RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: runlee on Tuesday 13 January 09 13:52 GMT (UK)
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This question was posed by my daughter at Christmas! My husband and I lived in various locations, mainly overseas, most of our adult lives. Hence the question. Whislt we both still have family living in the UK neither of us feels that we 'belong' to either Parish, but don't want to end up being buried/cremated overseas. Despite us never having discussed this beforehand, we both said that we would probably like to end up in the place we got married - Wimbotsham, Norfolk.
My daughter also added that we would be a family historian's nightmare family having lived in Germany, Cyprus, UK, Germany, India, UK, Belgium, Germany, Belgium - in that order. Perhaps it's a good job it's all been recorded!
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We have pondered this question too! I have decided that the medical profession can take what they want then burn the rest. My ashes can then be scattered somewhere lovely like Snowdonia or the Lake District
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I was under the impression that you cannot simply put ashes where you wish, I thought you needed some sort of permission. I know that some people would say 'oh we would do it on the sly' but there are good reasons for these laws.
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My dad sadly passed away 9 years ago and his ashes are scattered on the 13th tee at Saltburn Golf Club, his second home, the funeral director said that many a golfer gets wheeled around the course, so to speak :) that's the last round he/she will have
I once asked my husband what his wishes were, his reply I don't care I'll be dead ::)
Jane
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My OH has asked me what I want done (who says I am going first). My answer "Surprise me" ;D ;D.
One other thing when I go don't expect me slip away quietly I love this life so much I am determined to go kicking and screaming.
Chris
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It's a good question and one which many people are afraid to ask. We too have moved around the country with work and wondered where our children would 'put' us when we die. We now use an online facility called Your Wishes in a Nutshell where we have all the things we want to happen when we pop our clogs, or even if we get so ill we can't look after ourselves. It gives us peace of mind that it's recorded for our family to know and also our children, they know exactly what we want and won't have to argue over it (as unfortunately so many families do) or wonder if they're doing teh right thing, when the inevitable happens.
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It's possible to make your own arrangements, of course. My parents did this, buying a plot in the local cemetery and making all necessary arrangements with a particular funeral director. Now my two aged aunts (both childless) have done the same. One is now away with the fairies in a nursing home, but the arrangements had previously been made - she wants to be cremated and have her ashes placed in her parents' grave. The other frequently reminds me that her plot is paid for and all the arrangements are with the funeral director - I will have no difficult decisions to make when she pops her clogs.
This is a great gift that one can give one's younger relatives. I intend to follow family tradition and make my arrangements so that no-one will need to worry when I go!
MarieC
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I was under the impression that you cannot simply put ashes where you wish, I thought you needed some sort of permission. I know that some people would say 'oh we would do it on the sly' but there are good reasons for these laws.
I wonder what they could be, these good reasons. There seem to be lots of laws made these days for very flimsy reasons.
There has been a thread about it
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,310943.0.html
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A very good topic !!!
We are getting of an age where this could be one of the biggest favours we could do for our children. The only problem is we don't want to be buried where we are living..and at this point don't know where we want to be.
My father was cremated and my mother wanted to keep his urn with her while she was living.....the nursing home thought it terribly strange....so we just reminded them that residences were allowed to have personal possession. When my mother died we had her cremated and put the two of them.......we actually bought a new urn and mixed them together as they would have loved that and buried them in the same plot where my brother who had passed away 20 some years before. I am sure they would all have been very happy with what we did with them.
So that may be our instructions to our girls....you have to drag us around with you until you put down permanent roots somewhere and bury us there..............I can hear their groans right now.
;D ;D
dollylee
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My mum and her sisters scattered both her parents at the top of Dollywaggon Pike in the Lake District as that was my grandfathers favourite walk, as far as I know they didn't ask any permissions. My brother had lunch with them when he was up there at New Year :)
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My mother had everything planned, down to the hymns to be used in the funeral service, even which particular tune for each hymn, and had arranged for her ashes to be buried with my father's. Each close family member was allotted a specific role at the funeral. It was all written down and she quite enjoyed going through her plans with us.
On the other hand, when my uncle died in his late 80s and we asked his wife what kind of a funeral she wanted for him, she said, "I don't know. We never discussed it." We just had to go ahead with what we thought was best.
Gillg
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We scattered my parents-in-law's ashes in the sea off Kimmeridge Bay in Dorset. We knew that was what they wanted, - my father-in-law had been stationed there during WW2, & they had often visited there, holidayed there, etc...
In the event, he died 8yrs before her...but we kept his ashes in the garage during that time...so that we could scatter them together!!
Romilly :)
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I'd like my ashes scattered on Santorini. Then the family can have a holiday too. However I think it would be too difficult so they can just chuck me on the flowers in the local crematorium. I'm sure the family will have something better to do with any money left.
A neighbour of mine always buys a plant or shrub to put in her garden to remind her of anyone who has died, even the dogs. That might be a good suggestion. My Aunt bought a Rose bush called cheeky to remind her of her husband. I'll have to find which plant I want
Sylviaann
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Years ago, I was discussing this subject with a couple of friends and we came to the conclusion that we need to have a sort of large pepper pot, with several properly divided layers. That way, we can have bits of ourselves scattered in a selection of favourite places.
Like a couple of others on the thread so far, I shall be, partly at least, in the Lake District - by the little tarn between the summits of Allen Crags and Glaramara. Other sections to be emptied at Rhu, near Arisaig on the North West Coast of Scotland, Bedoin in the Vaucluse region of France, Lochranza, Isle of Arran and maybe just a sprinkling in Wilton Churchyard for family solidarity.
Jen
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It's a good question and one which many people are afraid to ask.
I must say that I was quite pleased when my daughter brought up the subject. I think it's quite important to be able to talk about death, after all, it's inevitable. My mother has made all her own arrangements - choice of coffin, hymns, readings etc and she has it already paid for! I have been happy to discuss things with her as I know it gives her some peace of mind, my brother on the otherhand refuses point blank even to be in the room if the subject crops up. My husband already knew that I want to be buried (he wants to be cremated). He also knows that whilst the medics can have what they like from me beforehand, they are NOT to take my eyes! I know, I know, I'll be dead, but...
Just in case my OH is not around when the time comes, having now discussed it, at least my daughter now knows as well!
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I've thought about having my husband made into a diamond (assuming he dies before me).
I can be burned and scattered somewhere.
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Actually, - for myself I'm quite taken with the idea of a 'green burial'.
See:
http://www.globalideasbank.org/greenburial.html
Romilly ;D
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I thought about a green burial but how much does it cost?
I've written some notes and left them with my will.
I want the cheapest coffin possible.
I want a non religious ceremony
Make it as cheap as possible
Don't wear black
Read this part of Joyce Grenfell poem
Break not a flower, nor inscribe a stone,
Nor, when I’m gone, speak in a Sunday voice,
But be the usual selves That I have known.
Weep if you must:
Parting is hell,
But life goes on
So...sing as well!”
Play Karen Carpenter "Sing a song"
Sylviaann
Oh and save all the family history somewhere for someone to read.
Send a CD copy to all people on my list
Sylviaann
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I thought about a green burial but how much does it cost?
Sylviaann
It says on the Link that I posted I think. Cardboard coffins are about £55 I believe, - & of course you can decorate them as you please!
Romilly ;D ;D
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It looks as though it's not just the cost of a coffin
from http://www.globalideasbank.org/w2go/WTG-4.HTML
The cost of a basic funeral
'A basic funeral now costs from £318.50 to £890, with an average cost of £585'
The New Natural Death Handbook survey found that a basic funeral now costs from £318.50 to £890, with an average of £585 - an increase of 10.4 per cent on the £530 figure for 1996. (Funeral directors are often not very keen to tell the public about their low end funerals. As a member of the public, you may have to use the magic words 'basic funeral as specified in your funeral code' to be told this low, low price. There will be no frills - no embalming and just a hearse without a following limousine.)
To this £585, which represents the funeral director's charges, need to be added the so-called 'disbursements' paid out on behalf of the client by the funeral director: the cremation fee (averaging £223), doctors' fees (£82) and minister's fee (normally £68), an average extra total for disbursements of £373 (assuming it is a cremation; burial in a Church of England churchyard, for instance, costs £119).
Thus the average complete cost for a basic funeral is currently £958.
digging and buying a burial plot - average cost £524 - from same source.
So all the extras and fees mount up quite considerably.
I'm with Sylviaann on the arrangements, though.
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A green burial that I attended recently near Bristol had a coffin woven out of willow (I think). The coffin was taken from the chapel to the grave by horse and cart. Green graves have to be dug much deeper than a conventional grave for reasons that you might not want to think about, so look away now if you are squeamish. The coffin deteriorates very quickly, leaving the body exposed, so it needs to be well below the gound in case it should surface over the years. :o
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I wonder if you can be buried in your own garden, - is there any law against it?
Romilly ;D
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It's clinical waste so you have to be careful
This is an interesting site http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/gardenburial.html
I back on to an ancient graveyard and there is a baby with my surname buried against the wall of my garden. They could chuck my ashes over the wall!
Sylviaann
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I was under the impression that you cannot simply put ashes where you wish, I thought you needed some sort of permission. I know that some people would say 'oh we would do it on the sly' but there are good reasons for these laws.
In some areas, like the top of Snowdon, the flora is being affected by the amount of ashes spread. They change the composition of the soil and some rare plants are being affected.
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In 'New Tricks' Jack has his wife Mary in the garden.
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In 'New Tricks' Jack has his wife Mary in the garden.
Pssssssst.... He's not real - it's a story. :)
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;D ;D
LOL but surely they wouldn't have something like that if it was against the law?
but if you wanted to move who would buy a house with the previous owner buried in the garden? :o
Would you dig them up and take them with you?? :-X
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I'm not digging my cats up if I move! ;D ;D ;D
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I thought about a green burial but how much does it cost?
I've written some notes and left them with my will.
I want the cheapest coffin possible.
I want a non religious ceremony
Make it as cheap as possible
Don't wear black
Read this part of Joyce Grenfell poem
Break not a flower, nor inscribe a stone,
Nor, when I’m gone, speak in a Sunday voice,
But be the usual selves That I have known.
Weep if you must:
Parting is hell,
But life goes on
So...sing as well!”
Play Karen Carpenter "Sing a song"
Sylviaann
Oh and save all the family history somewhere for someone to read.
Send a CD copy to all people on my list
Sylviaann
I've decided on "Highway to hell" for my funeral music. Preferably as the coffin starts moving off behind the curtains! ;D
Andrew
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I've decided on "Highway to hell" for my funeral music. Preferably as the coffin starts moving off behind the curtains! ;D
Andrew
Apparantly 'Queens,' 'Another one bites the dust' is popular at funerals.
Romilly ;)
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I'd want a completely non religious ceremony, that much I'm sure of.
As to where I'd like to be scattered... I think maybe on the banks of the river Acheron in Greece. It's one of the most beautiful places I've ever been to, and reminds me of the best family holiday.
Although I have a feeling in Greek mythology it was the entrance to the underworld, how appropriate. ;)
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I've decided on "Highway to hell" for my funeral music. Preferably as the coffin starts moving off behind the curtains! ;D
Andrew
My aunt wanted that played at her funeral but the funeral directors refused & she couldn't find a crematorium that would allow it either.
Vic
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The Australian folk song isn't a bad one:
"Wrap me up with my stockwhip and blanket,
And bury me deep down below,
Where the dingoes and crows can't molest me
In the land where the coolibahs grow"
There are many versions and not all Australian:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_ballad
And for the music many sites including:
http://www.musicaustralia.org/temp/1000000000022389-13799.asx
(a small extract sung by a New Zealander with an American accent ...)
Personally I'd think absolutely no ceremony, and whatever's done with the remains should not disturb the environment ...
And if any part of me is useful as a spare part for anyone else, please use it - though I'm probably too old for that!
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In some areas, like the top of Snowdon, the flora is being affected by the amount of ashes spread. They change the composition of the soil and some rare plants are being affected.
It's also apparently becoming a major problem on Ben Nevis
http://www.nevispartnership.co.uk/ashes.asp
http://www.rootschat.com/links/05an/
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One of my close friends had Buddy Holly's "That'll Be the Day". Another went out to Edith Piaff, Je Ne Regrette Rien, with the entire congregation waving and joining in with the song.
A fairly common final song in the English folk world is John Tams' "Rolling Home". It's not to do with dying but it's a great chorus song about the working classes and always gets a huge volume of sound from the assembled company. It will be one of mine. :)
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A friend of mine went out to John Lennon's "Imagine" (his choice).
A good choice for a non-religious scientist who was a deeply committed environmentalist and humanist.
JAP
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Of course there is "Always look on the bright side" That should make them smile.
I did wonder about Imagine
Sylviaann
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Unfortunately I had to go to a funeral last week, - but it was actually a brilliant (civil) ceremony, carried out by a Civil Celebrant.
I gather that there is a Directory of Civil Celebrants on the www.
Romilly.
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In 'New Tricks' Jack has his wife Mary in the garden.
I thought it was just her ashes, buried in the centre of the plot.
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When I die, I will be chucked in the family plot which I bought the burial rights to. It was last opened in 1934 when my great grandmother died. Seems most appropriate given my hobby. :)
With regard to funeral - I'm not sure if I want one. People I don't like might turn up, and I'd be powerless to stop them. I'll be damned if they are getting free sandwiches and sausage rolls on my tab! I'm not religious, so the whole funeral thing would be a waste of time and money. Plus, not many people would show up (bar those people I don't like who are after a free sausage roll).
I'm a miserable cheapskate in life, and so will be in death.
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Of course there is "Always look on the bright side" That should make them smile.
Sylviaann
I've heard this to end a funeral. :)
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My Mums husband died 3 yrs ago and he was a carpenter (fully apprenticed etc) and he was cremated. He made my mum promise not to burn good wood, it would be sacrilage he said. So she did as she was told, he went in an MDF coffin that cost £10. The undertakers were very understanding and understood completely. I didnt know at that particular time that they didnt actually burn the coffin, it was taken back to the undertakers and reused!
On a different note my kids know what I want. They are going to cremate me to Dead or alives 'Spirit in the Sky' LOUD, then party to Cher's 'Taxi Taxi' again LOUD. I am then going to sit on my daughters mantlepiece and rattle everytime I want some attention. My 2 sons and my daughter are ok with this. But if they feel they need to 'lose' me somewhere then I am ok with that also, I'll be dead!!!
Life is for living and for digging about in archives. So just for the record, WRITE IT ALL DOWN. MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE FUTURE GENERATION TO PICK UP WHERE YOU LEFT OFF. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Tracie x x x x
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I heard of someone whose rellies scattered them on a cornfield. The following year they went back and picked some of the corn and made a flower arrangement sort of thing...
My grandad died last month. The undertakers will keep his ashes until we are ready to scatter him (which will be after my granny goes, so that they can be together). It'll be somewhere they liked to go for a walk, but ought I to ask the landowners permission?
My cat also went last month. His ashes are in a box on my oh's desk. We are going to buy a very large pot and plant a rose on top of him (mobile, in case we ever move).
Personally, I don't care what happens to me, whatever makes those I've left behind happier. I've seen a few rellies scattered in gardens of rembrance, but I find that really depressing and was glad Grandad didn't leave instructions about his ashes, although he had organised and paid for his funeral.
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My hubby loves to vacuum,......hover to some.... he and his vacuum drive me crazy. I have told him if he goes first I will put him in an urn on the mantel and dump him on the floor once a week and then vacuum him up. He actually thought this was funny and agreed if I promise to strap the urn to a golf cart and take him golfing once a week as well. :D :D :D
dollylee
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Since I started researching the family history, I found so much pleasure in finding my forebears final resting places, that I hate the thought of not having a "final resting place" that a g grandchild may find 100 years from now.
My folks had talked of having their ashes scattered, (nowhere in particular) so when my mother died, I asked my dad would it be ok to have a small memorial & he decided that might be nice & he would like to be there as well when his time came.
So my daughter knows her folks can go anywhere, as long as there is a permanent marker, which hopefully will be there for the next few generations. I like the thought of children running around looking at the names :)
Trish
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It's clinical waste so you have to be careful
This is an interesting site http://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/gardenburial.html
Sylviaann
Interesting human remains comes under pollution/clinical waste laws but pets don't. ( The garden is full of them back home, Cats, Gerbils, dogs )
My Gran's ashes were scatted in our garden back home under a Rose bush ( which is legal according to that site)
Myself, I'd like to be buried back home in Wales ( I too have spent nearly all of my adult life abroad in various countries, but I consider only one country to be home).
My hubby wants to be cremated and his ashes scatted out to sea off Gower, back home . I have told him I will not totally comply with his wishes.
If he goes before me I will bury half his ashes and have a gravestone for his child to visit, the other half can go into the sea off Gower . He won't know as he'll be dead, but the people grieving , left behind need something to visit.
Kind regards :)
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I agree with Trish and Cell. It's so deeply satisfying to find and visit ancestors' graves that I would hate to deprive subsequent generations of this experience. I travelled nearly 1000 kilometres in each direction to find and visit a remote bush grave, and the thrill was indescribable.
MarieC
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I had a friend who's husband was cremated and she said she was going to get her husband's ashes made into large and egg timer so that every time she passed it she could turn it over .I don't know if she ever did
As you know we lost our youngest son Alan in October and his wishes were to have his ashes scattered at sea from his fishing boat .We have not had very good weather here to do anything
We were discussing this the other night and our daughter in law said ,the children don't want him to go anywhere they want to keep their Dad at home
As we said it is up to them and if thats what they want its up to them
OH and I don't want cremated and the family know that
Elizabeth
Elizabeth
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Sorry there
It was his ashes that were to made into an egg timer not hers
Not with it this morning
Elizabeth
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Hi Elizabeth
As I said in my earlier post, it was my mother's wishes to keep dad with her while she was alive. It may sound strange to some but it was very comforting to her.
When she felt all alone she would give his urn (actually a cherrywood box) a pat and tell him how much she loved and missed him. It really helped her to have him close and available to talk to at any time. She would often sit and just talk to him about certain events in their lives, wish him a happy birthday or anniversary. It was an amazing way for her to get through her grief, she felt he was still close to her.
After she passed they were buried together with a permanent marker as I also believe there should be a permanent resting place and a place for all family to visit.
I can understand your son's childrens feelings, it is a way for them to ease through their grief.
I hope you are okay with it, as a mother I understand that that your grief must be enormous as well.
dollylee
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Dee,
My thoughts are like your's
A little joke with me and my Mother who had never flown in her life
When I first flew on holiday in 1973 my mother told everyone I was flying to Austria and in the village it was a big thing at the time
As more holidays came around she would say she's flying again
So now when we go up to the graves with flowers before we go on holiday ,I say Mam I'm flying again ,so I too still talk to my mother
Elizabeth
Elizabeth
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A poem written by my late noted scientist ex-b-i-l and now inscribed on his grave in a country town in Australia.
"AGAINST CREMATION
Indigestible in life, indeed obtuse,
prone to argument and even clashes,
my body, please, do not reduce
to an old tin of greasy ashes.
But take a measure less obscene:
throw my remnants in the earth,
let worms and microbes pick me clean,
angular, indigestible, as at birth."
His parents and grandparents are also buried there ...
JAP
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Really love that one, JAP!! ;D ;D ;D
MarieC
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When my uncle died, he was cremated and my aunt put his ashes in a large flower pot in the garden and planted a rose bush on top of him. She was quite content to keep him fed and watered, talking to him every day. I was not quite so happy when she asked me to repot him.
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JAP
Goodness - I have to say it sounds like Will Shakespeare's sonnet:-
"No longer mourn for me when I am dead"
I have always said to my family bury me - but sometimes I wonder if I should let them decide - they have to cope with it all afterwards-but as everyone has said it is important to discuss these things beforehand as you do put a burden on your family otherwise.
Hoping they play "Just My'Magination" for me
" A cosy little home with two children maybe three"
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JAP
Goodness - I have to say it sounds like Will Shakespeare's sonnet:-
"No longer mourn for me when I am dead"
I have always said to my family bury me - but sometimes I wonder if I should let them decide - they have to cope with it all afterwards-but as everyone has said it is important to discuss these things beforehand as you do put a burden on your family otherwise.
This is how I feel about it. I don't mind giving some guidance for what I'd like but it's the people who are left behind who will have to deal with the loss and I'd rather they did what gave them the most comfort.
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JAP
Goodness - I have to say it sounds like Will Shakespeare's sonnet:-
"No longer mourn for me when I am dead" ..
Hi cheshiremog,
Knowing the person (and I was very fond of him), I'd have to say that I'd interpret the message from his own poem as quite the reverse i.e. don't you rotters dare forget me!!! ::)
And I doubt that anyone who knew him ever will!!!
JAP
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OH (now 80 yrs young)was thinking about this question and at Christmas we discussed this with our daughter.
She is the only one of our three to live in UK.
She lives in a tiny Hamlet in Dorset and the Church is Ancient and churchyard nearly full for buriels, but the inhabitants can bury/scatter ashes in the grounds and on a wall small memorial plaques can be placed. And that applies to close relations who don't live in the village. So we have settled that, is where we will go.
As a side piece of info. the Church peal of bells is that which is used in "The Archers" Appropriate as we are all addicts!!
Spring
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When I die .I want to Be Buried In Toxteth Park Cem ..This is Where My Dad Mum Nan and Granddad Are Buried ..Also Quite a Few of Mine and My Hubby's Ancestor's Are (Sadly all in unmarked Graves :( )
Regards
Iria
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I rather favour the following ...... from an old traditional song;
"And when I die don't bury me at all,
Just pickle my bones in alcohol;
put a bottle o' booze at my head and feet
And then I know that I will keep."
joboy
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OH (now 80 yrs young)was thinking about this question and at Christmas we discussed this with our daughter.
She is the only one of our three to live in UK.
She lives in a tiny Hamlet in Dorset and the Church is Ancient and churchyard nearly full for buriels, but the inhabitants can bury/scatter ashes in the grounds and on a wall small memorial plaques can be placed. And that applies to close relations who don't live in the village. So we have settled that, is where we will go.
As a side piece of info. the Church peal of bells is that which is used in "The Archers" Appropriate as we are all addicts!!
Spring
I think this is a wonderful idea Spring - especially with mention of Dorset as one of my gg grandfathers who emigrated to Australia came from Dorset and some of the many cousins and siblings who remained are probably still in the county.
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What ever you all want make sure you write it down and that your family know where you keep your final wishes.
Because it really causes family fall outs and arguments.
Unless you fancy being exhumed that is. :o
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I said to my OH if you go first, to remind me of you I'll have a statuette made containing your ashes, but she said may prefer being sprinkled on an ornamental oak tree we planted recently.
Now hope I'm still here if this treasured tree eventually needs some TLC, as they live over 100 years. ;D
Midlanders