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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: Barrie Green on Thursday 15 January 09 03:12 GMT (UK)
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Elizabeth Jane Batten, married Richard William Ovenden in 1863 in Islington. She was widowed there in 1866 and probably with the help of an Anne Heath (ex Lady of the Bedchamber to Queen Adelaide) she came out to New Zealand in 1867 to be a wife to Charles Heath in Kaipara. They married in Auckland and he died in Kaipara in 1869. Their 2 children, Charles and Edith were sent back to England to the care of Anne Heath.
Elizabeth Jane Heath married Rev. Moses Breach (ex Bromham, Wiltshire, Eng) and they went to New Plymouth, NZ with their 2 surviving children, Kotteril Vaudre Somes Breach and Yruth Janeive Venorah Breach (spelling is correct!).
Elizabeth Jane Breach was in an English Will in 1892 but was deceased at Rev. Moses Breach's Death in in New Plymouth in 1913.
Someone said ' a Batten drowned at N. P.' to me once when I was unaware of this thread. Cannot trace it in Taranaki Papers of the time as 6 months are missing at all Libraries.
Her death is not on NZ Death records for if she did drown, no body may have been found . She is not on Moses's headstone either.
Yruth was with her father till he died and then married Henry Wilfred Nordstrum in 1914 at Kaipara. I would like to trace her also.
Thanks - Faith Green
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Hi Faith
There is another marriage for YRUTH
NORDSTROM Yruth Janeve Venorah
(*)
to Alfred Duncan Grey ADAMS
Bye
Althea
A death for a YRUTH ADAMS
http://www.waitakere.govt.nz/cnlser/cm/cemeterysearch/cemeterydetails.aspx?id=100884 1959 age 82
(*) Moderator Comment:
Information deleted as it is likely to contravene NZ law (BDMRR Amendment Act 2008)
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Hi faith
You may have this, a birth entry for the son of Moses and Elizabeth, 19th January 1833 and on the same page you'll see Rev. Breach married a couple Hamilton and Bayly.
On Papers Past I entered E,izabeth Breach, the entry I found is under BMD, Taranki Herald 15 Feb 1873. There is quite a few articles on the Rev.Mr Breach.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=CL3&e=-------10--1----0-all
Nzsg index information
Kotteril married a Laura Mary Morris in 1912, folio 0307.
Probate information for him
Date 20 Dec 1894, Auckland and New South Wales, a retired farmer and Document Number is Z012314, this is a Transmission Document. It its held at the LINZ office in Hamilton and needs to be viewed in person.
Laura Mary Breach probate information.
Place: New Plymouth and a widow, filed 3 Dec 1958, Archives Rererence is ABAJW4079 433/58 held at Wellington Archives.
Moses and Elizabeth married in 1870, folio 0252
Have you been in contact with the New Plymouth library regarding Elizabeth? If not I can go and see if I can find any infromation.
Regards
lil
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I suppose another option for Elizabeth Jane is that she could have gone to England and died there, as there are several by that name in the time period you want (FreeBMD)
BYe
Althea
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--- NSW AUSTRALIA - BDM INDEX - DEATHS
26448/1948
BREACH - Kotteril Vawdris Soames (sic)
Father - Moses Soames
Mother - Elizabeth
Registered at Petersham
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Hi Faith :)
Was there a death notice for Moses BREACH ?
( I note you say Elizabeth's name doesn't appear on Moses' headstone ... but perhaps there's a "clue" in the death notice - e.g. if she's not mentioned, then it may be that they had parted company) ?
Lu
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I can look for the death notice if it has not already been done :)
Faith you said Moses died in 1913, do you have a month at least for him, its not online.
lil
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Thank you Althea, Lucy2 and lil growler for your
wonderful help!
So Yruth married again! I did check her NZ Death till her age of 100yrs but only under the name of Nordstrum. When I found no Nordstrums I wondered if she had gone back to Sweden with her first husband. There was very little on the NZSoc. Gen. Index discs either. I will now order those 2 certificates.
This also explains why 'maybe' Yruth's half sister, Edith Heath (married Griffith Ellis in Canada )is shown on several shipping lists coming to NZ from Canada from 1941 onwards. She may have been visiting Yruth as Edith lived till 1964.
I had followed all the Kotterill Breach family up as a descendant is still living in Taranaki, his probate gave no clues.
Moses had a brother Augustus Somes B. in Manaia, Taranaki and he is in Paperspast too.
The only Death notice of Rev. Moses Breach is in the Personal column of 'The Budget', no family mentioned. This is where the Taranaki Herald has 6 months missing, the only paper available for this time. I was there in Nov. last year and I also checked later with the Nat. Lib. who said the missing papers were never available for copying.
However, Rev Moses B. was involved in a big courtcase regarding the attempted burning down of St. Andrew's Church in the 1880's due to a long disagreement with the Presbytery there. I hoped at the Rev's Death there may have been an Obit. mentioning that and what had happened to Elizabeth Jane.
Yruth Janeive Venorah must be Ruth - Ruth an Aunt in UK who mentioned EJ in her Will, Jane from E Jane her mother and Venorah from a ggmother Norah. Wierd isn't it but a great name to feed into an Index!
Thanks lil for your offer of help. Moses d. 13 Oct. 1913 and is buried at Te Henui. But maybe I've got all I can get at this stage. I was given the Church Office phone number but at the time they were very busy arranging for a Church anniversary so I didn't follow it up. But I may have gone as far as I can go at this stage.
Grateful thanks Faith Green 8) 8)
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http://www.archives.presbyterian.org.nz/TaranakiPresbytery.htm
Due to the Rev Moses possible involvement with the fire, it may well be then that Wife did depart, it must have been very unpleasant for all
Given the ongoing fight 2 June 1888, it may be no wonder sadly an obit can not be found
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=HBH18880602.1.2&e=-------10--1----0-all
Do you think he was ever readmitted to the ministry, if so the church archives may have some more info
Bye
Althea
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Do you think he was ever readmitted to the ministry, if so the church archives may have some more info
Interesting ;D .... the Te Henui cemetery record doesn't give much detail ... but his occupation (former occupation ?) is listed .... as "Presbyterian Minister" ??
Hi Faith
This might be worth a try ? (Has biographies of former ministers).
http://www.archives.presbyterian.org.nz/
(although ... if he'd had some "bother" with the church hierarchy, then maybe not ? )
Lu
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----- whoops !
Seems the Presbyterian Archives are about to undergo reconstruction / redevelopment (commencing 19 Jan. 2009)
.... website says "closed until approx. April 2009). :(
Lu
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Hi faith
I will go to the library next week, see what can be dug up. I will have a look for information on Elizabeth aswell.
lil
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Hi Faith
Was able to find a biography of Moses BREACH at Presbyterian Archives, afterall.
http://www.archives.presbyterian.org.nz/Page151.htm
(... some of it is repetitious of the earlier link which Althea provided ... but at least the Church didn't "forget" him entirely. :D )
Lu
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---- the Court case which resulted from the incident in early June 1888 - (Althea's link in reply 7) - , is reported in the "Taranaki Herald" (PapersPast) under heading "Police Court", on the following dates:
18 June 1888 - (oddly ?) starts on page 3, column 1
.... continues on page 2.
Verdict appears on 19 June 1888 - page 2.
(The articles provide a little more (perhaps helpful ?) info about Rev. BREACH).
Lu
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Hi faith
At the library today I found this photo of K.V.Breach. I can't imagine there would be many K.V Breach's around and presume he is your Kotteril. I also presume he is the driver.
I couldn't find a funeral notice for Moses. There is no mention anywhere so far on Elizabeth under the name Heath, Batten or Breach, nothing in the Indexes Biographies or Archives but I will keep looking as I need to go back and have a look at the Taranaki Almanac, there is further information on Mose's in these books as well as in the Fred Butler Indexes.
Regards
lil
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Beaut photo lil !! :) (Wow ! ... that really is some car) !
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Just got back in and lil what a photo! Thank you so much!
Kotteril moved up to Auckland later in his life, he and his wife had no children but much later in life they went to Sydney where he died but he didn't intend to stay there permanently. For some reason in Aussie he was known as Donald Victor Ross Breach. His widow came back to NP for the end of her days so that could be her next to him in that earlier photo.
They were a really strange family by the sounds of things, their names to start with! Moses definitely goes back to other Wiltshire UK Breaches but as for the others!
Curiouser and curiouser!
I'm going to order Yruth's Probate from the Auckland Archives tomorrow (I'm in Palm.Nth) to see if any family names appear.
Wonderful help and many thanks.
Faith :) :) :)
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Hi faith
I was wondering myself whether that maybe Laura next to Kotteril. There is no mention of what year this photo is taken. It's a pity Kotteril changed his name, I really like it. Do you have any idea when Laura died and where she is buried. With a bit of luck I may get back to the library tommorrow, if not sometime this week.
Isn't the car a Classic! Lucy. I could see myself in one like this...........hat and all :)
Regards
lil
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Hi Lil
Laura Mary Breach was buried at Opunake 20 October 1958.
Age 75 yrs, RIP. (From the NZ Soc. Of Gen. Burial Disc) Her Probate and Will is in Wellington which I hope to cite sometime.
The Breach who contacted me via the NZ Soc. Genealogist's Magazine was a desc. of the brother of Moses, Augustus Somes Breach ( ? nameof Manaia) who knew little of Moses's family but had helpful ideas of the UK families. So I didn't actually keep her emails once I'd sorted out the UK info.
Please don't go out of your way chasing the data, you've been so helpful to date.
Where was the photo found - in a newspaper? I wish to record it's source - it's great!! ::) ::)
Faith
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Hi faith
The photo for K.V Breach was taken in 1914 and it's from the photos collection at the Library.
I have taken a photo of Moses's Headstone/Plaque for you. The inscription says:
In memory of Rev M.S. Breach. Died 31st October 1913, aged 89. At Rest.
Next time I'm at the library I'll have another look for his funeral notice, as I was searching around the 13th Oct , not the 31st :) There is no mention of Elizabeth at the City Council in their notes on Moses.
http://www.pukeariki.com/en/resources/passengerlists.htm you maybe able to open the lists from here, I can't though for some reason it says web page cannot be displayed. The passenger listing is extracted from Papers Past. From the library I have the following for Rev Breach and I'm sure there is a connection here with Mrs breach traveling to the Southern Ports as well. This may give us a clue where to start looking for her.
Newspaper Date:14 April 1875
Departing New Plymouth and arriving 13 Apr 1875, Southern Ports on the Wellington, Mrs Breach.
Newspaper Date: 1 Sep 1875
Departing New Plymouth and arriving 31 Aug 1875, Southern Ports on the Hawea, Mrs Breach.
Newspaper Date: 16 Oct 1875
Departing Southern Ports and arriving 13 Oct 1875 in New Plymouth on the Taupo, Mrs Breach
Newspaper Date: 21 Feb 1879
Departing New Plymouth and arriving 20 Feb 1879, Southern Ports/Lyttelton on the Wellington, Rev Mr Breach.
Newspaper Date: 5 Apr 1879
Departing Wellington and arriving 5 April 1879 in New Plymouth on the Taiaroa, Rev Mr Breach.
Newspaper Date: 11 Dec 1879
Departing New Plymouth and arriving 11 Dec 1879, Southern Ports on the Taiaroa, Rev Mr Breach.
The are 16 entries altogether for Breach on the passenger lists the other entries are for
( separartely ) Mr and Mrs Breach and/or family either traveling between New Plymouth and Manukau or Waitara and Kaipara. If anyone needs me to put this information up, I can do so. :)
If you would to PM your email address I can send through these photos of Moses Headstone. ;D
Regards
lil
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Opps..... and this information
From the Taranaki Almanac, 1874, P 195 and 1875, p245.
Presbyterian, Scotch Kirk, Devon Street ( East ) Rev. M. Somes Breach. Service on Sundays at 11am and 6:30 pm, on Fridays, Bible Class at 6:30 pm and Singing Classes at 7:30pm.
Taranaki Almanac 1880 p 245
Presbyterian, Scotch Kirk, Devon Street East. Rev M.Somes Breach and Rev P Cameron. Services on Sundays at 11am and 6:30 pm
I couldn't find any further information on the Breach's. The Fred Butler Indexes that I looked at all contained the same information regarding the articles on Papers Past.
Regards
lil
There is another Breach family mentioned in the Index cards, a Mr Samuel A Breach and his wife, they are associated with the Opunake news in the Taranaki Hearald.
To add , a Mrs Breach and son departing New Plymouth for Soutern Ports http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TH18851229.2.4.3&srpos=3&e=-------10--1----2%22mrs+breach%22-all
There is a advertisement here , mentioning Rev Mrs Breach offering her services in Nursing.
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=TH18801102.2.14.5&srpos=12&e=-------10--11----2%22mrs+breach%22-all
I think this maybe the same Mrs Breach in Manaia in 1887 minus the Title Rev http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=HNS18871114.2.18.4&srpos=82&e=-------10--81----2%22mrs+breach%22-all
and this maybe her again advertising for a Lady help in 1903 http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=HNS19030110.2.3.6&srpos=90&e=-------10--81----2%22mrs+breach%22-all
and again this maybe still her here in 1910, in one of her previous advertisements it mentions she also is a needle worker. Under Fancy Work Division: Exhibit Lace, Mrs Breach
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=HNS19100714.2.64&srpos=108&e=-------10--101----2%22mrs+breach%22-all
I've had a look on the SDtdc site and haven't found burial for her.
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Thanks to all again!
The headstone photo will be marvellous Lil.
* will reach me.
I now need to digest all the newspaper references.I knew there were quite a few so I'll work methodically through everything.
One I did get to see earlier was about Eliz J Breach milking a cow! Like so many others, these pioneer women came from inner London to this raw country and had to roll up their sleeves and get on with it!
The Church affair is heavily covered as well.
Grateful thanks - Faith
8) 8) 8)
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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might pay to PM lil and remove your email address so that spammers do not use it.
It will pa to do this before a mod sees it
Regards
newbe
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Thank you Lil for the wonderful photos.
Good to see that daughter Yruth got a good burial site and headstone done.
I've sent for her Will and Death Cert. May have a bit of data.
Now, back to peruse all the data on Eliz J Breach that you all have sent to me! Something may turn up yet!!
::) ::) ::) ::)
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Hi faith
Apologises, I have been a little busy over the last month. I haven't forgotten your look-up for a funeral notice for Moses. I will have a look this week :)
Regards
lil
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Hi faith
There is no Funeral Notice for Moses. I looked up to 2 weeks past his death date, disappointing.
Regards
lil
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Hello Liz
Thank you so much once again for your help. I'll now contact that NP Church to see if there is anything in their Archival Data about Rev. Moses Breach's wife's departure/death. Her daughter Yruth (Nordstrum died in 1918 I've since found out) married again in 1934 and was visited many times by her half sister Edith and her family all in Canada. They even came out to her 2nd wedding! I now have all the NZ certs. but need to continue at the Canadian end.
Kind Regards Faith Green :) :) :) :)
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Just found your posts on this dear lady (EJ Breach) & no I can't find out what happened to her,I did wonder if she went home to England as she was unhappy because of the seperation with the her Heath children & she gave birth to a stillborn daughter in Dec 1874-- my interest is in her first marriage to Richard W Ovenden, they had a son born in Scotland & died in Dunedin.
Charles Heath & his first wife had a son called Henry.
Charles Heath died on Lizzie's birthday.
There are copies of letters in the Alexander Turnbull Library, Wellington, New Zealand, they were anonymously donated, via NZ House, London, Dec 1960. They are shipboard letters written by Mrs Elizabeth J (Lizzie) Ovenden & letters from Whakahara, Kaipara.
One of my Ovenden aunts had a lot to do for her, for many years as Yruth was practically bed ridden.
Hope this little bit helps, Nanafos
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Sorry, I forgot to say the Heath children were sent to live with Anne in 1874. I've just found some more of my papers & letters were written to Anne (you know of her) & to her sisters Mary & Grace (not sure whose sisters) Other relations that wrote to Anne enquiring after Lizzie were Fanny Butcher, Mary Forman, Mary Glover, Grace Lodge Fanny Marshall & Fanny Stretch. There are 3 of Lizzie's letters in the book titled "The Lives of Pioneer Women in NZ, selected by Sarah Ell"
Nanafos
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Hello Nanafos,
Thank you for contacting me per the Ovenden family. I recently found the Probate for a Douglas Richard W Ovenden in Dunedin, Engineer in 1923 and was toying with the idea of sending for it. Now I certainly will. Do you know anything about him? The Will may disclose his family etc.
Lizzie always yearned for a proper education for him once the other children had left. I have probably found him in the 1891 English census at Toxteth Park, Liverpool, Lancs. where he is a boarder and his occupation is ' Student of Electricity and Physics. Then alarm bells started ringing in my memory for also in that same Eastern Toxteth part of Liverpool is the household of Oliver Joseph Lodge, (later Sir - England's most notable physical Scientist). In the Lodge household is Edith Heath 21y b. N Z, living on own means. OJL's wife, Mary F A nee Marshall is the daughter of Mary, a sister of Lizzie Batten/Ovenden/Heath/Breach. She was also widowed early and had this small daughter and family tinkering got her married to a much older Tompkinson. So they must have taken over the 'looking after' of the chn after Charlotte Anne Heath died in 1884. Douglas is on the 1901 Census in Hornsey Mdx London, a boarder and Electrical Journeyman. He must have come back to NZ.
Yes, I have recently purchased copies all the 105 pages of the letters from the Heaths having read about them in 'The Old Kaipara" by Byrne. I have also been in contact with a Canadian descendant of Edith Harriett Heath who had been told that Lizzie found Rev Breach very difficult to live with and went to her daughter in Canada.Will continue in another frame.
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I feel Douglas was born in Aberdeen, Scotland as a brother of Lizzie's, Abraham Batten was still there before returning to London. He had married an Isabella Machray and all their chn were born there. This could be the 'Isa' referred to in some letters. Rich. Ovenden died in 2 Feb 1866 and Douglas wasn't b. till 16 August 1866. Just think, she went thru' 2 births as a widow! Family looked after family then!
Lizzie was left 100 pounds when Charlotte Anne died in 1884 and she may have used that for her passage to Canada when Douglas was independent. The 2 chn got 3000 and 4000 pounds each in the Will.
Charles Heath's sister Mary married a Richard Forman whose son Arthur later was a teacher at Repton School Derbyshire. At that time Geoffrey Francis Fisher came to teach there also,and married Rosamond Chevallier Forman their daughter. He later was the Archbishop of Canterbury and probably that is how the letters, thankfully, were given to NZ House. Grace was a sister of Chas Heath and she married Oliver Lodge, Father of Sir OJ Lodge. Mary is probably Lizzie's sister Mary Tompkinson or Mary Forman Chas. sister. Fanny is Chas sister Frances Stretch wife of Rev. John Stretch, Bishop of Newcastle Aust, later at Maldon, Melbourne.
Yruth died of pancreatic cancer, her 1st husband d. of the 1918 flu. Would love any bits of the Ovenden family.
Thnks for making the contact :) :) :) Faith Green
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Thanks for that -- I've been trying to find out if Lizzie's husb Rich Ovenden is my rellie, He suppossedly went to India under the name Francis Batte(a)n, so I think that alone put's him in the family but of course that was prior to 1860.
Anyway I have Douglas' birth & marriage certs, don't know how to get them to you though, please tell me. I also have Richard & Elizabeth's marr cert.
Nanafos
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Oops didn't answer your questions - Yes Douglas was born in Aberdeen 16/08/1866, he married Annie Meekin age 32 & I don't think there were any children as I've not located any. Can't find Douglas' resting place either & was holding off sending for the death cert until I could/can confirm wheter or not he's on my tree. He died in Dunedin, NZ, his wife died before him & is buried at the Southern Cemetery, Dunedin, death 20 July 1930 the surname is spelt Overden if you're looking it up.
Douglas is also on the 1901 census with the Mayer's in Hornsey, Mdx RG13/1238, Folio 36, pg 17 he's listed as a boarder & only as Douglas Ovenden.
He's also on the ship "Fifeshire" as a greaser (crew) to Sydney NSW, 25 Nov 1895, he was also on the ship "Buteshire" arr. Sydney 22 Oct 1900.
Nanafos
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Thanks Nanafos - I have RW Ovenden's Death Certificate and here are the details.
reg. Hendon, Mdx. d, 2 Feb. 1886 at Devonshire Place, Childs Hill, 29yrs, Clerk to the Works of Sewerage,cause of death-Rupture of blood vessels, 21 days, general decay and consumption.E.J. Ovenden present at death, her res - Devonshire Place, Childs Hill, Hendon. Reg. 5 Feb. 1866. Joseph Howse, Registrar.
I was going to send for the Birth Cert thru' Scotlandspeople. Perhaps you could send me th details like I have done? Saves extra work. I also have the Marriage Cert. Of EJ & RW.
I have checked today on Annie and Douglas Ovenden's Probates. They each left a Will and both Probates are held at the Dunedin Archives. I will email them tomorrow to see if I can purchase them and have them sent to me. Then I can pass them on to you if they will do this. Can't find DRW's burial either.
Thanks for the Daily Southern Cross Heath details - I'll work through those in the morning. I have been meaning to do that for some time and it slipped my mind. I had a Marriage of Rev. Moses Breach to Hannah Taylor, 8 Dec 1859 Chittoe, Wiltshire, Eng. That will be her.
Thanks for your help - Faith Green :) :) :)
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Many thanks Faith, really great, I've sent a "request" to Practical Family about Richard William O, I feel he's the one in the family but would like proof of course before adding Lizzie & family. I'm 2 hrs up the road from you in the sunny bay, not at the moment though. The Ovenden name has been hard to decipher for the transcribers etc which makes life interesting.
I have a typewritten copy of a letter Joseph sent to Francis in which he describes Richard's joining the army but I've not seen the original so don't know if it's been transcribed correctly.
Nanafos
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Oops, forgot DRW Ovenden born 16 Aug 1866 at 4.40am, 21 Adelphi Court, Aberdeen. Father: Richard William O, Civil Engineer, (deceased) & Elizabeth Jane O nee Batten, Uncle Batten was the Informant the occupier & present.
Nanafos
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Here's a bit more for you - Edith Honor (sic) Ellis died 2 May 1964, Victoria, BC checked BC BDM's, Honor Jessie Simmons died 4 Dec 1987 age 79 at Dawson Creek.
Birth Notice, The Times, England Monday Aug 3, 1914, pg 1, reads: Ellis. - On the 30th July, at 16 Elmgrove-road, Gorleston, Suffolk, to Mr & Mrs Griffith D Ellis (nee Edith Heath) a son (Douglas Owen). (Winnipeg papers, please copy).
Nanafos
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Charles Heath Jnr is on the 1881 census at Harborne, Staffordshire, RG11/2958, Folio: 36, Page: 15. His name is listed as Chas Heath, age 12 born New Plymouth, New Zealand.
Edith Heath is on the 1881 census at St Mary Islington, London, RG11/279, Folio: 25, Page: 10. She is listed as Edie Heath age 11, born New Zealand.
Nanafos
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Thanks Nanfos for the last 2 messages. I'm up to date on all that. Charles went from that school to the private school in Derbyshire, Repton, in Jan 1882 till 1887 where the Forman family of the Heath line were. He left for Prince Edward Is, Canada soon after that and Edith followed to Canada after she had completed her training in London as a Nurse. The 1881 c has her with the Lodge family in Staffordshire.
Ancestry.com has a Family Tree for Charles Heath (with errors!) and that is where a few years ago I started to sort all this out!
I'm waiting to hear from a direct desc. in Australia now to tidy all this up. If an Ovenden bit comes up I'll contact you.
Cheers ;) ;) ;) Faith
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I have just found this thread via Google as I was searching for Moses Breach! He was the brother of my husband's g.g.grandmother, Hannah Breach who married Lot Miles. After he died she emigrated to NZ with her daughter, Agnes Selina and her brother Moses and his wife. I have picked up a lot of information reading all the messages but wondered if anybody knows where Moses' first wife, Hannah is buried and did they have any children? I recently got a copy of Agnes Selina's probate records and it showed she had a cousin living in the Auckland area c. 1940 called May Harvey and I am now trying to figure out where she fits into the picture! Hannah remarried in NZ to Henry Lloyd who lived at Silverdale and they had four sons, one of them was Trevor Lloyd who was an artist. I would also be glad to know more about Augustus or Samuel Augustus Breach is anyone has any information.
Thanks, Kernow
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Hello Kernow
Well well, it's amazing what/who turns up! Others will be replying to you I'm sure as well. I'm the one who started all this off!! And people have been so helpful and I am eternally grateful!
Are you in New Zealand and do you have the NZSOG disc? It has details of Samuel Breach on it in Taranaki. It also has Moses's drama with the New Plymouth Presb. Church on it. Also there are Newspaper links from Paperspast which refer to the Breach family. I can put you in touch with a Manaia, Taranaki, Samuel Breach contact as well but I'm out all day now, so browse this Breach part of this site and I'll get back to you.
Cheers- Faith Green
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Hi Kernow
Hannah Breach died on 21 February 1869, buried on 24 Feb at Symonds Street Cemetery, Auckland New Zealand. Death notice can be found on 24 Feb in Daily Southern Cross newspaper on Papers Past. Maybe Google the cemetery & it should come up & you could get those details, it gives her age as 50. I don't know if they had children, he had 3 children in his second marriage which occured on 15 October 1870 to Elizabeth Jane Heath/Ovenden nee Batten.
Nanafos
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Thanks Faith and Nanafos,
No, I don't live in NZ, I'm doing a bit of long distance research from Cornwall, UK. I do not have access to the NZSOG discs either but they sound worth getting. I have found the Papers Past site invaluable, especially for finding out about the Rev. Moses Breach! It has been quite entertaining reading about him but he couldn't have been very easy to live with!
Somehow, I managed to miss the death notice for Hannah Breach so was grateful for that information. I have now found her in the paper and in the Symonds Street Cemetery where her sister-in-law Hannah Lloyd is also buried but she is registered there as Anne Lloyd.
Faith, it would be great if you could put me in touch with someone who can tell me a bit more about Samuel Breach's branch of the family.
Thanks again to both of you for all your help.
Kernow
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Hi Kernow- The NZ Disc is only available to NZ Soc of Genealogist members, not even to Libraries etc. I've had a look at it and find Sam A Breach, settler, Opunake, Taranaki, d 7 Sept 1915. Probate in Wellington. He had married Martha Morgan in 1874, she d the same year as him 9 June 1915. Sorry, it was a Moses Breach contact I had-my mistake! I think The N Z Gazette is on line and it has Samuel's J P appointments. A May Harvey d 22 Feb 1980 96yrs, at Caughey Rest Home Auckland. She was cremated and bd. Purewa Cemetery which I think may be on line. Did Agnes S Miles marry again? One married a Jones in in 1874 and then a Miles/Jones marr a McCathie - 1926 all in Papatoetoe, Auckland. Set me straight on all this and I may find a link to May Harvey somewhere. There were quite a few May Harveys.Running out of space!! Faith ::) ::)
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Hello Faith,
Thanks for the information from the discs. Through this I have now found all the burials online. Agnes Selina first married Charles William Jones at her step-father's house, the Wade. Shortly afterwards she and her husband left New Zealand and settled in Footscray. Charles William died in 1886 leaving several children. I had been searching for the death of Agnes Selina Jones for years but discovered just recently that she went back to New Zealand and married again. Her second husband was William McCathie and the marriage took place at her half brother Trevor's home, 9 Burgess Road, Devonport. William died 1932 I think and Agnes died 1940. Both of them are buried at Papatoetoe. I sent for a copy of her Probate papers and discovered that she did not mention any of her children or grandchildren from her first marriage. She left a small amounto of money to her step-grandchildren and the rest to her step-daughter, Margaret. Margaret had to sign a document that included the information that May Harvey, married woman, a cousin of the said deceased, believed that Agnes Selina McCathie deceased was born in Wiltshire, England... To know this I thought May must be a child of the Rev. Mr. Breach but after reading all the messages on this site, I now know she couldn't have been unless his first wife had children but none seem to be mentioned anywhere. So, the connection must be through Samuel Augustus. Perhaps it might be worth getting his Probate papers as well.
Thanks again for all the information you have sent.
Regards, Hilary
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Bingo, Hilary, glad a bit of data could help. But the Harvey name has been on my mind all day as being familiar and while sorting weeds and freezias the penny dropped. I shot inside, looked at data sent to me when I started out on all this Breach business and this may help you too. Back in Wiltshire, Bromham, a Mary Breach's parents, Sarah(Gee) and Henry died circa 1862. She came to NZ to live with her uncle Ignatious Gee, married James Harvey, lived at Waipipi, Waiuku (slightly SW of Auckland)and died in 1966 without issue. The May Harvey could be connected to a bro-in-law? I have a handdrawn/typed family tree from this Gee desc.& the Henry Br. appears to be a bro of Hannah, Moses, Sam. She sent me photos of Mary, her mother Sarah Gee, Henry, Moses the elder b. 1803. Where do you fit in? Send me a personal message/email & I'll scan them to you.(Hit our name &follow the page to the bottom.) Cheers Faith
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I have only just discovered this discussion while working on research for Agnes Selina MILES and the BREACH connection. My husband is a direct descendant of the youngest of Agnes' 8 children, Charles William Evelyn JONES who was born on the day that his father died (9 Mar 1886) and was given his full name. Do you need any further information or pictures of Agnes during her Australian time?
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Hi Riverdoll - yes I would appreciate just a brief outline of Agnes Selina's Jones's desc. I did hear from Kernow from Cornwall, Eng., and her husband is a g grandson of Agnes. He married Henrietta White while in Eng.with the AIF in WW1, she died soon after the birth of the daughter and a sis-in-law brought up the baby...... There is evidently a lot more to all this which she didn't pass on to me so send her a personal reply (hit her name on my Rootschat data) and you may get it all. Perhaps you know all this. I have a Bromham, Wilts. Eng. Breach Family Tree and some photos of various Moses B's and Gee's from there if you would like them. I would be pleased to have a photo of Moses B who came to NZ his sister Hannah Miles and Agnes. Send me a personal messge with your email contact so I can do that. My Eliz Jane Batten/Ovenden married Moses in NZ, an unhappy marriage in the end and I would like to find where she died ? drowned. Glad you made contact. Amazing how connections keep on turning up!! :) :) :)
Faith Green
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Agnes Selina Miles married Charles William Evelyn JONES 31 December 1874 in New Zealand. We have not been able to find out exactly when they moved to Footscray, a suburb of Melbourne, Victoria. Their children (some born in NZ) were:
Edith Evelane JONES (known as Evie) who married George MILLER
Charles Frederick Palmer JONES (known as Fred) who remained a bachelor
Agnes Helen JONES - an infant death
Walter Trevor JONES who married Elizabeth (unknown surname)
Life Hubert Henry JONES (known as Harry) who married Amy THOMAS
Isobel Georgina JONES - infant death
Arthur Francis Frederick JONES who went to UK (he married Elizabeth Temperance Amelia WARD
Charles William Evelyn JONES (Jnr) who married Eva May ELLIOTT
Charles WE Jones (Snr) died on the same day as his last son was born.
Agnes Selina MILES/JONES brought up another child William (Bill) JONES whose history is not known. He married Annie Matilda Catherine WARD (a sister to Elizabeth WARD).
Some time after her youngest child married, Agnes Selina went back to New Zealand (escorted by her bachelor eldest son Frederick) to marry William McCATHIE.
I hope that helps. I will follow up your suggestions. Thanks. Lyn Clark
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Hello Riverdoll
Thank you so much for the data and the wonderful photo. Contact me if you would like further help after making contact with Kernow in Cornwall.
Faith
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Pure coincedence, my name is Samuel Breach and my sister is Hannah Breach!