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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: treegirl on Monday 12 January 09 17:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Gypsy connections?
Post by: treegirl on Monday 12 January 09 17:19 GMT (UK)
Hi.

I am posting this on behalf of a distant relative in Canada.

Her great grandmother was Phoebe MERRIN born in Elston around 1850 and who married Robert JOHNSON and moved to Newark.

There is a family story that Phoebe had a gypsy heritage and that her parents spoke Romany around the house! Might be total fabrication but thought I would post on her behalf to see if anyone could give any pointers as to how to go about researching whether there were gypsies in the Merrin family....

Thank you in advance on her behalf :)

TreeGirl :)
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: suzard on Monday 12 January 09 17:54 GMT (UK)
Census when Phoebe is with Robert give her y.o.b. as 1864/5

so this is possibly her pre marriage
1861
Silthorpe notts
Charles Merrin head M 37 blacksmith emp 1 man Flintham Notts
Sarah wife 32 Elston Notts
Pheby daughter 7 elston Notts
jane daughter 5 Elston Notts
RG9 2483 6 6

no sign of Romany root at first glance

Wonder if it was Robert who had Romany origins???

Of course, it could just be Pheby's country dialect which sounded different!!!

Suz
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: suzard on Monday 12 January 09 18:11 GMT (UK)
May be worth asking on "Travelling people " board??

Referring to this post too -to save duplicate look ups

Suz
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: treegirl on Monday 12 January 09 18:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks for this Suzy.

I agree that it doesn't look likely from this and I did ask whether the link was through Ro bert - who hales from Cross Guns Yard, Newark! - but was told that it was definitely a Merrin link.

Will post on the other board too.

TreeGirl :)
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: suzard on Monday 12 January 09 20:28 GMT (UK)
1841 Charles Merrin is a blacksmith apprentice in same area

and Robert johnson looks like he was a postman for quite a number of years -no sign of travelling!!!


Hope you get help on other board

Suz
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: treegirl on Monday 12 January 09 20:36 GMT (UK)

1861
Silthorpe notts
Charles Merrin head M 37 blacksmith emp 1 man Flintham Notts
Sarah wife 32 Elston Notts
Pheby daughter 7 elston Notts
jane daughter 5 Elston Notts
RG9 2483 6 6



Are you able to look up the marriage of Charles and Sarah Merrin at all? Wonder if she's the link? No problem if you can't!

Thank you

TreeGirl :)
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 13 January 09 01:14 GMT (UK)
I did look but couldn't find anything

Suz
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 13 January 09 01:21 GMT (UK)
There is an extracted record on IGI
Charles Merrin
c 9 Apr 1824 Flintham Notts
parents William merrin/Sarah

there are a few entries for phoebe -but they are member submitted

Suz
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 13 January 09 01:26 GMT (UK)
Found it -merrin mistranscribed

FreeBMD
marriage
Dec qtr 1852
Newark
Charles merring
Sarah bell
7b 579

Suz
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: suzard on Tuesday 13 January 09 01:35 GMT (UK)
1851
Alverton Newark notts
George Williows Head M 35 Farm Bailiff Baroby Notts
Ann  wife 32 Grimsby lincs
George son 1
Sarah Bell servant 22 U gen serv Elston notts
Ho107 2138 69 6

Suz
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: larkspur on Wednesday 14 January 09 16:45 GMT (UK)
William Merrin and Sarah Summerfield were my 4x gt grandparents, I have Charles in my tree he was the brother of my 3x gt grandmother Hannah.
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: willmerr on Tuesday 27 January 09 13:08 GMT (UK)
Just found this and thought I can help.

I don't know the family tree (my mother's researching it though) but my name's William Merrin (it runs in the family) and I'm from Southwell in Nottinghamshire. My mother is Barbara and my grandmother was Evelyn Merrin, both from Southwell. I've been told by both my mum and grandmother that part of my family were gypsies. I don't know any more details but it's a long-standing family story which may offer some corroboration to what you asked.
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: treegirl on Tuesday 27 January 09 17:09 GMT (UK)
Thank you for replying - do you have any connections to the Merrins from Elston?

Perhaps Merrin is a traveller's name after all!

TreeGirl :)
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: babygirl101 on Tuesday 27 January 09 18:54 GMT (UK)
I've found a marriage for Phoebe Merring to Robert Johnson - 14th October 1877, St Marys Newark. They the following children:-

Ada, baptised 5th May 1878 at St Leonards, Newark, Roberts occupation was Postman. They were living at Tenter Buildings at that time which is where some of my rellies were also living. They definitely had gypsy connections, so it's possible that Phoebe also did, but it looks somewhat unlikley that Robert did??

Their 3 othr children were:-

Selina 17th April 1881  fathers occupation Letter carrier
Elizabeth Ann  & Robert Ernest both baptised 27th July 1884, fathers occupation Rural letter carrier. They were living at Bowbridge Lane Newark then.

Hope this helps

BG   :)


Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: treegirl on Wednesday 28 January 09 09:23 GMT (UK)
Thank you again babygirl -

Do you have any idea of how I can find out if Merrin is a traveller name or if there are any connections - there are some strong suggestions but nothing more concrete and I am wondering how I can find out any more. How did you find out you had gypsy connections?!

TreeGirl :)

ps our families seem to follow each other around a bit! First Cross Guns Yard ( where Robert JOHNSON was from ) and then Tenter Buildings!
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: babygirl101 on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:10 GMT (UK)
I've checked out some of the census returns, Notts FHS records and can't find a single clue as to a gypsy connection. I've looked at their occupations on baptism records to see if there's a clue there, but still nothing, Romanies quite often had more unusual occupations like basket makers, rag gatherers etc. 

I've also looked at some of the Romany sites and still nothing - really sorry I can't help. I'd love to know if you find a connection, as you say our families seem to be following each other

BG  :)
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: babygirl101 on Wednesday 28 January 09 13:15 GMT (UK)
Just a thought, have you tried asking on the Travellers section - Ann65 is an excellent source of info re Romanies, she knows most things in that subject - maybe she'd be able to offer some ideas for where else to look.

BG  :)
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: kellylesmith on Thursday 18 February 10 17:15 GMT (UK)
Hi.

I am posting this on behalf of a distant relative in Canada.

Her great grandmother was Phoebe MERRIN born in Elston around 1850 and who married Robert JOHNSON and moved to Newark.

There is a family story that Phoebe had a gypsy heritage and that her parents spoke Romany around the house! Might be total fabrication but thought I would post on her behalf to see if anyone could give any pointers as to how to go about researching whether there were gypsies in the Merrin family....


http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/gypsy.html
hello have you had a look at this website  also i have gypsy blood and it is known for a gypsy to be a blacksmith my grt grandfather was also its worth noteing that usually if someone says they have gypsy blood its unlikely to be untrue as it is not something everyone wants to admit to due to stigma attatched.johnson is a gypsy name .also if you have photos its worth seeing if they have dark eyes dark hair olive skin as romanys tend to .if i can help i will take care blessings x
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: greyingrey on Saturday 13 March 10 21:04 GMT (UK)
Sorry to butt in here, but I was wondering if anyone could direct me to any "gypsy sites" ? I've got a Robert Bradley & his wife Zillah, who had a baby in Northamptonshire in 1791. Can't find their wedding or Zillah's birth in Northamptonshire (there are several births of Robert Bradleys who might ....or might not.....be "my" Robert Bradley). I've been told that Zillah was a particularly popular name among Romanies & in Cornwall......a very, very, long shot, but you never know.....(don't know what Robert Bradley's occupation was)

Thanks
Title: Re: Gypsy connections?
Post by: greyingrey on Saturday 13 March 10 21:07 GMT (UK)
Oh, thanks for the above link, kelly......no Bradleys there....bit hopeless even if Zillah was a Romany if I don't know her surname