RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: MaccaAddison on Tuesday 06 January 09 21:58 GMT (UK)
-
In 1871 There's a George Evans 11 mths living in Toddington with parents William and Mary Ann.
George Evans eventually married Alice Taylor (we have marriage certificate confirming William as George's father - married on 15/10/1842 George was 22, ALice 21).
We are convinced this is now the family but cannot trace backwards the family does not seem to show on previous census despite being born in Toddington.
Unless I have missed it.
Really need some help and everyone was very helpful before.
Thanks
Mark
-
Hi Mark
perhaps you were looking for William and he's listed as Willm
1861 census RG 9/1004 Folio 27 Page 14
Luton Street, Toddington, Bedfordshire
EVANS
Willm head 26 Agricultural Labourer
Mary A wife 25 Straw Plaiter
Sarah dau 5 Straw Plaiter
Elizth J " 3
David son 9months
all born Toddington
Barbara
:)
-
IGI has the marriage:
11 Nov 1855 Toddington, Bedford
William EVANS Father - Samuel EVANS Spouse - Mary Ann WEST
Freebmd gives them different refs for the marriage:
Dec Qu 1855 Woburn 3b 954 EVANS William
Dec Qu 1855 Woburn 3b 953 WEST Mary Ann
have checked the GRO scan it's correct, but on freebmd Willliam is the only person listed on page 954 but 5 people listed on page 953 (2 men & 3 women) so perhaps a mistake on the original
1851 census HO107/1755 Folio 350 Page 1
address: Fancy, Toddington
EVANS
Samuel 49 Agricultural Labourer
Mary 45 Lace Maker edit - born Eversholt Evershott
James 19 Agricultural Labourer
William 17 " "
Jane 14 Platter of Straw
George 7 " "
Joseph 4
Samuel and children all born Toddington
Barbara
-
Barbara
Thanks alot - you seem to know where to look. What is the IGI ?
You seem to confirm the 11/11/1855 as the wedding date then for William.
What is the Evershott - is that a place or maiden name of Mary.
How do I now go back to Samuel - it would appear he was born approx 1802. Is there census info back then.
What are the best reference sites.
Thanks for all your help.
Best regards
Mark
-
Hi Mark,
I wasn't sure how much you knew about family research, so didn't explain too much, did I? It might be worth your looking at the Beginners Boards on Rootschat for lots of information and hints on the best places to find your information
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,47.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,290.0.html
You can order the marriage certificate for William using the reference numbers I gave you. Dec Quarter 1855 Woburn 3b 954 EVANS William
Here's the link to the online GRO site for certificate ordering:
www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
The IGI is the International Geonealogical Index - for baptisms, marriage and other information collected by the Latter Day Saints Church from parish records and from members' family trees
http://www.familysearch.org
In 1851 census Eversholt in Bedfordshire (have edited my earlier Evershott!) was the place of birth of Mary, as I said below, all children and Samuel were born Toddington
The next step is the 1841 census, although you said you hadn't been able to find him, I will have a look. Then you need to find his marriage and baptism from parish records
Kind regards
Barbara
:)
-
You are a star Barbara.
Yes, you guessed it - I am a little new to this. Although I have had some successes.
I have found some information from a spreadsheet someone has prepared about criminal offenses in the area - there is a entry for 1829 - Samuel and Joseph Evans - 24 and 22 respectively. Charged with hard labour for rioting - presume in Toddington. There are a few with same charge in Toddington. Not sure if they are related but maybe some connection.
Not sure what was going on in 1829 in Toddington and what constitute a riot.
I am trying to build a picture up of the family and what they were up to - how did they get to Toddington and why did George (my grandfather's dad) move to Reading, Berkshire in late 1890 / early 1900.
I am so interested in this now.
lol
Regards
Mark
-
Hello All....
Hope you don't mind me skipping in ...
IGI also has this ...
James Evans bapt Toddington 2nd Oct 1831 father Samuel
mother Elizabeth.
William bapt 1834 father Samuel
mother Elizabeth
Jane bapt 1837 father Samuel
mother Betsey
George bapt 1844 father Samuel
mother Mary
Joseph bapt 1846 father Samuel
mother Mary.
Other children to Samuel & Elizabeth are Mary Ann b 1825
Joseph b 1828 died 1828......Sally 1829
There is a member submitted entry for a marriage ...
North Crawley 1823 18 Aug
Samuel Evans ( of Toddington) to
Elizabeth Robinson.
North Crawley PR would need to be checked for that one ...and I am aiming to do some look ups in the next few days so will add that one.
2nd marriage gives us ...
Toddington 1843 29 Jan Samuel Evans father Joseph
to Mary Odell father John.
Mary Odell bap Eversholt 30 June 1805 father John
mother Elizabeth.
Will get back with North Crawley PR.
Tazzie
-
1841 census listed as EVENS - adult ages in 1841 census were usually rounded down to nearest 5 yrs
1841 HO107/5/34 Folio 4 Page 3
address: Square, Toddington, Bedfordshire
EVENS
Samuel 35 Ag Lab
Mary Ann 15
Sarah 13
James 9
William 7
Jane 5
all born Bedfordshire
and here's Samuel in 1861
RG 9/1004 Folio 55 Page 1
address: The Fancy, Toddington, Bedfordshire
EVANS
Samuel head 60 Agricultural Labourer Toddington
Mary wife 54 Agricultural Labourers Wife Eversholt
George son 17 Agricultural Labourer Toddington
Joseph son 13 Agricultural Labourer "
Barbara
-
Hi Tazzie,
Yes, I thought Samuel must have been married twice, as Mary isn't on the 1841 census and children George & Joseph come a little later than the others
Barbara :)
-
Hi again ....
two good site for Victorian crime...
www.vcp.e2bn.org/
and...
www.apps.bedfordshire.gov.uk
Found more than one of mine in there
Hi Barbara....
So he was living with Mary Ann....looks like Elizabeth died 1839 ( Woburn district)
And for Sally see Sarah in the census.
Tazzie
-
Its late and the B "£$%"** links wont work.
Google Bedford Goal and find the Beds archive site.
The other one is Victorian crime & punishment.
Think I need sleep.
Night all.
Tazzie
-
Burial of Elizabeth Evans age 35 at Toddington on 4 Sept 1839
David
-
Thanks Barbara, Tazzie and David for all your help with those, I suspect you are use to this - one piece of the jigsaw leads to another. I think I have found Samuel's mum & dad - Joseph Evans and Mary Hart (married 09/01/1797) with Joseph being christened on 22/05/1774 in Marston Moretyne. Not sure how to confirm this - can you get marriage certs for that period or other record to confirm it.
I have since had some contact from some one in New Zealand who had traced a Thomas Evans (Toddington) born about 1806 and wondered whether they were connect to my family - possible brother to Samuel - but cannot see how I can confirm this.
I am spending some time reading the guides you referred me to.
Any suggestions regarding above greatly appreciated
Cheers
Mark (learning more everyday)
Ps is the North Crawley the place in Sussex or is there one in Bedfordshire. If Sussex I wonder what Samuel was doing there.
-
Hi Mark....
More likely the local one and not Sussex and its in Bucks on the edge of the border with Beds....was hoping to check PR's this week but things took over so will go next week.
Once into parish registers some can be good others well..... strong glasses and nerves of steel.There is a Thomas Evans bapt Toddington in 1807 parents Joseph & Mary Evans and a couple of memebr subs agian for Marston Moretain for a poss marriage....so could be Samuel and Thomas are indeed brothers... others born in Toddington to a Joseph & Mary Evans are ....
John Evins ( as spelt) 1799
Samuel 1802
Anne 1804
Joseph 1805
Thomas 1807
Benjamin 1810.
Parish records may have more details depending on incumbent at the time as some were better at recording details and added more info than was needed..... others just the basics. Maybe just maybe fathers trade is shown for the baptism but the date maybe a little early for that.
Tazzie
-
Oh .... missed this bit ...
If you contact person in New Zealand and find out who Thomas married and if it was in England we may just see some details if his father is listed (well after 1837) or he may be a witness.
Tazzie
-
Hi Tazzie
You are one well resourced indiviual - respect !
This is what they have sent me - with a mystery, but your guide the other day re prison / criminal records may answer it. The was a Thomas Evans that got in alot of trouble with police. The Victorian website you linked show me that.
This is there info
Arthur EVANS b 25 Nov 1868 was son of Mark EVANS (b 1 Sep 1839) and Sarah HOW (b abt 1837) all in Toddington. Arthur moved to Spalding, Lincs where he married Sarah Jane RATE WISEMAN.
Arthur's siblings were Margaret, Florence, Arthur and James
Mark's parents are confusing. I am 99% certain that his parents were Thomas EVANS and Hannah BREED but on Mark's marriage certificate he records his father as William EVANS. I know this is his marriage cert as I already knew his wife's name was Sarah HOW before i got it. I lost Mark in 1851 so I wonder if he fell out with his parents or there is some other unsolved mystery that would explain his advising a different name for his father at the time of his marriage....
Mark's siblings are Charley, Mary, George, Arthur, Clara and Fred.
I found him again in 1861 after he had married Sarah.
So there you go - I wondered whether Thomas was the one with the criminal record and was he related to Samuel. It seems possible.
Cheers buddy
Mark
-
Mark is shown on the IGI, extracted entry so reliable (as opposed to a member submission which is not reliable) as baptised on 25 Dec 1839 at Toddington, parents Thomas and Hannah. In the 1841 census
HO107/5/34/3 folio 14A
Toddington
Thomas Evans 35 ag lab
Hannah Evans 35
William Evans 4
Mark Evans 1
Mary Garner 16 straw plaiter
Joseph Garner 11 ag lab
Fanny Garner 9
Charlotte Garner 7
There's a marriage of Thomas Evans and Hannah Gainer (not an extracted item so needs checking) on 12 July 1835, so Hannah may have been a widow. There's a Charlotte Garner baptised in 1833 in Toddington, parents Joseph and Hannah, so it seems likely Hannah was a widow. But where's the burial of Joseph 1833-35? I can't see it. You need to check the parish register to see what it says about the 1835 marriage.
I can't see Mark in 1851 either
Unless there's another Mark born in Toddington c1839, of whom there's no trace, it seems as though the marriage entry may be in error when it names Marks's father as William. Was Mark's elder brother William a witness, which might have confused the vicar?
David
-
Without further research the best you can say about the 1797 marriage in Marston Moretaine is that it's possibly the couple who subsequently baptised children in Toddington, 8 miles away.
For
- it's the only marriage on the IGI that fits (never a good reason!)
- timing is good as they baptised one child in MM in 1797, with the first baptism in Toddington in 1799
- there's a Joseph Evans age 77 buried in Toddington on 13 Apr 1850 which ties up pretty well with the Joseph Evans who was baptised on 22 May 1774 at MM
- there's a Mary Evans age 48 buried in Toddington on 23 Sep 1822, but no Mary Hart baptised in either Toddington or MM. The nearest seems to be at Wootton in 1774, 3 miles from MM.
- there's no burial of a Joseph or Mary Evans of the right age in MM, nor any further children baptised in MM, so they presumably moved away from MM.
Against
- they may have married and come from outside Beds (but see below re 1841 where who is presumably Joseph, gives his birthplace as Beds)
- there's nothing definite linking the MM couple to the Toddington pair.
Joseph appears to have remarried after the death of Mary in 1822 - there's a marriage on the IGI at Toddington on 23 Jun 1823, Joseph Evans and Jane Worker
In 1841 in Toddington, HO107/5/34/3 folio 12
Joseph Evans 69 ag lab
Jane Evans 60
Charlotte Worker 20 straw plaiter
All born Beds
As a rule of thumb, if you really need someone to be alive in 1851 so you can find their birthplace, you can guarantee they'll die a few months before. And Joseph is no exception! Buried April 1850.
Your best bet is to go through Toddington parish chest to see if there is a Settlement Certificate from MM to Toddington. I've looked at http://blars.adlibsoft.com/ but drawn a blank. The relevant film number is 1597495 which can be ordered from and viewed at your nearest Family History Centre of the LDS - a full list can be found at www.familysearch.org. You might also consider contacting Bedford and Luton Archives and Records Service to see if they have a will for Joseph's putative father, also Joseph, who may died in either 1788 or 1782 in MM
David
-
I hate to say it but certificates can be wrong at the end of the day as well so as David says a mistake was made. We ordered the marriage cert for hubbies grandparents to find that his father was listed as William also the same as his son with the same job as his son...however he was Thomas and we have the proof. Also in parish records...I nearly had kittens when my nan's entry listed someone else as her father. He later became her uncle so he may have been her god father...well who knows I hope so.
Someone has a tree on ancestry detailing some of the Evans family but it was entered onto the site in 2005. I will send you their e-mail addy by pm .
Tazzie
-
Thanks David and Tazzie
I will let you know how i get on.
Cheers for now
Mark
-
Hi Mark .....
Looked through North Crawley today looking for one of my stray's no luck with her but did find yours...
Samuel X Evans bach of the parish of Toddington
Eliza X Robinson spinster of this parish
married by banns 18 Aug 1823
witnessess... Wm Nash
Wm Burge.
Tazzie
-
Thanks Tazzie, thats great.
Just need to solve me mystery of Samuel's parents - had no luck with that so far.
Cheers
Mark
-
Hi Mark
Luton is not far from me (Milton Keynes) but fraid I hate going down there traffic & parking a nightmare. I haven't tried the Bedford office at all but again dont get there much.
I will add the name to my little book for when I get to my mum's local.... might turn up something.
Tazzie
-
I thought i had got it with Joseph (B 1774 C 22/05/1774,Marston Moretyne and Mary Hart (Married 09/01/1797) but another tree (joanna's) on ancestry has a different son i think.
You are an expert at these things, what do you reckon to the 1911 census - cannot believe it is limited to findmypast.com. When do you reckon it will be on ancestry m8.
Thanks for putting my mystery in your book.
Cheers m8
Mark
owe you a few pints!!
-
Hi Mark
1911 ....I've learnt a thing or two only today...... extra rellies and proved a story my grandad told me years ago that he had a brother...well found him but he died age 2.
The cost could keep it to FindMyPast for a while and not sure yet how they will roll it out with regard to subs in the future. I prefer "a" site but as not working at the mo have to save somewhere.
As for pints ....not me really being a lady I do lady drinks .....unless its a Magners.....no ice..... :o spoils the drink.
Leighton Buzzard has the records in books for the time needed so may get a look when I go over. Will let you know.
Tazzie
-
I prefer "a" too. Pity not available to all sites.
Sorry to hear about your grandads brother.
Look forward to hear from you soon.
Cheers
Mark
-
Hi ...
Leighton library only has the transcript for the villages but there is nothing extra in the PR's to state any different to the findings so far.
It is always hard when they move about but we are often surprised to find they were more mobile than we thought. The Mary Hart b Wootton would be a good possible as they would pass village to village.
Remember the trees on Ancestry are only as good as the person who put them there. They may not have all the children or have them in a wrong marriage .
As a warning.....
3 People have submitted entries for my 3x great grandma marring 3 completely different people on IGI I can prove who she married just with census results so the certs will prove 100% that I am right....trouble is no way to correct them on IGI so granny Mary has been kidnapped!
Tazzie
-
Hi
I have been reasearching my family from Toddington for a while now, i myself was born and raised in Toddington. My paternal grandfathers name was John 'Jack' Hucklesby and on the census of 1901 he can be found with his siblings and his mother my ggrandmother Ann Hucklesby all living with George Evans in 'Pond Head No2', these were houses that were built around the village pond, and Ann was his housekeeper ??? ???
I would estimate George Evans year of birth would be abt 1870.
I also have a photo of who we were always told was our great uncle Mark but i don't know if he was a Hucklesby or an Evans. The photo was taken in Burraba, Australia, in 1926, i would estimate his age around mid to late thirties possibly a bit older, apparently he was adopted out as a small child and his adoptive parents emigrated to Australia but as of yet i can find absolutely nothing in the records about him :(.
Kind Regards
-
Great to hear from you ChinaCharlie and very interested in the possible family connection.
There is a George Evans in our family history and his birth date was 1870. He was my granddad's dad.
How there are a few Evans (to say the least) in Toddington - all of them seem to have a connection to my line.
I will have a look around my family tree. Incidently I am a Mark, but have not been to Australia!!
Cheers
-
Hi Mark
I have been doing some more detective work on the Hucklesby's and Evans in Toddington, as i said in my previous post on the census return of 1901 my ggrandmother Ann Hucklesby is living with George Evans as his housekeeper.
It was when i looked at the census for 1911 that things didn't add up, there was no sign of Ann and her children, i then began to find her children scattered around Toddington and the surrounding villages and normally the only reason for this is if the mother is no longer around to look after her children herself. After unsuccessfully trying to find a death certificate for Ann Hucklesby i thought maybe she married after the 1901 census, i eventually discovered that she did in fact marry George Evans in December 1901, after a bit more searching i found that Ann Evans nee Hucklesby died in March 1908 aged 40yrs so this explained why her children were farmed out to different families on the 1911 census,in fact Frederick Hucklesby Ann's eldest son was living rough around Toddington.
Does any of this tally up with what you know about George Evans? obviously that's if it's the same George Evans because as you said previously there were a few.
Kind Regards
-
Hi Mark,
Whilst searching some old bits and pieces passed down in my family we have come across an autograph book which may be of interest to you.
On the flyleaf is the legend "Winnie S Evans Christmas 1911".
Among the inscriptions in the book is Geo Evans, Syd Evans, Ethel Evans and Connie in childish writing. There are also a number of Taylors who also wrote in the book.
The dated inscriptions are all between 1912 and 1919. Some of the inscriptions have paintings and drawings attached.
We have not yet established how this book came into our family, but researching it has led us to your posts here.
Regards
Rebecca & Jill
-
Rebecca & Jill
I am so sorry that I have only just got back to you, but if I have only just seen the post. I usually get alerted so I must have missed it. I am so excited by your comments - I am very very interested because it sound like my Granddad's family - the names tie up.
Are there any Evans in your family?
My email address is (*)
Thank you for contacting me
Very best wishes
Mark
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
-
I've enjoyed reading this thread. I too am an Evans. My Grandfather was Ernest, son of George. I was trying to track down my great Uncle Mark, who was Ernest's brother. He was one of the orphaned children sent to Australia in 1922. I traced him to Wallsend where he passed away in 1974. This has given me enough info to start our family tree so thank you to all the contributors.
Malcolm