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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: madeinireland1961 on Tuesday 13 January 09 21:21 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I'm new to this board and I'm hoping someone can help with a problem.
I've managed to trace my family history to 1872 when Patrick McQuitty was born to Robert McQuitty and Susanna (previously McKeown). He was born on 23/9/1872 at 15 Park Street in Belfast
I was hoping to go further but since then I've hit a blank. I presume the next stage is to find the marriage certificate of Robert and Susanna from sometime before 1872.
Can anyone help or guide me as to how I can proceed?
Thanks very much in anticipation...
Maurice (McQuitty) - Now living in Ipswich
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Maurice,
I cannot get back any further but a parent search on the IGI shows up:-
Arthur McQuitty b 12 Apr 1866
Patrick " b 23 Sep 1872
William Joseph b 16 May 1877
Mary b 26 Sep 1879
All were born to Robert and Susanna.
Regards
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Thats fantastic !!
I had no idea Patrick had brothers and a sister. Also I suppose it means I need to look before 1866 for a marriage certificate for Robert and Susanna.
As far as I know Susanna was a Catholic and Robert a protestant - There is a rumour that Robert belonged to a fairly wealthly protestant family in Belfast and fell in love with the Catholic maid (Susanne Mckeown) and as a result was disowned by the rest of his family - thats why my line are now so poor I suppose- :-)
Am I right in thinking that Catholic marriages before 1964 were not civil registrations ? If so that just gives me two years to search for a civil regististration 1864 - 1866 and if not there I have to trawl through parish church records. Can someone confirm if that is right ? and if so how do I go about doing that?- I notice that there are heaps of Catholic parishes in Belfast - Is there somewhere I can search online that holds the info ?
Thanks again...
Maurice
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Also I should have asked. Does anyone know what Parish Park Street is in ? Assuming they lived at or near that address I suppose it would be a good parish to start with.
Thanks...
Maurice
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1877 street directory on LennoxWylie website, gives Park Street, running from Carrick Hill to Stanhope Street, which I think would be Lower Shankill Road. That area has been redeveloped a long time ago.
Dixie
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Birth of Arthur McQuitty is in Emerald Ancestors
12 April 1868 (note year)
to Robert McQuitty and Susanna McKeown
Belfast no. 3 district
So - they may have married after 1864 - can't find the marriage yet.
RosemaryJoan
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This is probably their marriage but you will have to pay £4 to look at it
www.ancestryireland.com
Robert McQuitty, father George, 1863 ,Co. Antrim
Susanna McKeown, father James, 1863,Co. Antrim
These entries seem to cross reference and it is worth looking at one of them.
Good luck. RosemaryJoan
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The only George McQuitty to be found in Griffiths Valuation of Ireland was
1861
George McQuitty, Townland of Cubbindall, Parish of Ballymoney
leased +29 acres of land and a house and offices and also leased land to a Mark Buckly.
Quite a prosperous farmer I would say, so that would fit in with your story.
Let us know if that is the right marriage.
RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary,
Thanks very much for all your help. Sorry I've been slow to reply as I've been away from the PC for a couple of days.
I think I had already found that cross reference to 1863 on a different site - but after having paid the £5 or whatever it was (to have a look at the Robert marriage) I found it to be a marriage to someone else.
Is it worth looking at the Susanna one as well do you think ? If it was it why wouldn't they also have another reference to another Robert marriage in 1863 as well ?
I suspect the George McQuitty is the wrong one but I really appreciate your help. One bit of snipet I forgeot to mention is that I think the family were supposed to be well known for installing stain glassed windows in churches around Ireland - but I'm not sure how true that is.
Thanks...
Maurice
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I have had a long look at all the marriages in Emerald Ancestors and I have come to the conclusion that it was a Catholic marriage and not subject to civil registration. However, Arthur's birth is listed twice in AncestryIreland, and I bet one is the civil registration and the other the Catholic baptism. It would be worth looking at the one with no County listed first as I suspect that is the church baptism. If it is - it is more than likely that that is the church where Robert and Susanna married. Worth a try - that's what I would do. Then you might have to pay someone to look at the church records. RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary,
You are a star - I'm getting closer !!!
I checked both records...
On the first it was the civil registration - the one without the county name. It was still useful as it gave the occupation of Robert as a waiter - Belfast Urban No 3 and their address of 41 Alton Street. On this one the witness was Robert McQuitty (brother ? relative ? or were they allowed to be theit own witness ?)
On the second bingo - it was the Catholic registration. The Parish / District was given as ST PATRICK'S - In the Misc box it said - REV J MCWILLIAMS ce0 2 6 - whatever that means. The witnesses were James Hanlon and Catherine Lennon.
Both has the same birth date - but the baptism date was 19 April on the Catholic one and 21st April on the Civil one.
Where do I go from here ? Call up the Parish Church ?
I've paid for another search already if you think any others might be useful - Should I go for the Susanna McKeown one from 1863 ? I have already tried the Robert McQuitty one in 1863 and it was not the right one.
Thanks...
Maurice
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Maurice,
No, don't bother with that Susanna McKeown, as I have looked in Emerald Ancestors and that one married a George Clarke. Save your money until you have something else to look at on that site.
Yes, the father often registered his child's birth in Civil Registration, but in the Catholic baptism two other witnesses were required.
St. Patricks is in Donegall Street and according to my City map, is still there. Why don't you Google it? There might be an address to contact them. - Done it
St. Patrick's Presbytery, 199 Donegall St., Belfast BT1 2FL Tel: 02890324597
The baptism date on the Civil registration is actually the date the birth was registered - I was told that by Ancestry Ireland. Have you looked at Alton Street on www.lennonwylie.co.uk
Let us know how you do - I'm rivetted! RosemaryJoan
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Rosemary,
Sorry - no update. I meant to ring from work today but was so busy I couldn't - hopefully tomorrow.
Thanks...
Maurice
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Hi Rosemary,
I found after a further bit of searching that the St Paricks church records are on microfilm at PRONI. The references are MIC1D/66 and MIC1D/67. Unfortunately as I'm not in Northern Ireland till the summer I can't check them myself but I've sent an email to PRONI - no reply as yet.
Also I called up the Chrurch and they told me that the records were copied by the Ulster Historical Foundation - so they should be on www.AncestryIreland.com.
While I'm waiting for PRONI to respond I think I might take a potshot at some names just to see - but I can't think of any reasons why only a record with Roberts name is there and not Susanna's and I've already checked the Robert record in 1863 which has a matching Susanna name. There are a couple of others for Robert in 1867 and 1861 - as I have one credit left - I'll toss a coin..
Maurice
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Ah well - I blew it on Robert McQuitty 1861 - but it wasn't the one.
However after I'd done that I found another Robert McQuitty in 1861 with a matching Susan McKeown in 1861 (not susanna but just perhaps). The only thing is it was in County Down not Antrim ???
What the chance then.
1. Incorrect or shortened name
2. Different County.
Your supposed to marry in the home town of the lady aren't you ? Maybe he married there and then moved back to Belfast having a first child in 1868 - baptised in St Patricks. If the story is true and he ran away with the maid maybe he ran away initially from where the main family lived - particularily if he changed religon. Then again maybe he started somewhere else and ran away to Belfast after he got married ???
If anyone else has any good ideas please feel free to let me know.
Thanks...
Maurice
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Part of Belfast is in Co. Down, so don't be put off by that. 'The other side of the Lagan' is in Co. Down, so perhaps Susan was from 'the other side of the river' and they married in her church.
I have scoured Emerald Ancestors and there are no matching Susan McKeown and Robert McQuitty records there, and looking at AncestryIreland records, that COULD be the record. No fathers names given. I have found that this is sometimes the case with R.C. marriages, so I would go for it, but go for the Susan McKeown one as it seems to be the only one in 1861. Susan and Susannah are often interchangeable - I have that in my tree. If you are like me, you HAVE to know now. I shudder to think how much money I have blown on records. But then, I don't smoke or drink or go out with boys!
RosemaryJoan
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Bingo.
I looked up the one for Susan McKeown in Co Down in 1861 and yes she married a Robert McQuitty on 9th April at St Matthew's Roman Catholic Church in Knockbreda, Holywood - Co Down.
However it does not seem to help much - apart from naming the Church - no Mother and Father given for either of the two of them............aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrhhhhhhhhh - this is so frustrating !!!
So if I hope to go any further then I think I may be stumped. Although it occurs to me that if he changed religon then surely he would have been baptised before they married him ???
Here we go again.....Can anyone offer any suggestion on where to go next to continue my search?
The other thing that is bothering me is - They had four kids - all apart from their son Patrick - whom I am desendant from - seem to have disappeared without trace apart from their birth registrations ??? What happed to William Joseph, Mary and Arthur - no marriage, no death certificate - can find no trace of emmigrating or going off to the Boer War ??? - I can't think of anything else.
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Rosemary,
You have mentioned Emerald Ancestors in previous posts - I am assuming you have membership access ?
Are you able to look up the death of Robert McQuitty in 1908. It's shown as Antrim / Down.
Just a hunch.
Thanks...
Maurice
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The vast majority of Emerald Ancestor deaths are from the will indexes and more information is available free from the same source on PRONI website. Click on Will Calender Search and try the name.
http://www.proni.gov.uk/index/search_the_archives/will_calendars/wills_search.htm
Here are the results for your Robert:-
Forename: Robert
Surname: McQuitty
Date Of Death: 06/04/1908
Date Of Grant: 24/06/1908
Effects: Effects £846 14s. 10d.
Registry: Belfast
Full Abstract:
Probate of the Will of Robert McQuitty late of 29 Jocelyn Avenue Belfast Gentleman who died 6 April 1908 granted at Belfast to Alexander Crawford and Harper Crawford Rent Agents.
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Thanks - I'm not sure that it really gives me anything more in my search - but I appreciate you taking the effort to look it up for me.
Cheers...
Maurice
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I bet that marriage is theirs. I don't know much about mixed denomination marriages and whether he would HAVE to be baptised before the event. As I said, that church was probably only across the river and she may have come from that Parish.
As for the will, they are supposed to be coming online soon, but I have had wills photocopied by PRONI and posted to me. I sent a request on their Contact email address and asked them to send me an invoice. They did that, with a reference number on it, I sent them a cheque and bingo. Maybe someone on this site knows when the wills are coming online. You should be able to find them on the 1901 census if we can find their address in that year. Onwards. RosemaryJoan
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What was the name of the priest?? Who were the witnesses?? at that marriage. St. Matthew Catholic Street is in Bryson Street, Belfast, but just across the river in Co. Down. They have a website which tells us that their records are all with AncestryIreland and that there were no fathers names in the early records, just witnesses. Did the priest write anything in the notes at the bottom of the page? There were McKeowns living there in 1861. See LennonWylie Street Directory for Ballymacarret Village. Also the death of Robert McQuitty was not a will entry. It was a death record in Belfast City. Look at deaths in AncestryIreland. RosemaryJoan
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The record is pretty rubbish to be honest. There is not even a name for the priest. The witnesses were ANTHONY MCONAGHY and MARGARET MCONAGHY.
Yes I think that is probably their marriage - not too far over the river.
I looked up the Church but they appear to be not doing searches until sometime in the new year due to renovations - although it does say the records are with Ancestry Ireland. I bet that record is not complete there must be more - even if it is only the name of the priest. Maybe the record was not very readable.
In the comments it has "ce 1 0 0" - thats it !!
I suppose if I found the local graveyard then they both might just be buried there and that might have more information. I'm guessing that Robert was probably born around 1840.
A few loose ends to tie up there...
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Where can you lookup census information from 1901 - I only seem to be able to find 1911 ?
Thanks...
Maurice
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Maurice - I am sending you a Private Message. RosemaryJoan