RootsChat.Com
Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: CitizenSmith on Tuesday 06 January 09 12:11 GMT (UK)
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I've recently discovered a reference to travelling showmen/Gypsies in Old School Yard, Tottenham, North London. They are a Delia Draper (widow, born Taylor) and her family in a caravan, belonging to the Hertfordshire Draper clan I'm researching.
Does anyone know anything about this address? Was it a wintering place for show folk?
Thanks in advance.
Sharon
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Hello in response to your enquiry my grandmother Emma Kefford had premises known as The Old School Yard Tottenham Hale I belieive she leased these premises and I through other researchers have traced back to a death in School Yard in 1908. Indeed Emmas husband Joseph Kefford died in the yard (cert obtained) in 1913. My mother was born in ther yard in 1924 and she tells me Emma kept the yard until about mid 1930s. I do have other info on the family and am related through Mannings and Taylors to Drapers I will send you personal message Irene
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Hi Irene
That's great - many thanks for replying. I have info on Taylors, Drapers and Mannings to share with you too.
I did try an enquiry to Haringey Archives (who cover the Tottenham area) but got a reply on Friday to say that Old School Yard doesn't appear on any of their historic maps or directory address lists.
So if you can point out its approximate location on a present-day A-Z, you'll be presenting them with a brand new discovery!
Look forward to hearing from you again.
Best wishes
Sharon
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Hello Sharon, the death Irene is refering to is my gt gt grandfather Walter Brinkley who married Henrietta Haynes aka Esther Loveridge. He died in a caravan at the Old School yard , The Hale, Tottenham in 1905, which is the full address on the death certificate. Their son Walter married Counceletta Scarrott (dau of Theophilus Scarrott and and my enigmatic Rhoda nee Smith) Best wishes Betty
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Hello Betty
Good to hear from you again - and thanks for the extra info. The Yard is beginning to look like a popular venue for different families.
Best wishes
Sharon
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Thanks for correcting me on the death year 1905 Betty, it reminded me its possible Emma Kefford may have had the lease on the yard for longer than I thought, family members feel sure the Yard was leased to Emma and not her husband Joseph, certainly after his death in the Yard in 1913 she continued with the lease for another decade plus.
Irene
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hi my friend irene?i didnt realise your nick name on here and at forst thought i had found another relative.any luck on rosies birth cert yet?its amazing how many travellers went through the old school yard.cathayb
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Hello Cathay no luck yet but getting lots of support from others for which I am very grateful, its brilliant to be able to share your findings with fellow hunters ups and downs false trails solving one problem only to create yet another everyone is in the same boat everyone knows that feeling and everyone I am sure is making some smashing friends along the way
Irene
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Hi Betty
I have just read your comment about Walter Brinkley, he is also my great, great grandfather. Do you have anymore information on him, his family or the Barnett family? I am trying to trace my roots and would love to know more.
Many thanks.
Kate
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Hello, Kate...Welcome to Rootschat! Have private messaged Betty, in case her notification was turnedof... so she might look in at your post. This is a very old thread, though, so if she has a new email, may not see it.
Sharon, et al... Haringey Council had this online, so unless a more recent "old school yard" someone there surely must know where this area is located!
" Holy Trinity Parish - Tottenham Green... joint environmental project with the Council to open up the Old School House yard"...Talk of plans to enhance the Old School House and yard for community use.
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To Kate, I have sent you a personal message but not sure if you can read them until you have done so many posts. It includes my email address to get in touch with me. Best wishes Betty
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Hi Betty...That was quick! Yes, Kate will have to post one more time in order to use the private messaging. ( the scroll icon, Kate....and just post a reply again with an acknowledgement, and you're on your way. Have fun!!!)
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Hello JJ
Many thanks for this new reference and for your DM. I will certainly check this out at the Harringey website.
Sharon
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Thank you so much. I knew it was a long shot as the original message were years ago.
Thank you again. Its really appreciated.
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There is another reference online from that council in 2013 that mentions "opening up of the Old School Yard". Of course it could have been any school to which they might be referring, but people don't capitalize ordinary words like that. ( well, most people, so worth a try) If not, also ask the council if it was a street or lane name at one time, as I found it on an old list of names no longer used, but can't find it again. This sign appears to be located outside of the hamlet south of 7 sisters Rd...But can't view an old c1900s map to see if it was included in the district back then... http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ris/
( also there is a recent pub by that name so it comes up on several pages of results no matter what the keywording ::))
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Hello again
Many thanks for this reference. I will see if I can discover the street address of this residential development.
Appreciate your help and your interest in this.
Sharon
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Cold & cloudy here so looked for more on the realty sign...Nevermind that development, as another search for the same image brought up the same sign but with the location as Islington. Not sure if a Photoshopping, or the agents are just using that name willy nilly.
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"A" shows that WW1 Pension form c. 1917 for John Cox /spouse Emily Draper was completed with residence as Old School Yard, The Hale Tottenham, so am thinking the street was "The Hale". (Rather than simply being in Hale) Odd that nobody knows of a school yard that bordered the street. Maybe someone perhaps could find more by investigating permits / licence / leasing records.
I'm NOT a relative...But here's an FHS Tree submitted by a rellie:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GQBB-3XK
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"A" shows that WW1 Pension form c. 1917 for John Cox /spouse Emily Draper was completed with residence as Old School Yard, The Hale Tottenham, so am thinking the street was "The Hale".(Rather than just being in Hale) Odd that nobody knows of a school yard that bordered the street. Maybe someone perhaps could find more by investigating permits / licence / leasing records.
Not a relative...But here's an FHS Tree submitted by a rellie:
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/GQBB-3XK
Yes I think I mentioned before that the death certificate of my gt gt grandfather Walter Brinkley stated that he died in Caravan, Old School Yard, The Hale, Tottenham.
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Not knowing the area I at first thought that The Hale referred to the area itself, Tottenham Hale. If I lived there, I'd be at the archives in a blink looking for more ;D