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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Billycourty on Saturday 03 January 09 22:10 GMT (UK)
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Hey everyone, sorry to start a new post but just wanting to see what you think of this.
So in researching another branch of my family tree, Ernest Albert Pizzey (Millie's husband). If you remember Millie's mother is Kate Eade.
URL: http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq150/billycourty/treegraph.jpg
As you can see from the partial family tree above; Ernest Pizzey's mother and father are George and Ada Bennett, THEN Ada's parents are William and Mary Bennett (we dont have and are looking for Mary's maiden name). In the 1901 census we found something strange, William and Mary have a stepdaughter living with them called KATE EADE as you can see in the two pictures below.
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq150/billycourty/clearlist.jpg
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq150/billycourty/writtenlist.jpg
Still with me? lol
Ok the real headspinner: The daughter (Ada) and the stepdaughter (Kate) grow up and their own children (Millicent and Ernest Albert) get married.....
Or do they?
In the 1891 census we find Kate Eade with her parents (William and Ellen Eade), we dont find in the same census a stepdaughter Kqte Eqde with the Bennett family.
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq150/billycourty/clearlistEade1891.jpg
And in the 1901 census we find a second Kate Eade who seems to be living with her mum and siblings.....
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq150/billycourty/clearlistEade1901.jpg
Is this 2 Kate Eades? Ages slightly different, in 2 different locations on the same census...(how likely would this be?)
Or are these 2 families somehow interwoven.....
Jaymee
Moderator comment: screen-shots of information from another site removed. Please ensure that any such images do not breach copyright. Thanks
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If the Kate Eade in the Bennett family is a stepdaughter, would she be a natural daughter to the wife?
Added: looks like she is on the census...mother listed as Mary...wonder if you';; find Mary married before to a HORACE ;D
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Yes i think she would be a daughter (if she exists) to the wife.
But she isnt with this family in the 1891 census (when she should be 6yos). We searched families for a Kate Eade 6yos but had no parents that fit.
But the question really is, is the younger kate real and there is indeed two Kate's. meaning younger kate's mother was married before and had her or if she is ILLEGITIMATE then EADE would be Mary's maiden name.
Thus both sets of great great grandparents share the last name EADE (where the families are totally separate) and live in the same few streets of london.
Or it's my older Kate in two houses but different ages.
Added: i need a maiden name for Mary so if i found she was married before that would give me a trail.
anyway my head hurts
Jaymee
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Why do you not look for Millicent's birth reg for a MMN?
Can't see why her mother should be Kate though, (don't expect prior knowledge of me)
Pauline
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Kate Eade is Millie's mother and Kate Eade's Maiden name is EADE.
BUT
This is not about Millie she is happy. I just mentioned her because she marries Ernest Pizzey, who's great grandparents have a step daughter Kate Eade, who grows up in the same house as as a sister to Ada Bennett.....
Ok now my head hurts again
I don't need Kate Eade's maiden name i need Mary, Kate Eade's mothers maiden name and Mary is not the first Kate's mother.
Now your head hurts
Jaymee
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Kate Eade is Millie's mother and Kate Eade's Maiden name is EADE.
You have not stated how you know this to be fact.
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Do you have William & Mary Bennett in 1891? Just that I haven't found them, and they would have had Daisy & Ada at this stage... do you have the ref. no.s? for the bennett 1891 census?
Am looking at marriages...just wanted to confirm birthplaces etc...
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,350289.0.html
Pauline, there's a huge long story here about Kate Eade, and Millie's relationship :)
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Thankyou Daisy Loo.
I would have posted this in that post but it was getting long and not so relevant to this question.
I hope i didnt sound rude Pauline, i didnt mean to not explain properly, when Millie's birth cert comes i think i will tatoo it on my arm :)
I can't find them on the 1891 either (yet) which made me start to doubt if Kate Eade (with the Bennett's was just Kate Eade of the Eade's )
Then Ada and Kate (like sisters) marry their children together.
Or is Kate Eade (Bennett) a real EADE with Mary's maiden name or a married name that links to my Eade family on the original Kate's side.
Or there are just lots of Kate Eades and its a coincidence.
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A couple of things...
I just can't find the Bennett family in 1891...most odd...kate;s name could have been spelt wrong...etc etc...
I'll keep looking :)
BUT
Just want to clarify one thing. On your family tree, you have Ada Bennett b. 1883, but if the pic below that IS (duh, which it is, as I have it open :)) the 1901 census, she was only 11, so that would have made her birth date 1890.
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I have pm'd you...
but looks like I found a living relative of Kennedy O Morris...and he has your Kate Eade, and her father & mother...not who you think! Mary was Mary Hawkins, Eade was her married name :)
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Okay, going on the family tree that I found, of Kennedy O'Brian Morris:
They reckon Kate was born 1885 (which would fit with her being a stepdaughter, in 1901 to William Bennet & Mary
I have found a birth reg for Kate Eade: as follows: Year 1885 QTR: JAS District: Farnham Vol 2a Pg 95
It looks like Kate's father, Cesear Augustus Eade died in 1885, the year she was born. However it doesn't seem that he was married to Mary, she is listed as his housekeeper, and has 4 other children! of the 4, 2 of them have the surname Hawkins, and 2 of them have the surname Roe! Mary herslef, is under the name Mary Roe! Oh my! If this is right poor Kate Eade came from a very complicated line!!! Does your head hurt now???
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I think I found them on the 1891
Mary White, head, married, 36, born Petworth Sussex (no occupation)
Archie Eade, son, 10, scholar, born Ash, Surrey
Rose Eade, dau., 6, scholar, Ash Surrey
Catherine Eade, dau, age 5, Ash
Daisy White, dau., age 3, Ash
Ada White, daug., age 1, born Hounslow, Middlesex
William Bennett, lodger, single, age 76, Labourer, born Sunbury, Middlesex
RG12/1025
County of Middlesex, Civil Parish Heston, Hounslow
Karen
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Marriages 1898 Brentford
William BENNETT, Mary EADE on the same page
:D
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There is also a marriage
Thomas White and
Mary Eade
1886 Dec Farnham
Vol. 2a
Page 215
Karen
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Just noting ...
William BENNETT, 76, lodger in the household of Mary WHITE in 1891 is listed as single and born Sunbury MDX
William BENNETT in 1901 is listed as 57; what is his birthplace?
What is Mary BENNETT's birthplace? And birthplaces of all the children?
IF the 1901 people are William BENNETT & Mary EADE who m in 1898, then the two BENNETT children would be William's (relationships are to Head) but not necessarily Mary's.
Why is it suggested that Caesar Augustus EADE is the father of Kate EADE b Farnborough (i.e. Farnham) Sep qtr 1885 ? From the 1881 census (on FamilySearch) there seems to be nothing to suggest that Mary ROE is Mary EADE??
There's the birth of an Archie EADE, Farnham, Sep qtr 1881
And a Rose EADE, Farnham, Dec qtr 1883
These are with Mary WHITE (presumably after her marriage to Thomas WHITE) in 1891.
Mary is listed as married; has Thomas WHITE been found in 1891?
Has anyone found Mary EADE (under EADE or any other name) in 1881?
Sorry, but I'm confused ...
JAP
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/gives everyone an aspirin
Ok just typing quickly, i have no concrete dates for William and Mary, but i do have Ada Bennett's Marriage which lists the father as William
http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq150/billycourty/Ada2ndMarriage.jpg
Here is the marg cert for Ada listing her dad as William Bennett farm labourer (deceased).
YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHY SHE HAS THE LAST NAME PIZZEY AND SHE MARRY'S AND BECOMES A PIZZEY.
Just trust me she is Late Pizzey Formerly Bennett......
The Kennedy O Morris is very important because it is most likely that we share Kate Eade in our family trees. That is probably why she named her child Ken O Morris, not after the Mister but because of the G. Father....
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The link Daisy found to the Kennedy O morris is certainly Kate's son from the Morris/Eade marriage,
So the Morris family have researched their family tree and they thought that Kate Eade's parents where Caesar Augustus Eade and Mary Hawkins (with dates). But they didnt get any further then that.
But i have the Marriage cert for Kate to Morris and she lists her father as William. But i too am stuck with William and Ellen as parents to Kate but no maiden name..
Then there is the Kate Eade with mother Mary Nee White, so IS that the right Mary?
Something is trying to click, i just have try and sort it out.
How does Ada Bennett have a Son who marries Kate Eade's daughter and also have a step sister Kate Eade and that just be a coincidence?
OR IS it because i have got the wrong WILLIAM as father to Ada, because i don't know Ada's mother's name.
Anyway sorry to give everyone a head ache.
SIDE NOTE: Remember Kate Eade (the original's) Says Horace is her father, but all the facts fitted with William, now it could be that Caesar Augustus Eade is the real name. SO why call himself Horace or WIlliam?
Anyway going to go back through all my paper work and state what we no by paper evidence to be fact.
Jaymee
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1881 census: RG11; Piece: 1112; Folio: 130; Page: 14; This is what gave the name Mary Roe.
She re-married as Mary Eade, but haven't found a marriage yet.
Added:
Jaymee, I thought on the marriage cert, Kate listed her father as Horace?
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Thanks Daisy i just remembered and noted that as well...
I think we are getting ourselves into knots lol.
SO
Fact we have marriage cert for Kate Eade and Morris, SHE says father is Horace Eade MORRIS says his father is WILLIAM BENNETT.
Then us rootchatters researched and found a perfect match for wife, children and dates with a WILLIAM EADE, Horace was never found.
So everyones happy.
Until Caesar Augustus EADE rides into battle....
I think somewhere we have taken a wrong turn, but is the CLUE In the younger Kate EADE living with WILLIAM BENNETT or is that another red herron?
Jaymee
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Taking all the information that has been posted here, there is another possible story emerging.
Found in 1881: Cesaer Eade & Mary Roe
Kate was b. 1885, to mother Mary Hawkins/Roe (her birth cert could be ordered to ascertain Mary's real maiden name)
Cesaer apparently died in 1885, and Mary Hawkins/Roe re-married as Mary Eade to Thomas White in 1886. By 1891, it appears that Thomas had cleared the scene, and we find Mary White living with a lodger, William Bennett, born in Sunbury.
In 1901, we find them again, this time Mary married to William (b.sunbury)
It appears to me, that this Mary was either very unlucky in love, or....something! How she got all these men to marry her with all these children, is beyond me!
It fits to Kate Eade, 1) it's a better age match for marriage cert 2) it would explain why she went into service at 14 3) why she is listed as stepdaughter to William in 1901 I'm just disappointed that there seems to be no Horace in the picture yet!
Edit: You know, she may not have remembered her father's name, if he HAD died the same year as her birth, which could explain why Horace?
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Jaymee and Daisy Loo,
Those are various of the points I was trying to make, I think.
We see the 1881 census with Caesar EADE (single), Mary ROE (married), and HAWKINS and ROE children. None of Mary's or the HAWKINS's children nor the ROE's children's relationships are stated.
So why do we make any connexion with Mary EADE who later married WHITE and who is possibly the Mary EADE who later married BENNETT?
I'm not rejecting such possibilities just asking for proof.
Incidentally, Kate/Catherine etc EADE is not a rare name ...
And EADE is not an uncommon name.
Again ....
it would be very helpful if people could go back and provide answers to all the specific questions which have been asked here and on the other thread!
Kindest regards,
JAP
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Yeah i think it is highly likely she didnt know her father's name, it's one of the reasons we accepted William so easily into the family.
BUT the MORRIS family list clearly with a date Caesar Aug. EADE, I wonder why they thought that? Such a strange name for the time.
But then they dont look futhur back.
I am going to look into the cesus you just pointed out Daisy you could be onto something there, but i need to digest it all.
So not talking about that yet as i dont grasp it all.
Jaymee
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Jaymee,
Sorry, but it's all too easy to leap from person to person who are possibly connected.
Proof is needed - especially from certificates.
All the very very best,
JAP
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THanks JAP yeah i know you mentioned all those possibilities! Your a smart cookie.
Well really what i am trying to work out is
ADA is step sister to Kate Eade and Her Son marries Kate Eade's daughter.
Have i got the wrong William Bennett?
Have i go the wrong William Eade?
Is the truth to who is the right Bennett/Eade in the fact both families have a Kate Eade.
Is the second Kate Eade a red herron and i have the wrong Bennett parents for Ada?
Jay
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Not a problem JAP
I have some leads to follow now, and ideas of birth/m/d certs to order,
i appreciate your time.
Just mainly wanted to see if Kate eade the second was a real person or the older Kate listed in two places at once.
thanks for the well wishes
Jaymee
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In the 1891 census, Mary White has 4 children who were born in Ash, Surrey, one of whom is Catherine.
This was where Mary Roe was living with this Caeser Eade Sorry, I got that wrong. It was where the father was born, and, and where Kate Eade was born and the four other children of Mary Roe were born. That was one link.
No-one is leaping from person to person, just all avenues need to be explored. And I agree, certs need to be got...but no-one had found a birth cert for Kate Eade, right? Not that fitted with the marriage cert. This is fun, and yes, it can get twisted into knots, but at the end of the day, if we are all enjoying hunting around, and Jaymee finds out the true links, then its all for a good cause. :)
Also, the Bennetts were related to Jaymee's tree in another direction, to find that in one of their census's, a stepdaughter called Kate Eade, is far to much of a coincidence to ignore. That line had to be explored :)
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Jaymee,
We'll just have to see!
Slowly slowly catchee monkey as the saying goes! We'll just have to watch what happens and see how it all pans out.
Kate EADE is not an uncommon name. EADE is not an uncommon name.
Kindest regards,
JAP
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I just want to say if daisy loo is right:
Then William and Mary Bennett
Caesar Eade and Mary Eade
the Mary is the same person.
So the great great grandmother on my father's mothers and father's side is the same person.
I am not saying its true.
But i cant find any info going back for Eade or Bennett past the same point.
Jaymee
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I just wonder more if its not the KATE EADE that is common
But the WILLIAM BENNETT
And that Ada Bennett's dad is WRONG
And that the William Bennett i listed as Ada's dad is infact the step dad of Kate Eade but its a totally unrelated BENNETT line, and the EADE link is the right link to the EADE's but the BENNETT is the wrong connection to the BENNETT line.
As i have nothing but a William Bennett name to make Ada's dad.
Jaymee
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Just noting ...
William BENNETT, 76, lodger in the household of Mary WHITE in 1891 is listed as single and born Sunbury MDX
William BENNETT in 1901 is listed as 57; what is his birthplace?
What is Mary BENNETT's birthplace? And birthplaces of all the children?
JAP
Birthplaces and other details from the 1901 census are as follows:
William Bennett, 57 (1844), Occupation Wireworker, Sunbury, Wiltshire
Mary Bennett, 49 (1852), Littleworth, Sussex
Kate Eade, 16 (1885), Ash, Surrey
Daisy Bennett, 13 (1888), Ash, Surrey
Ada Bennett, 11 (1890, Hounslow, Middlesex
These details match with the 1891 census apart from the William (the lodger) age and Daisy and Ada's surnames have changed from White to Bennett!!
Kath
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This whole line is dead confusing! If this Mary is the same one throughout, she has children, that then seem to disappear, and re-appear!
Just a note: The William Bennet in the 1891 census as a lodger, I believe is a transcription error...his occupation is a labourer, and I think his age is 16. Doesn't clear things ny, BUT he isn't 76.
Working backwards from1901/1891 etc, I haven't found a Mary White in 1881, with a newborn baby...and I know, the baby could have born after the census was taken, but she could have been married.
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1881 census (RG11/1112, Folio 130, Page 14)
Littleworth, Sussex
Caesar Augustus Eade, Head, Unm, 25, Ag Lab, Surrey Ash
Mary Roe, Serv, Mar, 28, Housekeeper (Dom), Sussex Littleworth
Charles Hawkins, Servs Son, 7, Sussex Pulborough
Nelly " , Servs Dau, 6, "
Horris (?) Roe, Servs Son, 4 "
Alice " , Servs Dau, 1, Sussex, Bryworth, Petworth
As a matter of interest there is someone with Kate Eade on their tree on Ancestry, that gives a date of birth as 6 June 1885, born The Common, Ash, Surrey, parents listed as Cornelius Augustus Eade and Mary Hawkins. Having an exact date of birth suggests that they have or have seen sight of a birth cert!
Off to look some more :D
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Charles Hawkins (from the 1881 census), baptism is listed on the IGI in 1874 Pulborough, no father, mother Mary Hawkins. So we have her maiden name, now to prove/disprove whether she is the right Kate's mother!
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Just had a thought, I notice on Ada Bennett's marriage cert, that her father is William Bennett wire worker, so that fits nicely with the occupation on the 1901 census.
On your other post, Kate Eade's father is listed as Horace Eade, sieve maker, could this possibly be similar to a wire worker?
Kath
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Katherine, what family tree was that? Because I found one, where the father was Caeser Agustus...and yes with a daughter Kate Eade...
the tree I found was the Barnes Family Tree. :)
Added: I don't think Ada & Kate share the same father
Good find Re; Charles Hawkins...also fits with the family tree I found, where Kate Eade's mother was Mary Hawkins...wonder how she came to be Roe though?
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Hi Daisy Loo,
Yes it is the Barnes family tree, they actually have the date of birth on there for Kate, might be worthwhile Jaymee making contact.
There is a marriage between a James Roe and Mary Hawkins in 1875, in the registration district of Thakeham, Sussex.
No I personally don't believe that Ada & Kate share a father.
Kath
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Hey everyone,
I'm reading everything everyone is finding and digging myself, nothing more to add at the moment, just trying to get my head around it.
:D :o :D :o :D :o :D :o :D :o :D :o
That about sums it up really
Jaymee
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Hello Jaymee
Mary is listed as married on 1881 census. Her husband, James Roe may be this one on the 1881 census in Petsworth as James Row. Dwelling given as Byworth.
James Row married, born Bognor, Sussex, age 41 he is enumerated in the house of Jane Moore a widower
RG11/Piece1112/Folio26/page21
This death could be his:
September 1881 quarter, James Albert Roe aged 40, St. Olave v.1d, p.131
Linda
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Hello Again
Scratch this, as the White children are born after some Eade children as found in Karen's 1891 census find.
Possibly White connection to Mary Hawkins /Roe
Interestingly there is a marriage with Mary Roe and James White on the same page December 1881 quarter, St. Saviour, volume 1d, page 343.
Linda
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Yeah there has been a Mary Bennett, White, Roe, Hawkins, Eade all seem to be the same person.
Maybe she is everyones missing link in their family trees :).
I am trying to process it and find the truth
Jaymee
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1881 census (RG11/1112, Folio 130, Page 14)
...
Alice " , Servs Dau, 1, Sussex, Bryworth, Petworth
Just to highlight the 1881 census found for James Row has dwelling place as Byworth. Connects nicely with Alice by the looks of it.
Linda
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Oh wow, Linda, you really have connected up some dots!
The thing is Jaymee, how do you prove that that Kate Eade is the right Kate Eade? What paper evidence do you already have for her? I know you have her marriage cert, which gives her father as Horace...what was her age on that? Do you have anything else at all for her? Like where she was born?
I am thinking it is more and more likely, that this line of Kate Eade and the line of Ada Bennett is right, because it ends with first cousins getting married. That's not so unusual.
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but i do have Ada Bennett's Marriage which lists the father as William
I have a marriage wherein she gives her father as John, but she lied ::) as she was illigitimate. Perhaps if her father died, she just thought of William as her father and put him down.
Karen
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Ceasor A. Eade can be found on the 1871 living with his mother Sarah in Ash, Surrey RG10, Piece 820, Folio 103, Page 29 (transcribed as Coesar A. Eade)
and in the 1861 with his parents Richard and Sarah in Ash Surrey, RG9, Piece 434, Folio 9, Page 12 (transcribed as Ede)
Karen
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Just seen something else...
Looking at Kate Eade's marriage cert on the other thread, and the witnesses are: W allen, and a Daisy Allen. Could that have been a married Daisy Bennett, at her sister's wedding?
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Thanks everyone, when you have so many branches on your fmaily tree, so many certificates, it all gets hard to remember , i am going to go eyeball all my certs and see what i can find.
and decide what to order up.
will keep you all informed
Jay
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Hello
I think I found them on the 1891
Mary White, head, married, 36, born Petworth Sussex (no occupation)
Archie Eade, son, 10, scholar, born Ash, Surrey
Rose Eade, dau., 6, scholar, Ash Surrey
Catherine Eade, dau, age 5, Ash
Daisy White, dau., age 3, Ash
Ada White, daug., age 1, born Hounslow, Middlesex
William Bennett, lodger, single, age 76, Labourer, born Sunbury, Middlesex
There's the birth of an Archie EADE, Farnham, Sep qtr 1881
If you consider a 7-9 month pregnancy she would have been pregnant with Archie Eade at the latest most likely February 1881 and that is considering the registration of his birth was in the same month born. Looks like she left James Roe (as he is living on April 3, 1881 - i.e. she is listed as married on census) for Caesar Augustus Eade on or before February 1881. She could not legally marry Caesar. Archie would have been illegitimate when conceived. Sure looks like a marriage will not exist for Caesar and Mary.
Linda
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Hello
The 1891 is the census aged 36 where she is Mary White and lists born Petworth, all others seem to be Littleworth, Sussex. In 1881 she is 28, 1901 49. Birth age is never consistant. Appears Mary would have been born in the 1850s.
Update - proved not the case: I suspect Mary Hawkins could very well be illigitimate if this is her found on IGI:
Mary Jane Hawkins christened March 30, 1860, Petworth, Sussex
Mother: Mary Hawkins
If this is the case, Horace could very well be the father's name and very difficult to prove or disprove. This birth is registered in March 1860 quarter in Petworth on England BMD. Could it be a late registration. Anyway one to consider.
Update: Karen has let me know that Mary Jane Hawkins is aged 1 on 1861 census living at Petworth Workhouse, Sussex. Mary Hawkins aged 23 is also listed on the page.
Linda
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This summary is for my own benefit (I was fast losing track!). Congratulations everyone on great finds.
It now seems almost certain that Kate EADE, the mother of Millie EADE b 1912, is the Kate EADE, b 1885, daughter (illegitimate?) of Mary HAWKINS/ROE/EADE later WHITE/BENNETT & (probably) Caesar Augustus EADE.
If this is correct, then it explains why Kate got the name of her father wrong as he died before she was born - she would not have known him. Perhaps she just picked on the given name of one of her half-brothers, Horace.
Mary HAWKINS's maiden name is not yet confirmed.
It is probably HAWKINS in the light of the 1874 baptism of Charles HAWKINS in the IGI (mother Mary HAWKINS, no father named). From age in censuses, it seems that Mary HAWKINS was born ca 1852-1855. Her birthplace is given as Sussex - Fittleworth in 1881, Petworth in 1891 and Littleworth in 1901.
There is the birth of a possible Mary HAWKINS Mar qtr 1851, Chichester, Sussex - Chichester included Fittleworth which was later taken over by Petworth. This birth is probably the same as the following from the IGI - Mary HAWKINS bap 28 Jan 1851, parents Josiah HAWKINS & Phoebe. A Josiah HAWKINS m a Phoebe CHEATER, 28 Sep 1849, Pulborough, Sussex.
ROE seems to be a married name.
EADE is probably just an assumed name - no marriage to Caesar EADE has been found.
WHITE seems to be a married name.
BENNETT seems to be a married name
This scenario still fits with the family's idea that Kate was considerably older than her husband Arthur MORRIS. Their ages were given as 25 and 21 on the marriage cert but Kate would really have been 28.
And it leaves yet to be solved the question of which family Kate worked for - it's still possible that it was the Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN family especially as one of Kate's MORRIS sons was named Kennedy O'Brien/O'Brian MORRIS possibly after either or both of Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN snr & jnr).
And it still leaves unresolved the question of who was Millie EADE's father.
1874-1875
Mary HAWKINS has:
Charles HAWKINS b Mar qtr 1874 Thakeham, Sussex
(bap 28 Feb 1874, Pulborough, Sussex, mother Mary HAWKINS, no father named)
Ellen HAWKINS b Mar qtr 1875 Thakeham, Sussex
1875-1880
Mary HAWKINS marries James ROE, Dec qtr 1875 Thakeham, Sussex
They have:
Horace ROE Dec qtr 1876 Thakeham, Sussex
Alice ROE Mar qtr 1880 Petworth, Sussex
1881 census
EADE Caesar Augustus, Head, unmarried, 25, Ag Lab b Ash Surrey
(Caesar's baptism in 1858 can be found in the IGI. He is a son of Richard Ede & Sarah, and has siblings William 1846, Elizabeth 1848, Emily 1850, and - possible twin - Alice 1858)
ROE Mary, Servant (Housekeeper), married, 28, b Fittleworth, Sussex
and Mary's children
HAWKINS Charles 7 b Pulborough, Sussex
HAWKINS Nelly 6 b Pulborough, Sussex
ROE Morris (transcription error for Horris/Horace?) 4, b Pulborough, Sussex
ROE Alice 1, b Byworth Petworth, Sussex
1881 Sep qtr
EADE Archie b Farnham
1883 Dec qtr
EADE Rose b Farnham
1885 Mar qtr
Caesar Augustus EADE, age 29, dies Farnham Surrey (on the border of Surrey, Sussex & Hampshire)
1885 Sept qtr
Kate EADE born Farnborough (an alternative name for Farnham) - birth cert needed
1886 Dec qtr
Mary EADE marries in Farnham; a Thomas WHITE is on the same page
1891 census
Hounslow, Middlesex
WHITE Mary, married, Head, 36 b Petworth Sussex
EADE Archie, 10, b Ash Surrey
EADE Rose, 6, b Ash
EADE Catherine, 5, b Ash
WHITE Daisy, 3, b Ash
WHITE Ada, 1, b Hounslow
BENNETT William, lodger 76 (??), single, labourer b Sunbury, Middlesex
1898 Sep qtr
Mary EADE marries at Brentford; a William BENNETT is on the same page
1901 census
BENNETT William Head 57, wireworker, b Sunbury, Middlesex
BENNETT Mary Wife 49, b Littleworth, Sussex
EADE Kate Stepdaughter 16, b Ash, Surrey
BENNETT Daisy Daughter 13, b Ash, Surrey
BENNETT Ada Daughter 11, b Hounslow, Middlesex
1909 Dec qtr
Daisy Louisa BENNETT marries in Farnham, a Walter Ernest ALLEN is on the same page
1912
Photo said to be of Kate EADE working as a Nanny with the three children she was looking after.
1912 December
EADE Millie born Hackney, mother Kate EADE, no father named.
1913 December
Kate EADE, 25 (really 28) marries Arthur Henry MORRIS 21. Witnesses are Daisy ALLEN (presumably Kate's half-sister) and W. ALLEN (presumably Daisy's husband). Kate gives her father's name as Horace.
JAP
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Here is a website which indicates that Mary HAWKINS, daughter of Josiah HAWKINS & Phoebe CHEATER, is "our" Mary HAWKINS. See:
http://web.aanet.com.au/~dennisonline/hawkins/pafg05.htm
It takes the HAWKINS family back several generations from Josiah.
It says that James ROE was still alive in the 1891 census.
JAP
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Nicely put JAP :) I was trying to get it all straight in my head, and there it all is...
Reading it set out like that, does all seem to fit. It woul also make more sense coming down to the right Kate Eade living as a stepdaughter with the Bennett family. I think what threw Jaymee at first, is that the child of Ada, stepsister to Kate Eade, married the child of Kate Eade, giving them a common grandmother....to put it simply, a first cousin married a first cousin. Which isn't so unusual, I have been told. (I actually have it in my family) In fact doesn't that make more sense, than two entirely seperate families?
We haven't confirmed who the father to Kate is, but I do suspect Caeser Augustus Eade, as mother Mary is certainly not shy in putting all the different surnames down for her children! (What a complicated life she must have had!)
If James Roe was still alive in the 1891 census, would explain why there will not be a marriage between Mary & Caeser Eade, as he died in 1885.
(JAP, if I gave you all my files on my family tree, would you lay it all neatly out like that for me???! :D)
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Thanks JAP you certainly deserve all your stars.
I hate seeming rude by not posting, its just confusing and i am thinking about how i move forward, so because i am digesting and not up to knowing how i am planning to move forward i dont really have anything new to add.
But one thing seems clear, my family is a load of serial Illegitimate child breeders. AND if MAry is my great great grandmother on both sides, she has done a very good thing in giving her children their fathers names even if its not leagal, other wise it would have been impossible to find any info of the family on either my grandmothers father or mother's side.
Even now we cant be sure she had my great grandmother to the father she thought she did, but that historical paper trail is all we have.
THe fact that both my grandfather's and grandmother's lines stop in the same exact place, i.e cant be researched. Points to this crazy twist of people being true.
Also its crazy that because of the family link i might have been given a clue as to who their familie are behind them that i would never have been able to find.
BUT tell me, if you think the two Kate Eades are the same person listed in two different houses on the census, as we see a Kate Eade with parents in 1901 and with step parents in 1901,
Or you think the one i have listed with father william mother ellan is not a relivite at all....and its the one living listed as stepdaughter is the true Kate Eade, and the other just has her name?
Jay
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Daisy Loo,
I'm afraid that I can't think straight unless everything is set out in order ;)
Kate EADE and Ada WHITEorBENNETT were half-sisters i.e. they had the same mother (Mary HAWKINS) but different fathers.
Their children (Millie EADE from Kate and Ernest A PIZZEY from Kate's half-sister Ada) were therefore not even full 1st cousins; just half 1st cousins.
Like you I have marriages between 1st cousins in my records (especially on my children's side). Very common, I think, especially in small villages. My children's Scottish Ggggparents were not only 1st cousins but were also differently related at a generations remove.
The situation of Millie and Ernest wouldn't have been at all uncommon (though sometimes the church wasn't all that keen on 1st cousin marriage) - especially as they weren't even full 1st cousins.
Difficult to know whether Mary HAWKINS was actually free to marry when - at various times - she did! As you say, Mary obviously had a complicated life.
Jay,
Let's hope you have a win at the lottery and can buy all the relevant certificates!!
Best wishes to all,
JAP
PS: Jay, I've just read your post. No, I'm sure that Kate EADE, daughter of William & Ellen, is NOT the mother of Millie (that was just a hypothesis which has now been knocked right out of the water because of all the other relevant connexions of Kate EADE who was with the BENNETTs). The mother of Millie is surely Kate, the daughter of Caesar EADE & Mary HAWKINS (or whatever name Mary had at the time).
But who knows what the relationships were of all the various EADE and other families that were around at the time ... That's another matter altogether!
PPS: Jay, stars are no indication at all of quality - just quantity :D
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Thanks JAP
Once again you have posted a clear and great post, things like this make me itch for a pen and paper for some reason lol, even though you can write it out on the pc, doesnt FEEL the same.
Anyway thanks to you i am on the same page.
I firstly want to make a branch of my family tree saying this is a true fact, and then see where the branch ends up. before i order certs.
I can always chop the branch off if its not right, then i can see what certs i need.
I ordered Millies birth cert, which isnt useful now. And one for the Ruben Pizzey, but i dont know what the heck to order just get for this Kate Eade story so i am going to play around with it on Ancestry.com first.
Thanks everyone, and i think we speak for everyone JAP in saying everyone of your stars is quality not just quantity!
Jay
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Jay and Daisy and many others on this thread (and special thanks from me to KarenM on the other thread and to katherinem on this thread who provided info which sorted things out for me),
I don't know how you all (especially Daisy) found this material but I can assure you that my boring way of going about things would never ever have made these quantum leaps into other families. Once you'd made them, it was easy to pull them together but I would never have made them in the first place.
Great stuff and now it seems that Mary HAWKINS can be traced back further from her birth for several generations ... Even if some of Mary's children's fathers might stop at dead ends! But even those might go further back - though Kate's daughter Millie's Pa seems like it might be a real dead end.
Many thanks for such a great puzzle!
JAP
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I'm afraid to say, hat most of what I found was on Ancestry :) and again, it was a great team effort there...I love a good mystery.
Jay, just wanted to say that it ISN'T useless ordering Millie's birth cert....first of all, Millie is your great grandmother, it's always good to have her birth cert, and second of all, who knows what info is on it? It may be able to confirm who Kate Eade is (although I am in total agreement with JAP, and 99% believe that we have foudn the right Kate Eade)...but any extra info will be good. It would give an address of where Kate Eade was at the time of birth, which alone could confirm a lot of things :)
If you start there, and take it slow :) I hope you manage to contact the other tree-holder...if not, I can, and post a message and direct them to this thread?
Good luck, and I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread...given me a well earned break from my own family ;D ;D
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Daisy,
I too should have thankedyou personally, of course without your hard work most of the info wouldnt have come to light.
i am very sorry not to have mentioned you earlier before, i was just thinking about the enormous task JAP under took to try and make sense of everything,
And this thought being in my head it I didnt think to thankyou personally.
Thankyou
I didnt see before where you had pointed out the witnesses to kate's wedding, also Millie's cert should be here in a day or two now so its good that it might still be use full.
Dont worry that i will take everything we have hypothesized here as hard fact, but i will run with it as fact for fun on ancestery.com to see where it takes me.
If it is heading anywhere then i will know what certs to order.
Thankyou again to everyone who posted information, i hope i am not insulting you or your generosity by not listing your name.
Jaymee
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I contacted the webmaster at reply #50 above and have had a reply. No doubt we'll hear more.
It's all great fun!!
JAP
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Hi,
After Apr 1969, death certificates give the place and date of birth, as well as the maiden name of the deceased.
The good news is that I have found a death registration for Kate Morris, date of birth 6th June 1885 (same date on the Barnes family tree on Ancestry), registration district Aylesbury. The registration was in the qtr Apr/May/Jun 1973, Vol 6a, page number 945.
If you sent for this certificate it would give her husbands details (even if widowed), and her place of birth, which I feel would confirm that you have the correct Kate.
Kath
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/wave thanks Kath
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no personal thanks was necessary! to be honest, I just shot out things in the dark, it was karen & Katherine and Jap and everyone else that filled up all the gaps! As I said, a team effort, and it was great to be a part of the famous Rootschatters! :)
Any more skeletons Jaymee??? Please say you have more? ;D ;D
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ROFL
Daisy your evil! I will curse your tree to drama if you don't behave!
Jay
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Just think yourself lucky that you have been able to break down this brick wall....I have one I don't think I'll ever get beyond :( so i don't think any amount of cursing could make my tree any more dramatic. I wish it would!!!!!!!
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I just wondered if anyone noticed that:
Ada Bennett is first at 1 years old surnamed WHITE
and her sister daisy is at 3 WHITE also.
Until they become Bennett in the next census.
You know what that means friends: My grandfathers name wouldnt be William Bennett at all But Thomas White.
Added to say: Unless Mary (insert favorite lastname) knew she had fathered her two last daughters to the lodger, but named them white to hide it until she could marry him.
But as we can never know that I think we have to take White.
Thoughts, more asprin
Jay
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yep double
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yes, hadn't thought about that...you could get Ada's birth cert as well...isn't she your grandfather's line anyway?
You'll see there who was put down as the father, but yes, it would be Thomas White. What a patchwork quilt of a line!!!!
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I think for sure she would have the birthname White as that is what she has when she is 1.
Just building the branch of the tree now, added the husbands of what me and my hubby are calling "The Black widow" of Middlesex counties.
At this rate i could have a relative in every home in the area.
Jay
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lol...
I wonder if she killed any of them off????
What an amzaing character to have. If the trail we have found is correct though, it is rather sad...she appears to have been illigimate herself, with her mother being born in a workhouse...you'd say she was a survivor eh?
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Just bookmarking so I can read the whole thread tomorrow. Sounds very intriguing.
Lizzie
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Ada is 1 and born Hounslow in 1891 - consistent with either of these birth registrations:
Ada WHITE Mar 1890 Brentford 3a 62
Ada Rose WHITE Jun 1890 Brentford 3a 126
Anna :)
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Just for completeness ....
The illegitimate Mary Jane HAWKINS (registered Mar qtr 1860 Petworth; bap 30 Mar 1860, Petworth Sussex, mother Mary HAWKINS) isn't Jaymee's - Jaymee's Mary is the daughter of Josiah HAWKINS & Phoebe CHEATER.
From the IGI ...
Josiah HAWKINS m Phoebe CHEATER, 28 Sep 1849, Pulborough Sussex
They had (all Sussex):
Mary HAWKINS bap 28 Jan 1851 Fittleworth (registered Mar qtr Chichester)
Ann Maria HAWKINS bap 12 Mar 1854 Fittleworth
Jane HAWKINS bap 20 Apr 1856 Yapton
Thomas HAWKINS bap 18 Dec 1859 Climping
Amelia HAWKINS bap 27 Sep 1863 Fittleworth
Julia Fanny HAWKINS bap 31 Mar 1867 Fittleworth
Harry HAWKINS bap 30 Jul 1871 Fittleworth
JAP
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aHa...thats the confusion setting in again. thanks Jap for putting that straight :)
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Hi Everyone
This is my first time on RootsChat I just this minute registered.
I received an email late last night (off-line from this forum) from a colleague of yours. JAP
She thought I might be interested in this thread. She was right!! Following is my reply to her last night. Note I have still not absorbed the thread details yet, but I think I get the drift.
"Hi JAP
Wow that seems extremely interesting . I have written a "book" on The Hawkins family (on a CD). I would have over 500 descendants on my list, but Mary HAWKINS was a bit of a blocker for me. Here is what I have to date:
Mary Hawkins c. 28/1/1851 (father Josiah mother Phoebe CHEATER [my ggparents]) with 2 sets of children;
The first lot are born in Pulborough, no recorded father: Charles HAWKINS b. 22 Dec 1873 [I have birth cert} & Ellen [Nelly] HAWKINS b. Mar quart 1875;
The 2nd lot are from marriage on 27 Oct 1875 [I have marr cert] to James ROE (ROWE) : Horace ROE b. Pulborough in Dec 1876 & Alice ROE b. Byworth in Mar 1880. There is possibly another child, but I have not followed up on this yet { Births Mar 1879 Roe Arthur Petworth 2b 347; Death Mar 1879 Petworth 2b 225}
In 1881 it gets interesting: James ROE (ROW) is a 41-year-old married labourer boarding in Byworth with Jane Moore & family, while his wife Mary is a housekeeper! for Caesar Augustus EADE in Fittleworth (her home town) and lives there with all 4 children. This is where I came to an end with Mary HAWKINS and her children, although I think found her 15-year-old son Horace [ROE but called HAWKINS] in Aldershot in 1891:
In 1891 living at Aldershot Stubbs, "The Alms Inn", Aldershot, Hampshire (RG12/564 ED7 F77 P45-46 SN302): John Saunders Head 35 b. Oxted, Surrey Ag Lab; Caroline F Wife 24 b. Limpsfield, Surrey; Walter H son 8; Sarah E dau 7; James son 2; Arthur P son 1; Horace Hawkins 15 Servant Domestic Gardener b. Pulborough.
As for James ROE, I found him in 1891 living at Glatting Farm, Sutton (RG12/832 Ed6 F78 P4 SN19)
James Rowe Boarder Marr 57 Stockman b. Sea Bognor, Sussex@ John Mills & family, Farmer.
Perhaps this is his death record also: Deaths Sep 1895 Rowe James 62 Petworth 2b 203
I have quickly dashed off this e-mail. I'll read the posts on RootsChat in more detail over the next few days- perhaps I can register on it and join the discussion.
Thanks for getting in contact. Needless to say I would be happy to send a gedcom file with more info to anyone who is interested in this line.
Regards
from Cockatoo, Victoria, Australia"
When I've analyse all the posts I'll be in a better position to give more comments if I can
Regards
dennisrichards49
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Thankyou Dennis for joining us here.
Mary Hawkins is my Great Great Grandmother (proberly) on both my Father's Father's Side and my Father's Mother's side.
Thanks to Daisy i am now in contact with The grandson of Kenedy O'brian Morris (the famous) who is still alive and the grandson (dont want to say his name unless he wants it known) is going to go see him tomorrow and swap cookies for info :).
now he did tell me this though:
Kate eade's mum was Mary Hawkins, born in 1853... she was married to Ceasar Augustus Eade
Born 1856, dies 1885
He was an aggricultural labourer... oh
Mary Hawkins from Pulborough, Sussex
but he said:
Quote:
"I did see a line re a Kennedy Morris... That's my Grandad :)
(Actually, it's Kenedy O'Brien Morris and he was named after the 2 Doctors who delivered him - Dr Kennedy and Dr O'Brien)."
Could the doctor be Millie's father?
Another thing was he thought he had seen that photo of Kate before.
This person is A great grandson of Kate Eade like i am her great granddaughter.
Jaymee
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Jaymee, I am delighted for you! That's great news that you are meeting up with the grandson! How exciting!
Good luck...and let us know the outcome, and the end of the story...
I'm quite sad really...missing the thread :)
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i am not meeting with the grandson, he is going to visit his grandfather millie's son, but i have "meet up" with the grandson via email if thats what u mean.
Added to say:
SOrry that post sounded a little blunt daisy :), it just came out that way because i was hurrying and Rootschat is running so slow!
Jay
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Hi jaymee
Mary Hawkins younger brother was Harry Hawkins (b. 25 May 1871 in Fittleworth). He is my great grandfather. I have his picture. Another sibling was Julia Fanny Hawkins b. 31 Mar 1867. These last 2 both ended up in Carmarthenshire & Glamorganshire in Wales & I can follow them almost completely to the present day. I can share this withyou.
Mary & Harry's father Josiah HAWKINS (your 3GGF & my 2GGF) was a 60-year-old widowed chimney sweep when he died when he fell from a cart (drunk?) on 30 June 1889 in Pulborough. Their mother Phoebe (CHEATER) died at the age of 49 from Enteric fever on 8 Feb 1873 (along with their daughter Amelia age 9 on 28 Feb 1873).
I have certificates for all of these events.
We must stay in touch so that I can supplement my Mary Hawkins branch downwards & you can add to it upwards.
Some other points:
- It has to be a record that Mary HAWKINS had 5 partners: un-named, ROE, EADES, WHITE & BENNETT. I can't quite work out why in 1901 when Mary was with her final? spouse Wm. BENNETT, Kate was correctly referred to as a Step-dau (father Caesar EADE) whilst Daisy & Ada were not (after all wasn't their father Thomas WHITE?)
- Mary's son Horace ROE was referred to on 1891 census as Horace HAWKINS. He was then 15 years old and working at Aldershot Stubbs, "The Alms Inn", Aldershot. This is only a mile or so from Ash, Surrey where his half sisters Kate, Daisy & Ada were born. Perhaps for a short time Kate & her 9 years older brother Horace lived under the same roof and used the surname EADE as their mother did. Then, maybe, in later years Kate mistakenly thought that this older half brother "Horace Eade" was the name of her father
Clearly there is still lots more to know and I want to stay in touch with you and others on this list.
So for now its 12:40 am where I live so Goodnight (or Good morning)
Dennis
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What an amazing thread...this is what I love so much about Roots Chat. A fantastic mystery sorted out, and connections to other family members made. Perfect! Many thanks to all concerned for a very entertaining 30 minutes' read. In awe of the work that went into it. :D
You certainly have a fascinating great great grandmother, Jay. I like the soubriquet The Black Widow! Still, poor woman, if she didn't do them in, that means she lost 5 loves during what must have been a very hard life.
By the way, could William Bennett, the lodger in 1891, have been 46 instead of 76? That would agree with him being 57 ten years later in the 1901 census. 4 and 7 both have that sort of / line in them, and they could perhaps be mistaken for each other.
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That's a good point Aniseed...I have attached the bit from the census, and included other ages as well, to show, how they all seemed to have been "marked off"...William Bennett's age is the last clear one at the bottom :) What does anyone else think? What is the age of the man listed as labourer? (Can harldy be 76 surely????)
I am dead jealous of Jaymee...what an amazing discovery about her family...and still people around to tell her more.
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It does look like a 7, but maybe it was the enumerator's mistake when he copied the information (if that's how it works). It's a wonderful story, the sort of thing that would make an amazing film. I'm just glad I understood it by the end, because at the beginning I was well and truly lost!
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Hi Jaymee...
have been pondering this mystery...(nothing better to do :) )
My opinion is this: I don't think Kennedy O'Brien Morris was named after the father of the 3 children. (I may have already said this before). If Millie was so sure, that her mother didn't want her to know who her father is...her mother would have left no clues. According to the descendant of Kennedy O'Brien Morris, he was named after the two doctors that delivered him. A possiblity.
But I think, Millie may have hoped the former was true, and that it was a clue, and so a story was told...family stories can be very much like chinese whispers.
You have said yourself, that her boss was only ever referred to as Mister/Master...also, in the photo thread, you said, once they found out she was pregnant she was cruelly dismissed. Not the best thing to happen...and not something you would forgive or forget.
So, I now I think, that the father of the 3 children could well have been the father of Millie, but I really don't think it's anything to do with Kennedy etc. Besides which, if the Kennedy o Morris birth is correct, he was born in 1923 in Aylesbury some ten years after Millie had been born...so not only has she moved, but it is also a long time to hold on to a fond memory...
I think the 1911 census will reveal your family secret. She would have been working for that family then...there would be no way of proving it for a fact...but it would be interesting to find out more about that family wouldn't it?
You asked in an earlier post if one of the 2 doctors could be the father...not likely...but you would need to find out from your new family member ( ;)) when and where Kenedy O'Brian was born.
Kate married Arthur in Hackney (/), and their first child together was born there...the 1901 census has her in Hounslow...so the 1911 census? where will she be then?
Poor Millie...it must have been hard for her....she would have thought that those 3 children were her half-siblings...
Just my thoughts for the evening!
Goodnight :)
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Just a few more thoughts.
1. Jaymee, you say that "the grandson", with whom you are in email contact, is going to visit his grandfather - one post says that "the grandfather" is Millie's son but an earlier post indicates that "the grandfather" is Kate's son ... We need to be very careful about revealing details of living persons here. IF "the grandfather" is Kate's son (K.O'B.M) and still living, then his privacy should be respected.
2. There seems to be lots of family folklore some of which conflicts. For instance, Millie had certain beliefs about the reason for her younger brother's given names; now we hear a different story. There was the story about Kate being "cruelly dismissed" when it was found she was pregnant. There was the story about Kate going into service at age 14 but at age 16 she's still at home (did she have an occupation in 1901?). There was the story about Kate being about 18 in the photo but also that she was pregnant with Millie (who was born Dec 1912) at the time - which would make Kate (b Jun qtr 1885) about 27. Family folklore is often far from reliable, and our opinions ...
3. More information could possibly be elicited to lend weight or otherwise to the story about naming a child after two doctors who delivered the child. For instance, was it reputed to have been a particularly difficult birth (two doctors in attendance ...)? At that time, were there doctors of those surnames in the area where the child was born? Any clues on that child's birth certificate?
4. Might "the grandfather" know the name of the family for whom his (?)mother/grandmother (whichever it is), Kate, worked? Kate (EADE) MORRIS did not die until 1973. Knowing the name of the family is not going to solve the mystery of Millie's father but would be just one more piece of information.
5. The Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN family might be a complete red herring - but, in case it is not, it seems to me that it is always worth remembering that Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN was not just the name of the paterfamilias but also of his eldest son. IF further leads to the MARTYN family emerge, it might be worth looking at the 1922 divorce proceedings of KO MARTYN against his wife Alice
6. Jaymee, you have indicated on the photo thread that we have been looking at scans of copies of the photo. It would seem to be a good idea to ask your aunt to search for the original in case it shows the name of the photographic studio which might give some clues. Also whether a copy of the note without water damage can be found.
7. The full birth certificate for Millie, when it arrives, might have some useful clues.
8. Do you have Millie's marriage certificate?
9. And finally, it really would be interesting to see the birth cert of Philip J EADE, mother's name EADE (b Sep qtr & d Dec qtr Hackney 1911) - was this another child of Kate's? IF it was, and depending on his birthdate, she might well have been pregnant and not working as a nanny at the time of the 1911 census ...
JAP
PS: Like Dennis, I did wonder why Kate was recorded as EADE and as William BENNETT's Stepdaughter in 1901 but Daisy and Ada were recorded as BENNETT and as William BENNETT's Daughters ...
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Hi everyone
Jaymee answered a query of mine about Mary's daughters Daisy & Ada WHITE?BENNETT? off-line; thus
So I think the reason that Ada and Daisy are Named Bennett and not Whites, is that Mary fathered them to the loger Bennett (76 we think is a trascribion error). But She didnt give them their real fathers name until she was out of scrutiny from Thomas White.
She has been so clear to name each child it's father's names, why does she change?
I thought I'd like others to ponder this if they wish (although most may be exhausted with this thread going by the many posts to date). My response was:
As to your theory, I'm not so sure:
On the 1891 census Thomas White is already missing. Remember Daisy was born in Ash, Surrey where Mary & Thomas White married. William Bennett was never there; he was always around Hounslow/Sunbury. Almost certainly she later married her lodger William BENNETT who in 1891 was aged about 46 not 76! Enumerator's error!
Maybe Thomas White was indeed the father of Daisy & Ada but later (and by 1901) William Bennett had adopted them (formally or informally) under his name. This still allows Mary to be true to her principle of naming the father with her children's surnames.
There is an Ada White birth in Brentford (ie Hounslow) that fits: Births Mar 1890 WHITE Ada Brentford 3a 62 (as posted earlier by avm228)
& a death of a Thomas White:
either:Deaths Mar 1890
White Thomas 59 Brentford 3a 50
or Deaths Dec 1890
White Thomas 60 Brentford 3a 39
I cannot find a suitable entry for daughter Daisy around 1888 in Ash, Surrey (Farnham, Farnborough) with any suitable surname. Can anyone else?
Of course this is an important debate for Jaymee- whose grandparent (on this side) is the father of Ada; either Thomas White or William Bennett
Whatever the case as I have said to Jay it looks pretty certain we are 3rd cousins once removed.
Thanks to JAP for getting me involved.
Dennis
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Hello Dennis
There is a Daisy White birth registration also in Brentford, March 1890. In volume 3a, page 133.
Linda
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Just a few more thoughts.
It would be interesting to find out what happened to all of the children of Mary HAWKINS.
We've not traced the first two children of Mary HAWKINS - Charles HAWKINS (1874) and Ellen (Nelly) HAWKINS (1875).
Or Horace ROE (1876 - though Dennis believes he has been found as Horace HAWKINS) or Alice ROE (1880)
Or Archie EADE (1881) or Rose EADE (1881).
All the above birth certs (and also possibly that of Arthur ROE b & d 1879) would be of interest.
Also the birth cert of Kate EADE (1885).
And the birth certs of Daisy WHITE and Ada WHITE would be of interest.
As would the marriage certs of Mary HAWKINS/EADE.
Marriage 1875, Mary HAWKINS and James ROE.
Marriage 1886, Mary EADE and Thomas WHITE (possibly a bigamous marriage as James ROE still seems to be living).
Marriage 1898, Mary EADE and William BENNETT (probably a legal marriage as both James ROE and Thomas WHITE seem to have passed away).
And the marriage cert of Millie EADE would be of interest.
As I said earlier, a win at the lottery would be good so that all the certs could be purchased!
JAP
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Thanks Jap, just doing some more research and ordering some certs.
Will let everyone know when they arrive.
Jay
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Hi JAL; we'd have to have a whip-around to afford all those certs!!
Here is my first 7 pounds worth: This is the Marriage Cert details of Mary Hawkins & James Roe:
Marriages Dec 1875 Roe James & Mary Hawkins Thakeham 2b 629
Marriage at Register Office in the District of Thakeham, County of Sussex No 11 on 27 Oct 1875 James Roe, of full age, bachelor, labourer of Pulborough; Father: James Roe (deceased), Shoemaker. Mary Hawkins, of full age, spinster, Pulborough; Father: Josiah Hawkins, Thatcher. Married in Register Office after Certificate before me James Henry Reed, Registrar. Witnesses are The mark of X George Smith and Elizabeth L Gorey; William Moate, Deputy Supt and Wm Thos Sandford Superintendent Registrar
Here's a question that's been bugging me since I read all this. Mary EADE (an assumed surname from her deceased partner Caesar) married to Thomas WHITE (in Dec 1886) - I get this. But why did she marry William BENNETT (in Sep 1898) also as Mary EADE ? Shouldn't she have been Mary WHITE?
I'm thinking it was the same problem as when she was married to James ROE- remember he was still alive when she changed partners taking on Caesar EADE's surname. Perhaps Thomas WHITE was still alive also when Mary got the urge to move on to her 5th partner! I don't think we know that Thomas WHITE was certainly dead in Sep 1898 do we? Again the certificates are crucial to hopefully answer these questions.
Dennis
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So, Ada & Daisy appeared to have their births registered at the same time? Mar Qtr, 1890 Brentford?
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JAP, I'd had the same thoughts about tracing the children of Mary and found a couple of possible death registrations if Mary registered them under the surname she was using at the time?
Alice Eade 3 june qtr 1883 Farnham vol 2a pg 68
Charles Eade 10 sept qtr 1884 Farnham vol 2a pg 61
:-\
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Well done Osprey. You may be onto something. ie Charles Hawkins b. 22 Dec 1873 = Charles Eade d. Sep 1884 age 10 ; Alice Roe b. Mar 1880= d. Alice Eade June 1883 age 3; bothing dying at a time when their mother Mary HAWKINS who had previously married a ROE is calling herself Mary EADE ; I like it.
As they are potentially both relatives of mine I will take a punt and order the death certificates. I should hear back in about 2 weeks time.
Thanks
Dennis
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not having any success with the others apart from a possible marriage for Archibald Eade dec qtr 1902 Brentford vol 3a pg 305, but can't see him in 1901.
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On one of Ancestry's census, the one for Mary White (1891), one of the children's names was mistranscribed. Ancestry had it as Aveline, and it should have been Archie. But there was someone who corrected it, and I have sent them a message, (They were interested in the White's) to view this thread...they are based in Canada.
So may get a few answers or help from them.
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A picture tells a thousand words!!! {I hope the picture is attached and displayed- I can't see it in the preview screen}
I believe this is a summary of where this thread has led us. It includes info from some Ancestry.com charts [namely: Peron Family Tree (Owner: rodneyperon); Pizzey/Halfhide/South/Argent Family Tree (Owner: lallygirl1); Wincomb family tree (Owner: StephenWincomb); Barnes Family Tree (Owner: thetomdog)]
Are there any mistakes?
Dennis
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Thanks for posting that Dennis.
A lot of hard work went into that.
And i can't see any mistakes, sorry if i appear absent, i am just absorbing the info, making sense of it and waiting to see if Kenedy (son of Kate and Morris) has any certs. or info to add to the debate.
But reading and watching with interest, just haven't got anything new to add at this time, but will share as soon as i get more info.
Jay
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Looks great....makes sense of everything as well....
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Wow Dennis that family tree is great. Did you draw it yourself or use a program? I'm looking for something like that to set out different branches of my tree.
Lizzie
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The chart is drawn using GenoPro2007
Get it! I find it it invaluable
Dennis
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Thanks Dennis, I'll check it out right now.
Lizzie
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Hi All,
WHY is my reply constantly crashing????
I use TMG - The Master Genealogist - which has an excellent charting facility.
Many other Genie programs also have excellent charting facilities.
Most Genie programs are pretty good.
Even some aficionadoes of TMG (and TMG aficionadoes are very committed people indeed!! - it's a top program) sometimes prefer other programs specifically for charting.
JAP
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Hello all,
The 1911 census is open...
I've looked at the prices per view of the census records, its quite expensive, in order to reduce the cost could someone happen to have a calculated guess of which ones of these Kate Eades that I should try?
Moderator comment: image and link removed. Posting images and screenshots from the 1911 census site contravenes the terms and conditions. Please see here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,349153.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,349156.0.html
thank you again for your help
Jay
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was wondering if we'd hear anything from you soon :)
I would go for the Kate Eade, b.1886 ? District Thakeham....or the one above it, Horsham...the others have the ages too far off. It's hard to tell isn't it, because its the area they live in, NOT the area they were born in that is there.
You could always view the transcript first, bit cheaper that way if you are unsure.
Daisy :)
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You can limit the search by including the name of someone else you'd expect to see in the household, if there's anyone else that you know will be there. You can also search by place of birth, if you know it. It might help you to narrow it down a bit. Too expensive to go fishing! Good luck, and let us know what you find.
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Hi Jay,
Curious to know if you have found any information on the 1911 yet.
Karen :)
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You can limit the search by including the name of someone else you'd expect to see in the household, if there's anyone else that you know will be there. ....
Does that mean that a search could be made for (say) our old friends Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN snr & jnr (sorry to harp on about them :) ) limited by the surname EADE in the same household?
Or that a search could be made for (say) Mary BENNETT limited by the surname EADE in the same household?
JAP
PS. All my people had arrived in the Antipodes between 1841 and 1876 so I haven't had a personal interest in subsequent censuses.
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You can limit the search by including the name of someone else you'd expect to see in the household, if there's anyone else that you know will be there. ....
Does that mean that a search could be made for (say) our old friends Kennedy O'Brien MARTYN snr & jnr (sorry to harp on about them :) ) limited by the surname EADE in the same household?
Or that a search could be made for (say) Mary BENNETT limited by the surname EADE in the same household?
JAP
You can search for a particular person: forename, surname, date of birth, place of birth, place where living and as an extra data field you can also specify the name of a person you'd expect to see in the same household. I've found that the less information I give the more likely I am to find my person, since all the above might be different from the last information they gave on a census! But you could certainly search for, for example, Mary Bennett and include the name of an Eade sibling you might hope would be in the household. I'm not sure if you can just add a surname for the other person. I'll try hop off to 1911 and try it...
Yep, just tried searching for one of my own with her full name, no other info apart from the surname of someone else that I know was in the house with her, and she came up, just the one result as well, so it is theoretically possible. I haven't got time to do it right now, a quick try searching for a Bennett with an Eade in the household just came up with a couple of institutions in Camberwell and Thornbury Gloucestershire. Searching for Martin (with an 'i') with an Eade in the house came up with an institution in Dover. Neither of those seems likely to me, but I can do more specific searching if it looks like it would help.
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Hi Aniseed,
Thanks for that!
I asked because, on this thread, we have Kate's surname as EADE but her given name might well be Kate or Katherine or Catherine - therefore just the (fairly unusual) surname would seem to be a better bet. And either of the Kennedy MARTYNs might come up with various forenames (Kennedy, Kennedy O'Brien, Kennedy O, KO, etc). Etc ..
At the simplest, we were seeking, I think, an EADE nursemaid in a MARTYN household, or an EADE daughter or step-daughter in a BENNETT household - in the London or very much wider London area ...
Hi Jay,
Sorry to butt in on the 1911 given that I don't have a clue about it! Sorry!
But, leaving aside the 1911, has Millie's full birth cert turned up?
Regards to all,
JAP
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Hey everyone, sorry i havent been here for a little while, was just waiting for the certs to arrive. which they did today with interesting results.
I havent brought credits to view the 911 census get because i didnt like the matches.
But Millie B's Birth cert arrived today and lists the following details:
When and where born:
21 December 1912, Maternity Hospital 271 Mare Street, Hackney
Name if any:
Millie Barbara
Name and Surname of Father:
BLANK
Name surname and maiden name of mother:
Kate Eade (Domestic Servant) of 7 Montague Road, Acton
Occupation of Father:
BLANK
Signature, description and residence of informant:
Kate Eade, Mother, Maternity Hospital 271 Mare Road Hackney
When registered
31st December 1912
When I look up the options in the 1911 census for that address, it only lists EVEN numbers in MONTAGUE GARDEN ACTON, why cant I see the listing for number 7?
Does anyone know if this would have been a wealthy area in 1911/1912 because she is listed as a domestic with this address and I am wondering if this could be the address of Millie's Father.
As always thank you for your time and thoughts.
I can scan the original cert if needed.
Jay
PS: JAP you are definately not harping on about the Martyn's because finding the name of Millie's reall Father is my true goal.
PSS: Aagain I am sorry I havent been back until now, real life issues have been thick on the ground
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Jay
When you have listed the cert, you say that it's Montague Road,...then further down below, you say Montague Garden...
Which is it?
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When I search for Montague in Acton, the census gives the results as Montague Garden
When I search for "7 Montague Road, Acton" in Google Maps I get 7 Montague Gardens Ealing, London W5, UK (near Acton)
But the Cert says 7 Montague Road, Acton
Hope it is clearer now.
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Okay, well, I viewed Montague ROAD...number 7...but neither of them came up as Acton...(This makes the serach capabilities really cr*p) so I put in Garden...and the only one that came up was number 4, again no match.
None of the families seemed to fit, no yong kids etc...and no Kate Eade...
However, I did fine Rose Eade...and she was working fairly close by. (b,1884, Farnham Surrey)
The search on 1911 seems kooked anyway, as when I put in Eade, not a single first name beginning with K came up!
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and there is always this thought:
"9. And finally, it really would be interesting to see the birth cert of Philip J EADE, mother's name EADE (b Sep qtr & d Dec qtr Hackney 1911) - was this another child of Kate's? IF it was, and depending on his birthdate, she might well have been pregnant and not working as a nanny at the time of the 1911 census ..." Added, (sorry) from a post made by JAP
If Millie was born 21st December 1912, that picture with the kids may possibly have been taken at an earlier time...
She certainly doesn't look pregnant in the picture!
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Have a search on historicaldirectories.org for 'Montague Road' in the London area.
I had a quick search and for the Kelly's Directory of Ealing, Acton and Chiswick of 1911 had this entry:
MONTAGUE ROAD
West Ealing W
East Side:
7- Heditch, Wm Charles
That might be a lead for you?
acceber
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MONTAGUE ROAD
West Ealing W
East Side:
7- Heditch, Wm Charles
I just searched for and found in Brentford William Charles Heditch, born 1877, but no result when searching for him with an Eade in the same household, unfortunately.
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Anymore news on this one?
We have established who Kate is, but no closer to finding out who she was working for, or the father of Millie?
Jay, I'll send you via email the census transcriptions that I did view...just so that you can rule them off. Can you Pm me your email again?
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being at a bit of a loose end for a mystery, have been poking around on this thread again.
I have done a few searched on the 1911 census...haven't found Kate Eade for sure anyway, there is one possibility. Which I'll put up in a minute.
But regarding the Kennedy O'Brien Martyn's...I found them on the 1911 census, and regret to say, no Kate Eade..also thogh, there are only two children at home, Kennedy O'Brien jnr aged 14 (he's the oldest boy) and Agnes who is 11, no sign of the younger son, Brian i think he was.
I then did a couple of other searches, playing around with doctor as occupation, Kennedy as first name - nothing, Obrien as a surname - nothing Kennedy as a last name, 4 results showed up, only 2 in London area: John Kennedy - Bermondsey and a David Given Kennedy - Hampstead.
Another search I did was Eade & occupation Nursemaid...that came up with a Nellie Eade, b.1888, living in Kingston, Surrey
Okay, on Kate/Katherine Eade
katherine Eade - servant - single 24 - b. London Hammersmith - working for Henry Arthur Dowsing living Fulham, London
kate Eade - Boarder - single - 22 - b. Whistable, Kent living at Epsom, Surrey
Kate Eade - servant - single 25 - b.Blackfriars London, working in Thakeham, Sussex (interestingly with a Mary Eade, aged 27, born same place)
So, at least these can be looked at and eliminated if required! (I know I'm mad...but I had these credits left, and didn't have anyone that I could look up of my own...and I only viewed the transcripts :()
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Hi everyone
Just reporting back after arrival of some certificates.
- I can report, unfortunately, that the following is not "our" Mary (nee Hawkins): Deaths Dec 1910 BENNETT Mary age 61 Brentford 3a 67
- This is right though: Deaths Mar 1885 EADE Caesar age 29 Farnham 2a 67; Details are: Regn District = Farnham; Sub-District = Frimley; Counties of Surrey & Southampton. No. 328 Died 17th January 1885 at The Common, Ash, Surrey, RSD. Caesar Eade, age 29, Labourer. Cause of Death; Phthisis 12 months; Certified by W W Young MD. Informant: John Dougherty, Present at the Death; The Common, Ash. Registered 20th January 1885 Geo. Day, Registrar.
- This is probably right Death Cert for Mary's first child {ie Charles Hawkins b. 22 Dec 1873 to unknown father, I have this cert also} and a bit intruiging: Deaths Sep 1884 Eade Charles 10 Farnham 2a 61. Details are: Regn District = Farnham; Sub-District = Frimley; Counties of Surrey & Southampton. No. 75 Died 26th June 1884 at Ash, RSD. Charles Eade, age 10, Infant child of a labourer. Accidental Death; Certificate received from Owen C Ward, Deputy Coroner for West Surrey, Inquest held 28th June 1884. Registered 3rd July 1884 Geo. Day, Registrar. According to the West Surrey Family History Society it is highly unlikely that any Coroner's Inquest documents survive. What is intruiging is that the area of Ash Common where the family lived was then crisscrossed with rifle ranges (and still is today: the Ash Common Firing Ranges) . Maps show these ranges even in 1878. It is possible that young Charles strayed into this area and was accidentally shot - It must have been a real tempation for a 10 year-old to get up close!- pure speculation, but with this family almost anything can be expected; wait for the next dot point
- This is probably right Death Cert for Mary's 4th child {ie Alice Roe b. Mar 1880 in Byworth and recorded as this in 1881 when family was first seen living with Caesar Eade}. Details are: Deaths Jun 1883 EADE Alice age 3 Farnham 2a 68. Details are: Regn District = Farnham; Sub-District = Frimley; Counties of Surrey & Southampton. No. 81 Died 8th May 1883 at The Common, Ash, Surrey, RSD. Alice Eade, age 3, Daughter of Caesar Eade, a labourer. Cause of Death; Marasmus, 12 days; Certified by W W Young MD. Registered 8th May1883 Geo. Day, Registrar. This is sad as the definition of Marasmus is A progressive wasting of the body, occurring chiefly in young children and associated with insufficient intake or malabsorption of food. Perhaps the little girl was starving rather than ill. Also of course Alice's father is not Caesar as written on the certificate.
As we can see 3 tragic deaths in 1 year and 8 months. The last, husband Caesar, just 6 months before Mary Hawkins gives birth to our infamous Kate Eade. So at the time of Kate's birth Mary has:
no Breadwinner;
a daughter Ellen Hawkins [Nelly] age 10;
a son Horace Roe aged 8;
a son Archie Eade age 3;
a daughter Rose Eade age 1.
Hat's off to Mary and those surviving children. Remember 2 husbands are yet to appear and 2 children yet to be born: Daisy & Ada White!!!
The early scenario that perhaps Mary HAWKINS was "a black widow" bumping off successive husbands is the exact opposite of what she needed; a fit bread-winning partner.
Dennis
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What an interesting post, thank Dennis for giving us more background to the mystery! Hard to think of a child dying of starvation....
the other scenario "malabsorbtion of food" could that be something like a celiac, or allergy's to food etc? She died in 1883, when "father" still alive.
But yes, Mary must have been a strong woman! What a hard and difficult life...:)
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Hi again
I'm on another trail- this time Daisy White [or later Bennett]; Kate Eade's younger half-sister.
Remember in 1891 living at Bath Road, Heston, Hounslow (RG12; Piece: 1025; Folio 14; Page 26;Ed16; SN178)
Mary White Head Marr 36 b. Petworth; Archie Eade son 10; Rose Eade dau 6; Catherine Eade dau 5; Daisy White dau 3 (all b. Ash, Surrey); Ada White dau 1 b. Hounslow; William Bennett Lodger single 76 [sic] labourer b. Sunbury
When Kate Eade married Arthur Henry Morris on 13 Dec 1913 the witnesses were Daisy & W Allen.
Someone speculated that this Daisy was probably Kate's half sister Daisy White (or Bennett). This seemed a reasonable "working proposition" at the time.
Indeed there is a marriage in the district where Daisy was born and the family once lived which fits: Marriages Dec 1909 ALLEN Walter Ernest & BENNETT Daisy Louisa Farnham 2a 220.
However, this Daisy Louisa BENNETT appears to be the one who was born with this exact name in Mar 1885 Farnham 2a 105. Not one who was born about 1888.
So....This can't be "our" Daisy for 2 reasons ; 1. She'd be older than her half sister Kate and 2. Kate was born on 6 Jun 1885 - so not biologically possible, even for a mother as resilient as Mary HAWKINS!
The problem is I cannot find a Daisy (Louisa) BENNETT b. 1885 on 1891 or 1901 that fits.
I can't find any other suitable Daisy Bennett (or White) marriage to a W Allen. Perhaps the witnesses are indeed the couple above and who got married in Farnham (around Ash, Surrey) and were family friends; making the name Daisy Louisa Bennett a coincidence?
What do others think?
Dennis
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Hi Dennis,
I agree with you, that Walter and Daisy Allen are family friends, as there is the birth registration in Farnham for Daisy White in the June qtr 1888, no middle name of Louisa but the right time period. Still it would be nice to find the Daisy Louisa born 1885 to eliminate her!!
Have being looking for a Daisy on the 1911 census with a birth place of Ash, but to no avail as yet!
Regards,
Kath
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Indeed there is a marriage in the district where Daisy was born and the family once lived which fits: Marriages Dec 1909 ALLEN Walter Ernest & BENNETT Daisy Louisa Farnham 2a 220.
However, this Daisy Louisa BENNETT appears to be the one who was born with this exact name in Mar 1885 Farnham 2a 105. Not one who was born about 1888.
...
The problem is I cannot find a Daisy (Louisa) BENNETT b. 1885 on 1891 or 1901 that fits.
...
Hi Dennis,
Good thinking!
I agree with you too i.e. that it is just a coincidence. It just shows that one can't be too careful!
In 1891, Daisy L BENNETT aged 6 is with parents Fred. (a Bootmaker) & Louisa BENNETT and siblings in Aldershot, Hampshire born Aldershot (Aldershot was in the Farnham registration district). And still in Aldershot in 1901 - aged 15 with widowed mother and siblings.
JAP
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I think Daisy Louisa can definitely be ruled out as the witness, as she married George Carr, not Walter Ernest Allen.
Have found Daisy Louisa Carr, birthplace Aldershot, born 1886, she is with George in the district of Farnham, on the 1911 census.
Back to the drawing board for the witnesses!
Kath
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Just a thought, if Daisy was registered at birth as Daisy WHITE, wouldn't she have to get married under that name as well?
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Just a thought, if Daisy was registered at birth as Daisy WHITE, wouldn't she have to get married under that name as well?
This family is never consistent with the surnames it uses. Isn't that what makes it so interesting?
- Her younger sister Ada White married as Ada Bennett
- Indeed her mother Mary Hawkins who had married James ROE, missed out on marrying Caesar EADE, but married Thomas WHITE as Mary Eade and then married William Bennett also as Mary Eade!!!
- Her first son Charles Hawkins died as Charles Eade.
- One son Horace ROE is on the census as Horace Hawkins at one point.
- The daughter Alice ROE died as Alice Eade (and the cert. wrongly gives Caesar Eade as the father).
- Later Millie Barbara Eade married as Millie Barbara Morris.
Dennis
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there is the birth registration in Farnham for Daisy White in the June qtr 1888
Thanks for finding that Kath- I'll purchase this Cert.
Dennis
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Dear Jaymee
I have been looking for my Aunt Barbara who is your Gran. I did try to contact you through Genes, but no luck so far. My Mum Lucy Pizzey was Aunt Barbara's sister in law. After Aunt Barbara and Steven, Micheal Rodney and Joan emigrated we lost touch, which I would really like to amend. I have certs but not all only what I know about and I might be able to answer some of your question's "not a lot" and you can answer mine. Kate Eade was a a relative of to Uncle Ernest. Aunt Barbara and Uncle Ernest divorced, I have their marriage cert and his death, and Kate Eades marriage, and the children of Mary, all as far as I know. Not to much more on Aunt Barbara as I said we lost touch. Can you please get in touch with me.
Brenda
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Hi Everyone
My Mum was Lucy May Pizzey, one off Ada's children, there was Thomas George stillborn 1910, Kathleen Mary (Aunt Kitty) born 22 Oct 1911 Died 25 Apr 2004 suffering Senile Dementia, Ernest Albert Brn 29 Jan 1913 died 29 Dec 1972, married Barbara Millie Morris 1938,
Albert Reuben 13 Jan 1916 died 5 May 1922 just after my Mother was born 3 March 1922 died from Cancer on 13 January 1988, Horace Jack brn 25 July 1919 died 18 Oct 1929 from Diphtheria, Eileen Gladys brn 6 March 1928 still living, Margaret Rose brn 16 June 1931 died 2 April 1938 from Meningitis, Sheila Mary Aunt Sheila's cert has taken a walk for now she is still living, see her when I can. Mary was born Hawkins, married Thomas White 1886, William Bennett 1898 down as a widow, I don't have Ceaser Augustus Eade's marriage cert to her as yet, trying to find it still. Ada and Daisy when born White and was adopted by William Bennett. Daisy I was told was jilted at the alter which sent her over the edge and ended up in an asylum. Ada (My Gran) Married Mum's Dad George Pizzey, then on his death, he wanted his brother Thomas Bert Pizzey, to take care of Ada and the children, and they married soon after Georges death. The last 3 children of Ada's, were Thomas's. Jackie and I have gone back about with the pizzey family to Thomas & Sarah and possibly one more, not proven, we can not find the right death cert for John Pizzey married to Eliza Smith they started off in Buckinghamshire and moved to Lampton, Heston, Middx
that's all for now gone 12 am
Brenda
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Hi BERM,
Huge welcome to rootschat :)
Wow, you have provided a lot of interesting information; hope you are successful in getting in contact with Jaymee.
Kath
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Hi Kath
How nice of you to say so, I hope someone in her family get in touch too, I was a child when I last saw jaymee's family. Since looking through what people have written, and things have turned up I never knew, I thought I had it worked out, just goes to show. I did'nt know of the first husband of Kate Eade, she certainly had a lot of husbands, and really she was'nt that old when she died. When I found out she had more than one husband I was surprised but now another. I will have to try and get a cert if I can find it.
Brenda :)
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Hi Everyone
My Mum was Lucy May Pizzey, one off Ada's children, there was Thomas George stillborn 1910, Kathleen Mary (Aunt Kitty) born 22 Oct 1911 Died 25 Apr 2004 suffering Senile Dementia, Ernest Albert Brn 29 Jan 1913 died 29 Dec 1972, married Barbara Millie Morris 1938,
Albert Reuben 13 Jan 1916 died 5 May 1922 just after my Mother was born 3 March 1922 died from Cancer on 13 January 1988, Horace Jack brn 25 July 1919 died 18 Oct 1929 from Diphtheria, Eileen Gladys brn 6 March 1928 still living, Margaret Rose brn 16 June 1931 died 2 April 1938 from Meningitis, Sheila Mary Aunt Sheila's cert has taken a walk for now she is still living, see her when I can. Mary was born Hawkins, married Thomas White 1886, William Bennett 1898 down as a widow, I don't have Ceaser Augustus Eade's marriage cert to her as yet, trying to find it still. Ada and Daisy when born White and was adopted by William Bennett. Daisy I was told was jilted at the alter which sent her over the edge and ended up in an asylum. Ada (My Gran) Married Mum's Dad George Pizzey, then on his death, he wanted his brother Thomas Bert Pizzey, to take care of Ada and the children, and they married soon after Georges death. The last 3 children of Ada's, were Thomas's. Jackie and I have gone back about with the pizzey family to Thomas & Sarah and possibly one more, not proven, we can not find the right death cert for John Pizzey married to Eliza Smith they started off in Buckinghamshire and moved to Lampton, Heston, Middx
that's all for now gone 12 am
Brenda
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Hello to all,
Firstly I am new to all of this rootschat. I see this is a very old post so I hope I do get a response as I have the eades in my family along with the bennetts of which you started to speak of. My email address is *
I have some pictures of eades and will help wherever I can. For now I will read through all the previous posts.
*Moderator comment: personal e-mail address removed in accordance with RootsChat general practice. Please use the personal message system to exchange e-mail addresses. Thanks :)
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Hi Micky
What a surprise to hear from you, I will email you soon I am BERM which tells you about my side of the family. :D
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Sorry put your name wrong senior moment :-[
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I realise it's been some years since this thread was active, but you may be interested to know that my grandfather was Kennedy O'Brien Martyn, having fathered an illegitimate daughter (my mother) in 1919.
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Hi BERM here I am very interested in this, Kate Eade was my Grans Mother. Can't remember if we can put our email address on here. Getting older and can't remember my way round things. My Gran was Ada White first then adopted changed name to Bennett My Aunt Barbara was the daughter with the uncertain father I have born 1913. Be pleased to hear more. Thank you for that
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Hello BERM, my grandmother was Charlotte Horne and met Kennedy O'Brien Martyn towards the end of the Great War. My mother, Ruth Katherine Horne was born at a Mother and Baby home in Mere, Wiltshire in May 1919. She was brought up by her mother and aunt who were both working in service for a very kind and sympathetic employer in South Kensington. My mother remembered her father, whom she referred to as Uncle Kob, as he regularly visited her until she was about 6 or 7.
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Maybe he fathered a few children. In those days employers were naughty and got away with it. Kate Eade I think was employed as a Nurse maid. I think we can personal message each other, to see connection. Can't remember a the moment if she worked for him without looking things up.
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You know Kensington is near where my family lived in Hammersmith thats where I was till 12 years old and my Mum was a pizzey brought up in the hounslow area. Pizzey is the family my Gran married into.
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Hi Berm
You said yesterday that your Gran's mother was Kate Eade. That confuses me greatly.
Ada White (Bennett) who I think is your Gran was the daughter of Mary Hawkins. Kate Eade was Ada White's sister. Millie Barbara Eade (who went by her stepfather's surname Morris) was Kate Eade's daughter.
I have Millie's birth certificate. Here are the details:
21 December 1912, Maternity Hospital 271 Mare Street, Hackney; Millie Barbara; Father: BLANK; Mother: Kate Eade (Domestic Servant) of 7 Montague Road, Acton; Informant: Kate Eade, Mother, Maternity Hospital 271 Mare Road Hackney; Registered 31st December 1912
Ten years ago (wow time flies) I worked on this very complicated family group. All resulting from Mary Hawkins having 5 partners and 9 children. Mary Hawkins' father was Josiah Hawkins my 2nd Great Grandfather. Brenda you are my 3rd cousin
Regards
Dennis
Cockatoo, Victoria, Australia
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Yes you are completely correct. I'm getting my stuff confused. Since I lost my dog my mind is adaled And I got another year older, to make it worse. It's one thing after the other at the moment, my computer's are playing up and it's only when I come on this one your messages come through. There's a bad cloud over this house or the deceased relatives have come back to have fun with me Sorry.
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Don't worry Brenda. We all get thinks mixed up sometimes. I'm sure those relatives are having a good laugh. As I said that family group was the most complicated I've ever come across. Lots of partners, lots of children, some "illegitimate", variable and changing surnames, marrying husband's brother and so on. Not at all straightforward.
If you have any questions you think I could answer please ask
Regards
Dennis
Your Australian cousin