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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: tegan on Tuesday 09 September 08 18:34 BST (UK)
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LOOKING FOR ANYONE WITH A LINK TO THE FAMILY OF JOHN THOMAS BORN 1808, LLANELLY CARMARTHENSHIRE?
Wife MARY 1811
CHILDREN ANN, JOHN,ELIZABETH, WILLIAM
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Hello tegan
I am looking for relatives of my:
gg grandmother, Ann Thomas, born about 1814, Llanelli.
She had a brother, John Thomas of Water Street, Llanelly.
Ann Thomas married John Griffiths, a mariner on March 31, 1837 in
the Llanelli parish.
Do you see any connection with your Thomas family?
English Daisy
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Hi
Although I have Thomas and Griffiths on boths sides i don't think we are related, however I can't be sure as I don't have details of who my john thomas's parents were. Have you found who Ann's Parents are?
Regards Sharon
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Possibly of interest to one/both of you. I have John Thomas of Water Street in my family. He was the son on Jonah Thomas and Elizabeth Rees. John was present at his Father's death on the 28th April 1848, where John's address is given as Water Street. Jonah was originally a Carpenter but then was Publican of the Royal Oak Furnace in his later years. He died aged 68 i.e. born abt. 1781. Does this ring any bells? If so I can provide more details.
I haven't researched "my" John Thomas of Water Street Llanelly much but I have found a John Thomas, Water Street Llanelly listed as a Printer at http://www.llanelli-history.i12.com/Trade%20Directories_hunt%201849.htm in 1849. There is also a Thomas listed as a printer at Water Street in 1844 http://www.llanelli-history.i12.com/Trade%20Directories_pigot%201844.htm but this time no first name ans is listed as Rees and Thomas Water St.
Have you found your respective John Thomas's in the census and have professions etc.?
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Have found a more plausible entry for "my" John Thomas in 1851 living at Upper Water Street, Llanelly (H0107, Piece 2468, Folio 242, page 21). Born abt. 1800, therefore doesn't look like yours Tegan but still may be the same as yours English Daisy?
A Carpenter (same profession as his father) born St.Clears Carmarthen abt. 1800, (his parents Jonah and Elizabeth had moved to Llanelly by 1806 as next child I know of (Elizabeth) was born in Llanelly in 1806). He was living with his wife Elizabeth (56), son John Thomas (21) also a Carpenter, dau Ann Thomas (15), dau Martha Powell (nee Thomas) (24) Widow and a Grocer, grand dau Elizabeth Powell (1), nephew, James Davies (19), servant Hannah Thomas (23).
In 1841 was listed as just living at Water street with his wife, dau Ann (6), son John (12), and dau Martha (14) (HO107, Piece 1379, Book 6, District 7, Folio 9, Page 10, Line 12).
By 1861 it looks like he was living as a lodger at Park Street (formerly Joiner with no mention of his wife or the rest of the family (RG9, Pice 4112, Folio 46, Page 37)
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Don't suppose any of you have Ann Thomas married to William Lewis c 1860?
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Hi i have an Ann Thomas born 1839, parents John & Mary as yet I don't have a Husband for her
Sharon
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Thanks. I thnk mine was a teensie bit older, perhaps 1834, but I don't know much about her as yet.
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Hi everyone!
Just checked in and read the several interesting Thomas posts.
I do not know "my" John Thomas occupation or names of his parents.
His brother-in-law, John Griffiths, was a mariner before going to work
in the Llanelly copperworks.
Ann Thomas and John Griffiths had the following children.
Hopefully, this information may lead to my John Thomas.
While most children were born in Llanelly, it appears that they
were christened in Pembrey.
Jane Griffiths b. 1837, Llanelly
Mary Griffiths b. abt 1839, Llanelly
Ann Griffiths b. 1843, Llanelly
John Griffiths b. 1846, Llanelly
William Griffiths b. 1850, Pembrey
Thomas Griffiths b. 1857, Pembrey
1851 Census - Griffiths family living at Towynbach
1861 Census - Griffiths living at Bankybrooks, Pembrey
1871 Census - Griffiths living at The Village, Llan
1841 Census - Mill Street, Llanelly
Ann Griffith, 27, Mariners Wife
Jane Griffiths, 3
Mary Griffiths, 1
Regards
English Daisy
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Hi Roycymru
Thank you for John Thomas family post replies 3 and 4.
Is there any way of finding out how many Thomas families lived on Water Street, Llanelly, back in 1837, when Jane Griffiths, daughter of John Griffiths and Ann Thomas was born?
I will save these two Thomas posts! How are you related to this Thomas family, Roy?
Regards
English Daisy
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Hi English Daisy
The only way I know of to check on how many Thomas's may possibly have lived at Water Street in 1837 is to look at the 1841 census entries for Water Street. Fortunately I have access to this. The only other John Thomas I can find is aged 60, a Mason, living on his own. There is no record of the John Thomas, printer but as the first record I have for him is 1844 he may have moved into Water Street after 1841, in fact it looks like this John Thomas appears in the 1851 census at Water Street as a bookbinder as Head of the family (age 23) with sister Catherine Thomas (30) Dress Maker, sister Mary Thomas (possibly 30, possibly a Grocer, difficult to make out), sister Esther Thomas (age 29, Domestic Duties) and bother Henry (?) aged 17 (?), Printers Compositer, all have possible birth place of Llanwinio Carmarthenshire.
Where does your reference to John Thomas of Water Street come from?
My link in on my grandmother's side. John was a brother of William Thomas (father of both was Jonah). William Thomas and Margaret Williams produced a John Thomas! John Thomas married Sarah Edmund and produced Margaret Thomas. Margaret Thomas married Walter Rees who produced Sarah Elizabeth Rees my grandmother.
Roy
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Hi Roycymru
My reference to John Thomas of Water Street came from
Jane Griffiths Birth Certificate.
Information provided for informant's residence column on certificate is:
John Thomas of Water Street Llanelly
Brother of said Ann Thomas
If John Thomas is the only Thomas family living on Water Street,
in the 1841 Census, there is a high probability that we are researching
the same John Thomas.
What do you think?
Regards
English Daisy
Ann Thomas would be my gg grandmother!
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Hi English Daisy
Difficult to be definite especially as John Thomas was such a common name. I have no record of Jonah Thomas also having a daughter Ann (but my records are far from complete). The John Tomas, Mason who was living on his own in Water Street in 1841 I would guess is unlikely to be Ann's brother as he was "60" in 1841 while Ann was 27 therefore the age gap is too large. But then if it is "my" John Thomas why was he the informant on Ann's daughter, Jane's birth certificate it seems unusual? There seemed to have been a lot of people living at Water Street in 1841 and it looks like one of those places that people came and went from so although you John Thomas was there in 1837 he may have moved out by 1841? Could really do with something else to link them, but not sure what. Anyone else have any ideas?
roycymru
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Hi Roycymru
The reason why Ann Thomas brother was the informant
on her daughter, Jane Griffiths, birth certificate is that her
husband, John Griffiths, was a mariner and therefore likely at sea
when Jane was born in 1837!
In 1841, John Griffiths was not listed with his mariner wife, Ann Thomas
on Mill Street, Llanelly. He was likely away again.
How far is Mill Street from Water Street in Llanelly?
Regards
English Daisy
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Hi English Daisy
Thought I would search and see where Mill Street was in relation to Water Street in 1841. This is where it gets confusing as there was a Mill Street and a "Wern" Mill Street. Also there was a Lower Water Street, two Water Streets in different districts and a "Wern" Water Street!
I did find Ann Griffith on page 9 at Mill Street (District 6). Preceding this page 1-8 covers one of the Water Streets! This seems the most likely candidate for the Water Street your John Thomas lived at. Although in 1841 I couldn't initially find a definite John Thomas living in Water Street there was a Jno Thomas (35) Printer and Jno Thomas Jnr(?) (9) (on page 7). There seem to be several first names abbreviated to Jno on this page. Looking on the Internet the most commonly agreed consensus for what Jno means is John
http://www.british-genealogy.com/resources/registers/registers/realnames.htm
This is confirmed by the fact that on this page is a Jno Christopher (26) a Tide Waiter and in the 1851 census there is a John Christopher (36) a Tide Waiter.
Therefore to me this definitely looks like your John Thomas!
I thought I have found him again in 1851. John Thomas a Master Printer employing 2 men. Age 44, born abt. 1807, born Carmarthen. Now living at Priory Street Carmarthen (HO107/2473/~F348), with wife Amy (37), Son Wiliam (11), and daughters Miriam (7), Martha (4) and Alice (2). However there was a John Thomas 36 a Printer living at Peter Street in Carmarthen in 1841, so I think this may be this one.
However the earlier references I found to "John Thomas, Water Street Llanelly listed as a Printer at http://www.llanelli-history.i12.com/Trade%20Directories_hunt%201849.htm in 1849 and a Thomas listed as a printer at Water Street in 1844 http://www.llanelli-history.i12.com/Trade%20Directories_pigot%201844.htm but this time no first name and is listed as Rees and Thomas Water St." now look highly likely to be your John Thomas.
Ideally you need to find a John Thomas, Printer in Llanelly in 1851. I can't but others might.
Roy
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Hi roycmyru
Thank you very much for your very informative last post!
I have sent you a PM, since my reply is quite long.
Regards
English Daisy
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Hi English Daisy,
Mill Street & Water Street are in the same area, almost the town centre of Llanelly. They are in the area of Anne St, on the Wern (which is a hill).
Please check the 1891 & 1901 census for Ystradfodwg Glamorgan and you will find at Metaxa Street a Thomas Griffiths collier of Pembrey born in the right year. I believe this is the correct Thomas, not the one from Brynbach farm or from Colliers Rd Llanelly.
Regards
Bynea Girl
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Hi Bynea Girl
Thank you for your post.
I will check the 1891 and 1901 census for Thomas Griffiths.
English Daisy
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Hi Bynea Girl
I looked up the 1891 and 1901 censuses for Thomas Griffiths today.
Could you please tell me why you think the Glamorgan Thomas
Griffiths is the correct one.
Your thoughts appreciated.
Thank you
English Daisy
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English Daisy,
Thomas Griffiths 1858 was born in Pembrey not in Llanelly. The places are entirely separate. Thomas Griffiths in 1891 & 1901 was living in Clydach (the Parish of Ystradyfodwg) which is north of Swansea going into the Swansea valley and up into the Rhondda valley.
In the 1870s the Cambrian Colliery opened and there would have been much work for the Thomas Griffiths of the world.
Thomas Griffiths the husband of Rebecca is most certainly not the Thomas Griffiths of your search. This person was born on the Bryn which is miles away further east than Pembrey. In fact in the 1861 census he appears on the same page as my g.g.grandfather!!
I haven´t looked at the Thomas Griffiths from Colliers St Llanelly, but if you were born in Pembrey it was Pembrey and if you were born in Llanelly it was Llanelly not Pembrey.
Regards
Bynea Girl.
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Hi Bynea Girl
Thank you for your post. Yes, I knew Pembrey and Llanelly were separate places. I was thinking of Pembrey as a Sub-district at the time.
I have two certified birth certificates.
1837 Certificate
Registration district is Llanelly
Llanelly is Sub-district in County of Carmarthen
1860 Certificate
Registration district is Llanelly
Pembrey is Sub-district in County of Carmarthen
In the future, I will type:
Pembrey, Carmarthen and Llanelly, Carmarthen. ;D
Lots to learn when one lives outside UK!
For anyone interested in posting more information on Thomas Griffiths,
it is best that a new thread be started.
Regards
English Daisy
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Hi English Daisy
This query isn't about your current thread, but I'm new to Rootschat and aren't sure how else to contact you.
I notice that last year you were interested in George Price and Allen Hayes Price. I am related to them and wonder if you are too.
Let me know!
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Hi kath202
Yes, I am related to George Price, station master.
Please send me a PM (personal message) by passing your mouse over English Daisy, in the upper left corner.
Click on English Daisy and a new window will open.
Follow instructions to send a personal message to me.
I look forward to hearing from you.
English Daisy
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Hi English Daisy
Thought I would search and see where Mill Street was in relation to Water Street in 1841. This is where it gets confusing as there was a Mill Street and a "Wern" Mill Street. Also there was a Lower Water Street, two Water Streets in different districts and a "Wern" Water Street!
I did find Ann Griffith on page 9 at Mill Street (District 6). Preceding this page 1-8 covers one of the Water Streets! This seems the most likely candidate for the Water Street your John Thomas lived at. Although in 1841 I couldn't initially find a definite John Thomas living in Water Street there was a Jno Thomas (35) Printer and Jno Thomas Jnr(?) (9) (on page 7). There seem to be several first names abbreviated to Jno on this page. Looking on the Internet the most commonly agreed consensus for what Jno means is John
http://www.british-genealogy.com/resources/registers/registers/realnames.htm
This is confirmed by the fact that on this page is a Jno Christopher (26) a Tide Waiter and in the 1851 census there is a John Christopher (36) a Tide Waiter.
Therefore to me this definitely looks like your John Thomas!
I thought I have found him again in 1851. John Thomas a Master Printer employing 2 men. Age 44, born abt. 1807, born Carmarthen. Now living at Priory Street Carmarthen (HO107/2473/ F348), with wife Amy (37), Son Wiliam (11), and daughters Miriam (7), Martha (4) and Alice (2). However there was a John Thomas 36 a Printer living at Peter Street in Carmarthen in 1841, so I think this may be this one.
However the earlier references I found to "John Thomas, Water Street Llanelly listed as a Printer at http://www.llanelli-history.i12.com/Trade%20Directories_hunt%201849.htm in 1849 and a Thomas listed as a printer at Water Street in 1844 http://www.llanelli-history.i12.com/Trade%20Directories_pigot%201844.htm but this time no first name and is listed as Rees and Thomas Water St." now look highly likely to be your John Thomas.
Ideally you need to find a John Thomas, Printer in Llanelly in 1851. I can't but others might.
Roy
Hi
I know we couldn't find John Thomas as printer in Llanelly again in 1851 but in the following directory http://www.llanelli-history.i12.com/Trade%20Directories_post%20office%201866.htm from 1866 there is a reference to a John Thomas of Water Street again
" Weekly Newspapers
Two newspapers are published: The Guardian, printed and published every Thursday by the proprietors Messrs David Williams & Son; Price 1d; Liberal Politics; Office Swanfield Place
The Llanelly Telegraph: Printed and published every Thursday morning by the proprietor Mr John Thomas; Price 2d; Liberal Politics; Offices Water Street and Upper Park Street
Both of which have a respectable circulation."
Therefore it might be worth looking in the 1861 and 1871 census for him.
My subscriptions are currently expired, can anyone help and try and find him?
Thanks
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Hi English Daisy
You may have already found him already but I have managed to find John Thomas in 1851! This time living at Upper Water Street:
John Thomas (44) Head, Married, Master Printer Employing 3 Men, Born Carmarthen
John Morgan Thomas (19) Son, Printer, Born Carmarthen
Both of these tie up with the 1841 Census entry
Plus living with them were:
Mary Thomas (39) Wife, Born Neath
David Godfrey Thomas (4), Born Llanelly
Henry Griffith Thomas (1mth), Born Llanelly
Mary Eliza Thomas (2) Born Llanelly
Given the 3 younger children were born Llanelly (and all less than 10) that John Morgan Thomas was born in Carmarthen and in 1841 there is no mention of Mary I wonder if Mary was his second wife?
Anyway, hopefully there is enough there to keep you busy!
Roy
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I am completely new to this form of communication so please forgive errors.
Your last post to Welsh Daisy is correct and I need to contact her as I am a relative.
Welsh Buttercup
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Dear English Daisy,
I'm such a new member that I cannot get the hang of this at all! I can't send a PM as requested because I need more posts, and I, too, would prefer to do our connecting "out of the public eye". Can you suggest how I can reach you without either of us disclosing details.
welshbuttercup
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Welshbuttercup
Thank you for contacting me. I look forward to hearing
from you again.
English Daisy
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A distant relative has told us that her niece traced her (i.e. the niece's) grandfather's family back as far as the 1780s. The grandfather in question was a Llanelly Thomas whose wife's maiden name was Williams (bet there weren't many couples that fitted that description! ;) ;D )
Does any of the posters on this thread think they might be the "distant relative's niece" referred to?
Pete
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Hi there! I am a descendent of the Meyler family of Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire, and it sounds like Owen Meyler’s descendents were a Thomas family who lived in Bwlch y Gwynt. Just started to research this connection, but would love to hear from anyone who connects to this family. Owen Meyler is my 7X GGF, and he lived at Longford Farm in Llanddewi Velfrey, where he died in 1804.