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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: omega 1 on Wednesday 07 January 09 10:19 GMT (UK)
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I will go round the HOUSES to get to my question.
While at Hastings Library yesterday,i was really lucky to find OHs 2xGreatgrandfathers Obituary.It was so informative.
Henry Mitchell died May 1908(have his death cert).
We knew Henry`s parents were Eastbourne people & his Mum`s dad was a Soldier.
The info states Henry`s mum was the daughter of a Scotch Soldier & born at The Wish Tower , Eastbourne.
We know she was baptised 18th Febuary 1787,at St Mary`s Church ,Eastbourne.
I was so excited finding Henry`s obituary,it clarified all my hard work of researching.
I have " Googled" the Wish Tower,Eastbourne & can only find it under a Martello Tower.
My question is,can this be right ?
Grateful to any opinions
Omega
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http://www.ukexpert.co.uk/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=890
http://www.francisfrith.com/search/england/east+sussex/eastbourne/photos/eastbourne_43945.htm
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Thank you Toni
I did find these but was`nt sure if that would have been where Jane was born.
Not far from where we live,so will be a visit when the weather warms up !!!!!!!!!!
Omega :)
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Could he have been a solider stationed there? although i am not sure wifes would be there if he was on duty ?
the army didn't take a very fond view to wives
its not far from where i live either :)
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When Jane`s parents married in 1782 (from SMI)Alexander Riddle was at the time at Hillsey,Southampton,in the Queens or Second Foot.
Ann Lower from Eastbourne,this is where they married.
Alexander is listed on Eastbourne Men at War census,1803,and states he was a Househusband.
It`s the info in between i dont know about.So i have no idea .
But like you,i find it strange for Jane to have been born there.
Omega.
PS,you find out one thing & it throws up more questions.
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Hi Omega
The other option is the Wish Tower Hotel, Eastbourne.
Kerry
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wives and kids (albeit needing the Colonel's permission) often followed their men..
Wellington was a bit heavy about it tho at the end of the Peninsular campaign ....
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This website gives some history to tower 73. http://www.martello-towers.co.uk/south-coast/towers/73.htm
Kerry
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It's unlikely that Jane was actually born in the tower itself as it wasn't built till 1804 I think. The bicentenary was 2004. http://www.martello-towers.co.uk/bicentenary/index.htm
Kerry
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Thank-you all for info.
Been reading up on the Towers so Jane could`nt have been in one.
Will see what i can find out regarding the Hotel.
Omega
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Loking at the assorted information the area is described as marsh when the Martello was built in 1804. The interesting thing is that even during construction it was called Wish Tower so perhaps there was a lookout post there before that. I don't think the hotel comes into the equation at all. Pete
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I've been thinking about this one all week and I have to agree with Petmas. I think the next step would be to find out where the name Wish Tower comes from? How long have soldiers been in Eastbourne and would there have been lookout towers before the martellos were built?
Kerry
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A website that might be able to help is that of the Royal Sussex regiment http://www.royalsussex.org.uk/RSLHG_main_index.html
Kerry
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Nothing in THe Times troop movements for that period, only mention is artillery at Crumbles which is the oposite end of town in 1804. If there was a tower an early Admiralty chart should show it. P
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when was the Wish Tower Hotel built
was it always a hotel
was it ever used to house service personnel
added
Grand Parade Eastbourne 1881 census
RG11; 1039; 114; beginning on page 14;
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Morning Toni
I think most of the hotels in Eastbourne were built in the Georgian period when its role as a seaside town for the middle and upper classes began and the coming of the railway. Around 1830s I guess. I tried to find a website about the history of the Wish tower hotel but had no luck.
Kerry
modified - just read an article I downloaded ages ago from the Journal of Contemporary History about seaside development in Sussex which suggests that the Georgian resorts were developed between 1740 and 1830.
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I have been making enquiries about Alexander (Soldier).
The Queen`s or 2nd Foot at that time was the Surrey Regiment.
I posted a letter to their Museum yesterday,so hopefully they may have some info about him.
Thank-you all
Omega :)
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Don't know for sure but reckon that area is 1870s devlopments , certainly not 1790s. On the Martello Tower site, there is an extract from the builders diary referring to it as Wishe Tower and there or elswhere on the site about it being marshlands so not really hotel area. P
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I will phone Eastbourne Library next week,see if they can help.
My NOSE wont rest until i find out :)
Omega
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Another place for us to visit when it opens in April is
The Redoubt & Military Museum.
We are beginning to wonder if Alexander changed Regiments.
Not very well up on this subject.
Omega
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The redoubt was started after the Martello. I think the old barracks were in the area bounded by the A259 /Summerdown Rd/ Vicarage Dr in old town. I am sure I remember a plaque saying it was the old barracks then workhouse
see
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=50.77133~0.262122&style=h&lvl=17&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7587148&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1
Just noticed on the Martello website it states the name Wish is a corruption of Wash as in marsh swamp and as in East Anglia.
Just realised it has Birds Eye view
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=sfvqn7h0nhxw&style=b&lvl=2&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=7587112&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1
it is the building dead centre with curved wall in brick and high flint wall at the RH end
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So the area could have been called Wish before the martello was even built, hence it being called Wish Tower!
Now we're rocking :) Be nice to confirm it though. There was a lot of marsh around Eastbourne - Pevensey Marshes etc so it more than likely.
Kerry
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I put into google
wish tower ground eastbourne.It`s seems to be where the Sovereign
Habour is.
The answer is somewhere.
Omega
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wish tower ground eastbourne.It`s seems to be where the Sovereign
Habour is.
Omega
Which in some ways would make sense as The Crumbles (Sov Harbour area) was a troop training area. One thing I noticed is that you refer to Hilsea Southampton it is in fact Portsmouth, and the other are you certain about 2nd Regt of Foot as although I can't find where they were in 1782 but not long after that they were a Maritime Regiment at sea Pete
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Hi Pete
I have The Sussex Marriage Index CD.
I highlighted the marriage,right clicked & a box came up.This is where
i got the info about Alexander Riddle coming from Hillsey ,Southampton & that he was in the Queens or 2nd Foot.
Omega
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Movements of 2nd Foot
1775 returned from Gibralter
1783 returned to Gibralter
1792 returned from Gibralter
2/1793 at Dover
1794-5 as Marines
1795-Nov 97 West Indies
1798 Ireland
1799 Helder Nederlands
1801 Egypt
1801-6 Gibralter
1806 Winchester
A second Battalion was formed in 1795 from the 1st and sent to Guernsey then to Sea, 1796 Martinique, disbanded 10/1797 and merged into 1st Bn .
I'm wondering if there is a typo in the records you found as there is a 2nd Sussex Volunteers , 2nd Surrey Militia & 2nd Regt of Foot Guards all around at that period
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Thank-you Pete
Hopefully a reply from the Musuem wont take long.
One Obituary has lead me to more questions.Still it keeps the little old grey cells busy.This is only part of it.Will leave other searching till i sort this out.
Omega :)
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Wish Tower Mound was formerly Beacon Hill according to Wards guide to Eastbourne, not dated but guessing 1925-30 Pete
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I found Old Wish Road yesterday near the Wish Tower on the maps that Petmas put up. I wonder if that was marshland once!
Kerry
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Hi Kerry & Pete
I will phone up Eastbourne Library on Tuesday.
Not thinking straight at the mo,woke up to cough & cold :(
Thank-you for your interest.
Omega
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There are two Martello towers in Eastbourne, the Wish Tower and the Redoubt. The Wish Tower is close to the beginning of the chalk cliffs on the west end of the seafront. The Redoubt is on the east end of the seafront, nearer to the Crumbles. Beyond the Crumbles you will come to the marshes (Pevensey area). The ground that the Wish Tower is on was not marshland, although there was marshland nearby, The following is form the website that kerry mentioned:
Known as 'The Wish Tower', No.73 is easily the most well-known (and documented) of all the south coast Martellos, its name coming from the 'wish', 'wash' or marshland nearby, fed by a stream known as Shomer Dyke. Twiss himself first referred to it as the "Whish Tower" or "Wish Tower" in some of his early progress reports.
A shingle bank separated the wish from the sea. Sited on a natural hill overlooking the surrounding marsh, the Wish Tower has been the subject of many prints and postcards of Eastbourne over the years. A house on the hill was demolished and the hill enlarged with the spoil excavated from the moat.
Mark
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Omega,
I'm not sure whether you have these of not, but the following are listed in burials for St Mary's, Eastbourne:
RIDDLE, Alex, 77, South Street. Buried Dec 18 1833
RIDDLE, Mary, 49, Wish. Buried May 10 1837
I'm not sure who Mary is, but it is interesting that she is listed as living at "Wish".
There are two books written by George Chambers that give some insight into the derivation of the name "Wish." The first is
HANDBOOK FOR EAST-BOURNE, PEVENSEY & HERSTMONCEUX CASTLES, "WILMINGTON PRIORY, MICHELHAM PRIORY, BEACHY HEAD, HAILSHAM, AND THE NEIGHBOURHOOD. ALPHABETICAL DIRECTORY OF PRIVATE RESIDENTS AND BOOK OF REFERENCE FOR EVERYBODY.
This is available through Google Books. The "Wish" is mentioned several times throughout the book but two mentions are worth showing here:
This word is said to be a corruption of "Wash," and to signify a "wet place." If so, it is very appropriate, for there are evident indications that at no very distant period there was an inlet of the sea here. Perhaps it ought to be said that there used to be "evident indications," for these are almost obliterated now in consequence of the equilisation of the levels here, brought about in connection with the Duke of Devonshire's building operations. There was formerly a stagnant rush-grown pool, which the late Mr. D. Gilbert thought might be the remains of a Roman navala, or wet dock, formed artificially by that enterprising people, a natural harbour being wanting. (Suss. Arch. Coll., is.., 156.) "At low water in front of the Wish, large piles are standing, which tradition ascribes for the support of a pier head in former times, to guard the ships which were at anchor in the Wish or harbour." (Sir W. Burrg/l.) The drain now to be seen here is not a sewer, but the inlet to the Baths.
A visitor writing to a local Newspaper in 1861, said:—"I venture to think that this supposition is a mistake, and that the ' Wish ' is probably a corruption of ' Gnichet,' a wicket or passage in the main entrance, and which bears allusion to Guiche, and finally corrupted to ' Wish/ Now, looking around the country, and seeing the number of villages, seats, &c., with Norman-French names, I think there can be no doubt of the origin of the 'Wish' being the Norman-French 'Guichet;' if so its name would harmonise better with the lovely scenery than the 'Wash.'"
The second book is: Eastbourne Memories Of The Victorian Period 1845 To 1901
And Some Other Things Of Interest, Divers. By George F Chambers F.R.A.S.
Published By V. T. Sumfield Station Street Eastbourne. Circa 1910
It is available at
http://www.sussexhistory.co.uk/eastbourne-memories/eastbourne-history.html
and through the Internet Archive (and also at openlibrary.org)
This book gives a description of the "Wish"
I do not know that it is worth while to say much about footpaths and narrow occupation roads now either discarded or swallowed up in modern roads, but from a point just opposite No. 8 The Terrace, the roadway, now a mere back road for the convenience of the houses at the back of Cornfield Terrace, once marked the line of the " Shomer Dyke," a drain draining the South Street houses and having its outlet near the Wish. Eventually the dyke (ditch) was filled in and the narrow road formed which still exists robbed of its Mid-Victorian name of " Shomerdyke Road." Previously to this The Wish was reached by a narrow road starting from South Street and following nearly or quite the line of what is now College Road. Here a branch to the E. led to the sea-shore near the Wish Tower, and a branch to the W. past some farm buildings known as " Hollands Barn " to " Prentice Street " and up to Meads.
There is also an illustration of the Wish Tower in 1840 that will give some idea of the surrounding area
http://www.sussexhistory.co.uk/eastbourne-memories/eastbourne-memories%20-%200031.htm
Regards
Mark
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Hi Mark
Thank-you for all the info,you certainly have been busy.
I have the CDs for St Mary`s burial`s & Baptisum`s.
Alexander & Ann had 3 daughters Jane,Joanna & Rebecca.
There was also a William & Mary Riddle ,their children Jane 1816,John 1824 & William1820.So i assume this is the Mary you found.
I will have to print everything off so i can digest it & will look for the books.
Thank-you again
Omega (with a thick head & cold)
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Hi
Been on the phone to Library,they are as puzzled about The Wish Tower.
Also a reply from the Museum .They kindly sent some info regarding Alexander but not the time period for Jane was born.
Think i will have to be patient & wait until the Museum in Eastbourne opens in April.
In the mean time will see if his Service Records have survived,have been given some contact addresses.
Omega
Omega
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The Yarkell and Gardener map (1778-1783) does not show a wish tower at this
date. http://www.envf.port.ac.uk/geo/research/historical/webmap/sussexmap/Yeakelllarge39.htm
The location would be south of the word "Bourn" on the coast.
Rod
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Thank-you Rod
What a lovely old Map.It will also help narrow down search.
Omega
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Hi All
We visited The Redoubt Fortress yesterday which we found very interesting.
I had a talk with the people regarding where Jane was born.
It seems there was a village in the area of Wish & this was the likely place Jane was born.
Going back to the Obituary,i assume descendants were`nt awhere of the area called Wish & only heard of The Wish Tower.
I mentioned i had had a lot of help from Rootschat & what a lovely lot you are :)
They gave my an e-mail addy to see if i can find anymore about Alexander .
Thank-you all for your help
Omega
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Omega
Great news and I hope you are able to find out more about Alexander.
Despite only living 8 miles from Eastbourne, I can't swear to the fact that I have ever been to the Redoubt or if I have, I don't remember much about it. One to visit I think.
Maybe by the time of the obituary the area had simply evolved from the Wish to the Wish Tower.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry
The Redoubt is really worth a visit.
We intend going again & taking 12year old Grandson,who has informed his Mum he wants to join the Army !!!!!!!!!!!,so he will find it interesting.
We went to visit St Marys Church where OHs Ancestors married.What a beautiful Church.
After reading this thread last night i realised we were only a stones throw from the Wish area.Will have to go back.
Will update if i find out more about Alexander.
Love to know what he looked like & wonder if he had red hair :D
Omega
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I guess it might help some of my research into local army ancestors, just a bit of background information would help I am sure.
I agree St Marys is beautiful.
Kerry
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Hi Kerry
Will send you e-mail addy ,mans name & works phone number in a PM,he maybe able to help.
Omega
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Re above. I live a couple of miles away & visited recently.
It is known as the Reboubt Fortress !
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Does anyone have any info of the children of Alexander Riddle & Ann Lower of Eastbourne--off children Jane, Joanne & Rebecca ?.....