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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Down => Topic started by: murraymint on Friday 16 January 09 22:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi
A look up please
I have been trying to find the birth of my Gt Grandfather
John George Shaw Phillips born abt 1861 in Co Down. on the 1911 census
His father was William Phillips
John married Agnes Spencer in 1889 Liverpool,
Thank you
Ann
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Unfortunately civil registration of births began in 1864 so there will be no birth certificate fo John Phillips. To find a church record (if it exists) you need to know the family's religion and where they lived (parish if not actual townland not just 'Co.Down').
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Hi aghadowey
Thank you for your prompt reply
I know John was married at St Mark's Church of England
On the marriage, a witness was William Cleland Phillips
I believe John's younger brother.
I will search for William hopefully he might of left more information
Thanks again
Ann
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I think this is William's birth:
26 May 1868 William John Phillips
father Samuel Cleland (!) Phillips
mother
Eleanor Gray
Ballymacarret,Belfast,Co. Down.
Though I think the father's name is wrong
Will have a look for their marriage.
RosemaryJoan
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Hi RosemaryJoan
I have found William Cleland Phillips on the 1891 Census, gives his age has 28 so was born abt 1863
I think William was married to Florence Edith Liddy at St Catherine's Church 1899.
So I will need to obtain this marriage certificate.
On the Ancestry site the is a record of William C Phillips and Florence Liddy
But I am unable to view this record has I do not have World Deluxe membership
So maybe they are in America.
Thank you so much, for searching William birth.
I appreciate all your help
Ann
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Here are the only three William Phillips marriages that I can find in Co. Down:
21/2/1860 William Phillips to Henrietta Wilson in Saintfield Church of Ireland, Saintfield Parish
13/8/1852 William Phillips to Catherine Conovan or Connoway in Tullylish C of I, Tullylish Parish
25/11/1856 William Phillips to Alicia Clawson in Seaford Presbyterian Church, Loughinisland Parish
I can only find children born to William and Catherine after Civil registration
Catherine in 1867 and
David in 1870
and since they married in 1852, by the law of averages, they would have had children before civil registration
In Griffiths Valuation 1863 there is a William Phillips listed
Hopes this helps in some way. RosemaryJoan
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I went to Liverpool Library today and found William Cleland Phillips 35 and Florence Edith Liddy 22 marriage(1899)
William's father was a farm Labourer, he lived at his brothers Address
Looks like william was born abt 1864
John Phillips named his first daugther Alicia Alice, maybe after his mother.
Could you tell me more about Griffiths Valuation
Where could I search it?
Thank you again Rosemary Joan
Ann
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Sorry to cut in here, the web addy for griffiths valuation search is :
http://griffiths.askaboutireland.ie/gv4/gv_family_search_form.php
Good luck
OTTO
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Ann,
You have now got a link to Griffiths. This survey was a very detailed property valuation carried out through all of Ireland between about 1848 and 1864. It was done to stop the arguments which other incompetent or even dishonest surveys had resulted in after the Irish Poor Law (workhouses)
Act was passed. The principle was that the land holders had to pay for the poverty. It's main value is that it lists every householder and his landlord and is used in lieu of the lack of official census in Ireland. It is one of a series of documents known as the Census Substitutes.
Regards
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Ann, Perhaps the name Alicia is a clue. Maybe you should look at the marriage of William Phillips and Alicia Clawson in 1856.
You can view it on
www.ancestry.ireland.com
for £4
William's father was James and Alicia's was Samuel
There is a James Phillips leasing a house,offices and land in Drumgalvin Townland in Magherahamlet Parish, which is adjoining Loughinisland where the marriage took place.
The only Samuel Clawson I can find was in Breda Townland in Knockbreda Parish, about 11 miles away.
There is a William Phillips in Ballynahinch Townland, Magheradrool Parish.
Magheradrool, Magheramlet and Loughinisland Parishes all adjoin each other.
RosemaryJoan
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IGI has submitted entries for William Phillips married 25 Nov.1856 Maghadradroll, Co. Down to Alicia Clawson.
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So maybe we are getting closer. Alicia Clawson was baptised in 1838, father Samuel Clawson, mother Mary in Magheradrool. This is from Down/Downpatrick Parish Records in LDS. I wonder was Mary called Cleland by any chance. I still think you should pay the £4 as it will give you an address (hopefully) and father's occupation and also names of witnesses which might be useful.
There were no Clawsons living in that area when Griffiths was taken (1861-64) RosemaryJoan
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I hope that at last I can find one of my Irish' family,
One of John sons ,was named Samuel born 1906
I agree with you Rosemary Joan, I will purchase the marriage,
My other Irish' families are
Quinn
O'Hare or O'hara
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Let us know how you do.
Clawson isn't a very common name in Co. Down. My sister's in laws have Clawsons in their tree and they came from Knockbreda. RosemaryJoan
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RosemaryJoan
William Phillips 26 his occupation shopkeeper his father James Phillips is a Farmer.
Alicia Clawson 18, her Father Samuel Clawson Shopkeeper
By licence Rev Clarke
Seaforde Presbyterian Down Loughisland
Not sure if this help me in anyway
Ann
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I think it would be worth looking at finding baptisms in Seaford Presbyterian Church now. If these are your ancestors, and it looks as if they might be, then they would possibly have their children baptised in the church where they were married
on this site:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~rosdavies/index.html
you will find information on churches among lots of other things.
It has a photographs of Seaford Presbyterian Church and tells us that UHF(AncestryIreland) have baptisms from 1837. Maybe we should have another look there. RosemaryJoan
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I have search for births on AncestryIreland
could not find John Phillips,
Does AncestryIreland hold all records of Seaford church,
Would Seaford Church still holds the baptisms records
RosemaryJoan thanks for the your help
I really enjoyed looking at the Church website
I am going searching again , Ann
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According to my book 'Researching Down Ancestors' by Ian Maxwell PRONI has
Baptisms 1826-1925;marriages 1827-1936;deaths1829-45 transfer certificates 1839 etc.etc. for Seaforde Presbyterian Church. So you could look at them there (if you can get there - I can't!) or get someone to do a search for you. I have sent you a PM about this. RosemaryJoan
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Still looking at your records. Who were the witnesses at the marriage of William Phillips and Alicia Clawson?? RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary Joan
The witnesses were George Moore and John McMeekan
Ann
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Hi Ann,
I know this is an old thread but I have just found it.......William Phillips appears to have been the brother of my great-grandmother. I hope you log on to see this as I should be able to help you further with your search if you see this! William was a witness at his sisters wedding and there also seems to have been at least three more in the family, all children of James Phillips, farmer. Please contact me if you see this!
Hope to hear from you soon,
Martin
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Hi Rosniak
Nice to here from you , heres what I know up to now
William Phillips born abt 1830 (farmer) was married to Alicia Clawson,
their children were born in Crossgar
Alice abt 1858, was married to Allen Meadows in Liverpool
John George Shaw abt 1860 was married to Agnes Spencer in Liverpool
William Cleeland abt 1863 was married to Florence Liddy in LIverpool
I would be really please to hear from you
Ann
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Hi Ann,
That was quick! Glad to hear from you too, I take it that you live in England? William attended his sister Martha's wedding in 1854 - though this marriage was in Belfast, Martha had previously married in Magherahamlet in 1850 but her husband Andrew Bowles had died. Elizabeth was also at the wedding and all three were the children of James Phillips. Elizabeth married Henry Scott in 1856 in Magherahamlet. There was also a sister Mary and possibly a brother John. Are you on Genes Reunited? if so, I can share my tree with you if that helps.
Haven't figured out yet how to send private messages on here but feel free to send me one if you want and we could take this off the forum board.
Best wishes,
Martin
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Martin,
You may have to send another message to get the private message system to work. To do it click on the green squiggle beneath the name of the person you want to send the message to.
Regards
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Thanks for that kingskerswell! Think its working now OK.
Martin
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are you still on this thread as I am the grand-daughter of JGS Phillips?
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Welcome to Rootschat but murraymint hasn't been online since May 2010- fingers crossed that they see your post and respond here :)
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Hello,
Thanks for replying to this thread, glad you spotted our conversation. JGS Phillips was a cousin of my great grandmother Mary Ann so we are 3rd cousins (I think!)
It would be great to hear from you however I don't think we can exchange private messages on here until you have posted 3 messages so if you reply to this that will be your second one.
I am still in contact with 'murraymint' and will tell her you have posted here - you are more closely related to her as you are both descended from John George Shaw Phillips's father William.
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Hi ,
I am the grand-daughter of both JGS Phillips(2) and also William Cleland Phillips (my parents were cousins!) I had got to the same level as murraymint and was very happy to have my research confirmed. The Griffiths valuation link was very useful, thankyou.H.A.
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Thanks for that - I'm having trouble working this one out - does that mean your grandparents were John George Shaw Phillips (1888) and Alice Ashton (1886)? I have no note of any of their children except possibly a Florence in 1925? Your other grandparents were William Cleland Phillips and Emma Holt?
Just to keep you up-to-date with what I have discovered:
As you would have worked out from reading the previous posts, your grandfather's grandparents were William Phillips and Alicia Clawson.
I have made some headaway over the last few years on the siblings of William Phillips. Eldest was Martha Ann (1829, my ancestor) then your William (1830). After that I think there were another 9 children: John (about 1832), Elizabeth (1834), Samuel Cleland (1835), Mary Jane (1838), James (possibly 1840, not yet confirmed), Helen (1843, may have died when a child as I can find no trace of her after 1851), Sarah (1847), Ellen Margaret (1848), Andrew Thomas Clarke (1849). Andrew's baptism confirmed he was the 11th child in the family so I think I have now traced them all.
I am aware of at least 44 children that were born to these 11 siblings (there were probably more) so as you can see there are probably a lot of people out there that have descended from this one family.
Hope that information is of interest.
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Hi,
Yes my grand-father was JGS Phillips(b1888) m. Alice Ashton (b.1886).
They had 3 daughters Alice &Hilda(twins b.1919) and Catherine (b. 1921). My mother was Hilda.
My father was Walter Phillips (b1912). His father was William Cleland Phillips (b.1863) and mother Florence Liddy(b.1877).
Thankyou for the other information,
H.A.
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Hi
Nice to hear from you again
Hilary could you please tell me what you know of the parents of Alice Ashton (1886)?
I know that John G S Phillips(1888) married Alice Ashton (abt 1886),
her father was Thomas Ashton ?
but not sure who her mother was, have you a marriage for her parents,
Thanks
Ann
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Hi Ann,
My Great-grandmother's name was Catherine Ashton b.1866 but I can't find any trace of a marriage to Thomas. She may just have taken his name? She had another child Helen b.1897 (Auntie Nellie) but I'm lead to believe that this was by another partner who seems to be nameless. (Can you hear those skeletons rattling in the cupboard?). This is as far as I've been able to get on my maternal grand-mother's side I'm afraid.
Hilary
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Just seen these ancient posts on William Phillips. I just wanted to point out that William Phillips born 13 April 1864 is not William C Phillips. My William is the one married to Ellen Liddy in Manchester 1899 with parents John P Fuller and Ann McGill.
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Hello daisynook
My William Cleeland Phillips was born in Crossgar Ireland abt 1863,
was married to Florence Edith Liddy on the 5th February 1899 at St Catherine's Church Liverpool
Florence's father was David William Liddy
William was the brother of my Great Grandad John George Shaw Phillips .
Hope this helps
Ann
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Thank you Ann for that information. Looks like I have the wrong William Phillips, will do more research on him.