
(head of family entered as Edwin)
Monkwell? St
parish St Olave Silver St
London
Edwin Green 25 Builder No
Elizabeth 25 no
Ewin 1 yes
James hooper 25 C;oth Dresser No
HO107 723 3 21 4
this is a possibility for Ewin Linton Green -whose father you have discovered was Robert linton Green
now
this looks a strong possibility for Ewin Green (married Mary)son of Abishai
1841
North St
Sudbury St Peters
Ewin green 25 bricklayer
Mary 25
William 1 Charles Frisher? 45 Theatre C performer
Jane Frisher 45
Mary Smith 14 FS no
all except mary Smith b in county
HO107 1044 3 1 5
1851
Sepulchre St
Sudbury Sr gregory
Ewin green head M 38 Bricklayer
Mary wife 35
William james son 10 scholar
all b Sudbury
HO107 1789 page 1
1861
32 Sepulchre St
Sudbury St gegory
Ewin Green head M 48 bricklayer
Mary wife 44
William J son 20 Bricklayer
George F son 8
Ada E G daughter 2
all b Sudbury
RG9 1130 28 7
1871
45 Sepulchre St
Sudbury St gregory
Ewin green head M 58 Builder employing 12 men 1 boy
Mary wife 55
Ada E G daughter 11 scholar
all b Sudbury
RG10 1716 147 7
Suz
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Sue, thank you for pointing that out ;D ;D ;D
Yes, Church Street is the street where you will find All Saints Church,
must get to bed earlier, too many late nights trying to catch up with
everything.
Thanks again Sue (sorry about thet little ode Keeweegal ::)
Pat ...
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Hi Suz :)
Just a comment on some of the information you have found for keeweegal.
Sepulchre Street was renamed as Gainsborough Street.
I have my 1902 map in front off me (having checked for Church Street and Church Walk earlier ::)
So not sure when it was renamed but today you will find Gainsborough's House is in that street and nowadays is a museum to the Suffolk artist.
Pat ...
who having spent the morning with dad, should be catching up on her own housework!
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Many thanks to you all ;)
Thanks Suz for the census info, very helpful. No problems Pat......I know what you mean about the housework.....me too!!
Will sift through what I have so far and probably tear some hair out ::)
Cheers
Kimberly
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Hi all again :D
Have received a reply to my Parish Records Lookup (marriage) for Abishai James Green and Elizabeth, married 1808. It seems with info received that my dear Abishai married an Elizabeth Wiffin from Suffolk/Essex? Does this name feature largely in Suffolk or Essex, she was born about 1787, unusual name I haven't heard of before.
Does this name ring any bells with any of you Suffolk Folk?
Regards
Kimberly
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I don't think I have anyone registered as looking for Wiffen/Wiffin on the Suffolk Surnames List, but do have a look on the Rootschat Surnames listings.
There are certainly Wiffen families in the Sudbury area, came across several whilst working in local schools.
And of course, Sudbury is right on the Essex border, the river Stour which winds through the town is the boundary.
Pat ...
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Hi Pat :D
Thanks for your input....will have to get another cuppa and do some more searching....this could go on for some time!! ::)
Regards
Kimberly
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Hi Keeweegal
I am just starting my Green research (it being my OH's family rather than mine) and am already struggling to identify his grandfather amongst a whole flock of William Greens born about the same time. However, have now ordered Marriage Certificate and hope that after many fruitless hours, I might be able to get under way. Anyway, thought I'd say that if at any point my Greens appear to collide with your Greens, I'll be in touch!
Greensleeves
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Hi Greensleeves :D
No problem at all......any particular William Green....perhaps I can help? I have various certs and wills.
Just let me know. ;)
Kimberly
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Hi Kimberly
I am trying to identify the William George Green (my OH's grandfather) who married, Ipswich, in Sept 1910, Mary Ann Rebecca Long. The problem is that there seem to be several combinations of William Greens around that time, born between 1880 and 1890. I have more or less narrowed it down to one born 1885 in Hadleigh, and one born 1886 in Ipswich but have had to order the marriage certificate to establish precisely which one he is.
I'll certainly report back when I find out! Many thanks for your offer of help.
Greensleeves
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The Ewin Green I am concerned with is that born to Abishai and Elizabeth B 1812. The name I took was Ewin Lenton/Linton Green. I have the marriage certificate which states he married Elizabeth Thomspon, his father was Robert Lenton Green :o
Hi
Can you tell me the occupation of Elizabeth Thompsons father on the marriage cert. I believe this Elizabeth to be a sister of my 2xg.grandfather.
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Hi Sue
I cannot for the life of me remember why I said Elizabeth Thompson ::) I am off to get ready for work now, so when I've had my second coffee I might get it together and remember...as usual my filing is sub standard and will find the cert and reply later.
Kimberly
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Morning Sue or evening where you are :D
Found the cert (not filed :-[) The occupation of Elizabeth's father is noted as a 'Carman'...his name is William Thompson. Does this match ?
Sorry I took so long.
Kimberly
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Morning Sue or evening where you are :D
Found the cert (not filed :-[) The occupation of Elizabeth's father is noted as a 'Carman'...his name is William Thompson. Does this match ?
Sorry I took so long.
Kimberly
It certainly does ;D, thanks.
One last request, can you tell me who the witnesses were please?
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Witnesses were: Alfred Clubb and William (could be Street, Scott, strutt not as clear.
Incidentally, I have worked out that Ewen's father Robert Lenton Green is the cousin of my Abishai James Green... at long last!
Kimberly
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Thanks, probably Strutt, think he was a serial witness. ;D
I just checked William Thompsons death cert and his occupation on that was flour carter which is pretty much a carman.
It was very sad William and his wife Susannah died within five days of each other, just after the 1861 census and were both buried on the same day. :'(
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That is sad....can't imagine the misery of burying your parents together :'(
Now that I have found the connection between Robert Lenton and my Abishai, might you have an approximate birth date for Elizabeth? and where?
Kimberly
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Born in Sudbury c1816, found the record here.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=allCollections;r=1
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Thank you Sue :D
Why didn't I think of that ::)
Kimberly
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Hello there Keeweegal
I am researching good old James Abishai Green who is the GGG grandfather of my friend Andrew (for whom I am doing the research). This morning I was idly 'googling' his name and your very interesting posts came up! If you are still 'out there' would you be able to unearth the marriage details between James Abishai Green and Elizabeth Wiffin (I think you said she was)? Have you got any other information about them at all? For example their parents' names? Occupations? Witnesses? Where they were married?
On the Family Search website I found out that James Abishai Green's parents were Abishai Green (again!) and Sarah Goody (apparently - according to that website - not verified elsewhere as yet). And also that Abishai Green senior was born in 1765 in Sudbury to a Ewin Green and Elizabeth Linton (interesting, as those names come up in the succeeding generations don't they?).
But I can't find anything about Elizabeth Wiffin (eg birth, parents names) although the census says she is born in Sudbury.
Elizabeth and James Abishai had a daughter Hannah Green in 1811 in Sudbury who is too old to appear with them as a family on the 1841 census. By this time she is married to James King and living in Sudbury with about three children including a son called - wait for it - James Abishai King!
Any help is much appreciated.
Best wishes
Saira (Descendant of Murby) in Somerset England
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Hi Saira ;)
Yes I am still out here...thanks for the message, I have just recently moved to another country and am still un-packing, I would like to have the certificates to refer to, so when I track these down....will post the details. Thanks again.
The Wiffin name can also be spelt whiffen...and I have your James Abishai as Abishai James, so if you are searching use both.
If I have any luck finding the info today...will post.
Cheers :)
Kimberly
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Thank you for getting back so quickly Keeweegal and happy times in your new home - I hope it is somewhere warmer than Blighty is at the moment!
I look forward to hearing from you.
Saira
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Hi Saira :)
I have opened lots of boxes during the last week and still yet to locate the offending one, the removalists have either mis labelled the box or I have, but still can't find my BMD certs or parish records. What I have on my tree would have only been put there if verified by a particular source, so this is what I have:-
Elizabeth Whiffen born abt 1786 in Sudbury, to William and Martha
Married Abishai Green in 1808 at St Peter's, Sudbury, Suffolk.
My records indicate they had 11 children, however, I have yet to check 3 of them as they were born when Elizabeth was older. As yet...I have not done any research into William and Martha Whiffen.
If ever I find the missing boxes and they have any more info, will post.
Have a fabulous Festive Season :D
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Hi All
Not sure how relevant this is to your research but I have Green connections from Long Melford, Wethersfield & Sible Hedingham ( late 1700's early 1800's ) and they are all Chapel people many with biblical names. It also appears that they would travel long distances ( for those days ) to be baptised in an Independant Church. They would be adults because as I understand it they have to be old enough to choose their religion. Point being that the thinking of Chapel people was not the same as CofE folk. Might be worth checking Non-Conformist registers.
Hope its useful
Willis
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Hi
I am trying to establish if the family of Abishai Green is my family. I have a Henrietta Sarah Green who married Col. James Lister Laurence and moved to Australia in about 1863
Does the name Laurence or Levy as he changed his name from Levy to Laurence, come up anywhere?
Camellia