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Research in Other Countries => US Lookup Requests => United States of America => US Completed Requests => Topic started by: woolley on Thursday 01 January 09 18:47 GMT (UK)
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Hello and a happy new year to all.
After a long absence from family history Looking for :-
Joseph Owram Born 1832 Ardsley, Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
Found on 1841 census,
then the 1871 Census.
where he appeared as a visitor at is mothers with a wife and child, a Jenny P (Owram) born 1825 New York, USA and Minnie A Owram Born Oct 1868 Ohio, United States.
Found arriving back in New York on the SS Batavia 24th April 1871.( lucky really to get them on the 1871 census)
Would love to know if their is any info on them in the states(No world membership with A*)
regards woolley
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Hi woolley
Jennie and Minnie were listed together in the 1900 Census of Toledo, Lincoln in Oregon.
Minnie was listed as single and born 7 October 1868 in Ohio. Occ: Artist Crayon.
Jennie P Owram was listed as a widow, born 7 October 1827 in New York. (Both her parents born in Maine.)
Dave
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Thanks for that Dave,
Looks Like the same people, looks like Joseph's story ended there
Regards Allan
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You can see them on the 1880 census - http://www.familysearch.org/ - but the surname is listed as "Ouram" - Joseph, Jennie P, Minnie A, and a sister in law, Mary Crawford (born Maine, widowed). They were resident in Berlin Heights, Erie, Ohio.
http://members.tripod.com/b_przybylski/LincolnCoObitsG.htm
- Jennie's obituary is indexed here - she died in 1907.
http://members.tripod.com/b_przybylski/LincolnCoMarriage2.htm
- also, Minnie Alice Owram married in 1905 to Hugh Murray.
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Thats a fantastic bit of research there its much appreciated, so Josephs story continues with Minnie !
Thanks
Allan
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Someone has a tree on Ance***y with these folk on it.
mab
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Thats interesting Mab
I've looked, but not found, does A* let you know if you are not world member ?
Allan
Just put the marraige in, hint for tree in ancestry, but the tree had been removed ********
Allan
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Good question....I don't know. The tree is not a public tree so as a result is not accessible for viewing but you can contact the owner.
I found it by going to the home page and using the Family Trees tab.... put in Minnie Owram with father Joseph and it's the first tree on the list.
mab
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I just found the family as visitors on the 1871 census but Joseph is a Tailor and Jenny P is a photo colourist with Minnie
RG10/ 4644/ 44/ 38
Sorry you already have that..... :-[
Found Minnie and her mum on the 1900 US census living in Toledo Town, Lincoln, Oregon
Minnie is age 31 (Oct 1868) single, artist crayon living with her mother age 75 (Oct 1824) widow. Jenny P was married for 34 years, had 4 children with 3 surviving
mab
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Yes I'm with A* and it is private tree for now(got fed up with a certain someone lifting photos off which had nothing to do with thier family, I 've cooled off so will make it public again.
I think Jennie P's Maiden name was Starr but not convinced
Thanks for the offer
:) :)
New Info thanks for that
Allan
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I just made mine private again as I got tired of people contacting me that weren't related.
mab
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ooooooo....strange coincidence....the enumerator in 1900 is a Lester M Starr ???
mab
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Definately wierd,
If she was married 34 yrs that would make it 1866 when they married , so my guess of jennie starr and joseph owram M 1870 wouldn't be correct( wrong yet again)
Thanks Mab
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Unfortunately only a portion of the US 1890 census is intact and they are not in the remaining bits.
I wouldn't discount that marriage as she was 75 years old in 1900 and maybe just guessed :)
Interesting about having 4 children.
mab
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Found them in 1870 in Berlin, Erie, Ohio
Sorry the 1870 doesn't give much info........it appears that they are sharing the address with an Elizabeth Piper age 40 dressmaker born Massachusetts, and a William (18) Brenner Farm Lab and a Warren (10) Brenner :-\
mab
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Strange I've only found the one, just makes you wonder if its worthwhile going global with A*, no doubt lots of my vanished relatives emigrated in that period.
Allan
Just seen your latest Posting for 1870, thanks
Allan
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That's why I got it because a lot of mine did end up here....but that doesn't mean I can find them :)
Hugh and Minnie A. Murray in 1920
Hugh age 52 born in Nova Scotia Canada - his father Scottish...his mother Nova Scotian....farmer in North Toledo, Lincoln, Oregon
Minnie A age 51
Children:
David J 13
Alice P 12
Lucy M 9
all born Oregon
mab
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By the way Minnie's second name is Alice.
I found them in 1910 living still in Toledo with their three kids and a David Murray age 72 widow married 45 years - he emigrated from Scotland in 1884 - Father of Hugh Murray.
And guess who lives next door....Lester M Starr and his wife Hattie......hmmmmm..... he is 55 born New York an Accountant.
mab
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Hi Mab,
Interesting about M Starr wonder if he was the enumerator mentioned earlier.
Its nice to know that this family line continued,
The scottish connection looks worth chasing up (already got 2 stacked awaiting a visit to the Scottish Records Office.)
I,ve yet to add the new info to my tree, next job, you never know I might get a hit on another tree.
Cheers
Allan
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Always a possibility that you will find a connection with another tree...good luck. It's a pity about the 1890 census being mostly destroyed....it would be great to find the other children. That's the year I need too :-\
There's also the Nova Scotia Canada connection as well....maybe you have some Canadian relatives out there :)
mab
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I think I've found David Murrey in the 1841 census Kincardineshire, Scotland but will check further.
One hit from a family tree in Nova Scotia, still got to check it.
This is proving very interesting
Cheers Allan
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Hi Mab,
Found these in 1881 Census
Household:
David MURRAY M Male 42 Scotland Farmer
Lydia Ann MURRAY M Female 45 Nova Scotia
Sarah MURRAY Female 15 Nova Scotia
Hugh MURRAY Male 14 Nova Scotia Son
Adeline MURRAY Female 10 Nova Scotia
A.D.Simon MURRAY Male 9 Nova Scotia
E.Lavinia MURRAY Female 5 Nova Scotia
Could these be them, but with an arrival date of 1884 for David ??
Cheers Allan
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he emigrated from Scotland in 1884
Ooops....I should clarify.....he didn't emigrate from Scotland in 1884.....he emigrated to the USA in 1884 :)
Good find :D
mab
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From The Lincoln County Leader - "New arrivals: H R Sturdevant and Mrs J P Owram and families, May 16 1895"
Keeping in line with this -
http://users.wi.net/~census/lesson18.html
Oram, Jenne Sturdevant (1825-1907) d/o Sam Sturdevant
Sturdevant, Hamilton R (?-?); Sturdevant, Ira Claire Starr (1854-1925); Sturdevant, Marion Sanford (?-?) pvt WWI
Maybe there is a Starr relative, but not her father?
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Phew,
Thought that was a stonewall for one minute
Thanks
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So David Murray emigrated to Canada met his wife and had a family and the moved to the USA.
Shelly....by any chance do you see a death for Hugh's father David ???
mab
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Thanks for that shellyesq,
Nice research, ties it all in quite nicely (I think)
Just seen your question Mab, would be nice
Cheers
Allan
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There were a few David Murrays on there - what do we know about him that might narrow it down?
On footnote.com, there is a Joseph Owram who was naturalized in the Common Pleas Court in New York, NY in 1866. I can't see much info without a subscription and I'm not sure how much can be seen with it, but any chance he's yours?
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Shelly
The father was with them age 72 in 1910 but wasn't in the 1920 census with them. But that doesn't really mean anything does it....he could be with one of his other children ???
Found:
I found on IGI an extracted birth record for Sarah Murray with David as father -
20 MAR 1866 Toney River, Pictou, Nova Scotia
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Hi shellyesq
Joseph Owram Born 1832, was in 1841 England Census but then vanished for 30 years, so it looks like he emigrated to the States as a young man, 1866 would make him 34, Cannot find any trace of him in england, how long would he have to there before he cold be naturalized ?
Allan
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And Hugh's birth
18 JUN 1867 Toney River, Pictou, Nova Scotia
And I found a marriage -
David Murray to Lydia Murray (?).....could she be a Murray as well ???
26 JUL 1864 River John, Pictou, Nova Scotia - extracted record.
mab
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The IGI looks to be right Mab, there are other Murrays living in Pictou, Nova Scotia so could well be correct about the marraige
Allan
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Adaline Murray birth - not extracted though
11 JUL 1870 Toney River, Pictou, Nova Scotia
Father David Murray Mother Lydia Silers
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Nice one Mab, didn't see that one
Allan
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Lavinia Emma Murray birth - 29 Feb 1876 Pictou Nova Scotia
Simon David Murray birth - 15 JAN 1872 Toney River, Pictou, Nova Scotia Father - David Murray Mother - Lydia Ann Sillers - extracted record
mab
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I don't know if there was any specific requirement about how long they would have to be in the US to be naturalized.
The earliest David Murray on the Oregon death index died in 1956, so looks like that would be too late to be your guy.
Re. the other David Murray, with a slightly different birth date -
Social Security Death Index
David Murray
Last Residence - Toledo, Lincoln, Oregon
Born 27 Jun. 1906
Died Jul. 1982
SSN issued in Oregon before 1951
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Looks like you've got the family nailed on the IGI Mab, great job
Shelley - Re David Murray, looks like it ties in with the othe info on David born 1906-07
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On the California death index:
Simon David Murray
Social Security # 0
Sex - male
Birth Date - 15 Jan 1872
Birth Place - Canada
Death Date - 8 Sep 1954
Death Place - Napa
Mother's Maiden Name - Sellers
Father - Murray
I found an S D Murray in the 1911 census in Comox-Atlin British Columbia.....born Jan 1872 Nova Scotia....single.......father Scottish mother Canadian. Unfortunately the copy is so poor I can't get more that that from it.
mab
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The Family seem to have spread about, makes you wonder where you could have been if it was your direct ancestor that had gone and not the other brother :(
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Whoops, I accidentally modified my previous post, when I meant to quote it. :-[
I meant to post this. I'll have to go back and fix the other.
From The Lincoln County Leader - "New arrivals: H R Sturdevant and Mrs J P Owram and families, May 16 1895"
Keeping in line with this -
http://users.wi.net/~census/lesson18.html
Oram, Jenne Sturdevant (1825-1907) d/o Sam Sturdevant
Sturdevant, Hamilton R (?-?); Sturdevant, Ira Claire Starr (1854-1925); Sturdevant, Marion Sanford (?-?) pvt WWI
Maybe there is a Starr relative, but not her father?
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I agree with you that the Starrs are related...... :)
I was looking for Joseph in the census records for 1851 and 1861 because he has been found in 1841 and 1871.
I found his mum in 1851 and 1861 but no Joseph so I wonder when he left Britain ???
mab
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It would be too much of a coincidence for the Starrs to be a differant family, re Joseph I've spent many an hour searching the 51 an 61 census returns but to no avail
ps the local papers for that period were always advertising emigrant ships to various places
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Coincidentally I found a Mr. Owran age 21 occupation Tailor departing Liverpool and arriving in Philadelphia on 9 Sep 1853 aboard the ship City of Manchester.
But....there is one snag.
Under the heading "What country belonging to?" they have put U.S.A.
Under the heading "What country intention to become inhabitants?" it says U.S.A.
mab
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The age and occupation fit, puzzling re country from though, could be an honest mistake in his eagerness to get aboard
1880 census
Lester M. STARR M Male 26 NY Ferry Man ( Accountant 1910 ????)
Hattie A. STARR M Female 17 PA Keeping House
Mulberry, Clay, Kansas
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I found him and Hattie and their daughter Vera in the 1885 Kansas census and he's a farmer.....same place.
mab
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Just shows - land of opportunity Ferry man to Farmer to ? to Accountant
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You never know do you :D
On the 1900 census he is an accountant and he and Hattie were married in 1880.
mab
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I am curious about the posting: Oram, Jenne Sturdevant (1825-1907) d/o Sam Sturdevant (pg. two by Shellyesq) Maybe someone out there can help me out. I am not related but was passing through Toledo, Oregon on Aug. 3rd, saw the cemetery sign so stopped and took a few photos to post on line. I found the marker for Jennie P. Owram but it was broken and there was one name I couldn't read. I will type what was on the marker and leave a blank for the name I couldn't read in hopes that someone out there can fill in the blank.
Owram, Jennie P. born Nancy Phedora Cra_______ or Gra____
Oct. 24, 1824 - April 26, 1907
Married "Elder" Lester Starr
Children:
Lester Starr, Ina Starr Sturdevant
Married Joseph Owram
Child:
Minnie Alice Owram Murray
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Thanks for that,
Interesting info - Could Joseph Owram be her second husbund. Dob and Dod are slightly differant
but they look like the same people, wilhave to dig deeper
woolley
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It appears as though Joseph was the second husband. What is a mystery to me that I hope I can clear up is what her actual birth name was. I did find a listing of burials in the Toledo, Oregon cemetery that lists her as Jenne Sturdevant Oram (Oram is spelled differently than the marker) with father as Sam Sturdevant. But the marker says her birth name was something elise
It was unfortunate that the plastic marker was broken. I tried to clean out some of the dirt but didn't want to damage it further. The posting said her father was Sturdevant but I wonder if he adopted her or if her birth surname could have been her mothers surname. According to the marker her birth name was Nancy Phedora
Cra___ or Gra__. Hopefully we can deterine what that name actually was.
Another interesting thing is that her daughter from Lester Small was Ina Starr Sturdevant.
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New topic started. Give people a chance to see thr new info from jandishon
woolley
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Hello all. I am one of the great-great-grand-daughters of Joseph Owram. (*)
I could provide clarity on the questions raised in this discussion courtesy of an excellent family history, published about 2 years ago, called "Murray Loop: The Journey of an Oregon Family", by Ted Cox. There are photographs of Joseph Owram and wonderful richly detailed stories of family history going all of the way back to Scotland and England (by way of Canada). I will provide a link to the website for the book and I will try to get around to scanning some of the photos. I have other photos in my personal collection of Minnie and her husband Hugh, my grandfather Dave Murray, and others if anyone is interested. My mother is (Barbara) June Hunt (ne Wilken, ne Murray), Dave Murray's daughter, Minnie's grand-daughter, Joseph Owram's g-g-grand-daughter.
http://www.oldworldpublications.com/murrayloop/
Here is an excerpt from Chapter 4 of "Murray Loop":
Joseph Owram grew up in Barnsley, England. A relatively small and somewhat frail child, he had three brothers and a sister. Joseph’s parents wanted to ensure their sons learned a trade, so in 1840 when Joseph was fourteen, his parents apprenticed him to a tailor. For seven years Joseph spent long hours sitting cross-legged on a bench, learning to sew instead of working in the out-of-doors he loved. In 1847 he turned twenty-one and finished his apprenticeship.
Free to earn his own living, Joseph decided to immigrate to the United States. As he prepared to leave England, he packed the scissors and tools vital to his trade, including a heavy black iron.13 The iron had a swinging door at the back so the hollow base could be filled with hot coals and emptied when the ashes cooled.
Since Joseph’s father had already visited the United States at least once looking for work, Joseph had some idea of what to expect when he arrived. Little is known about Joseph’s early years in the United States, since family records yield little information about how or where he lived. He married an Englishwoman named Harriet (Hattie) about 1854, and the two settled in Burlington Flats, New York, where they had two children, George and Alice.
Burlington Flats was roughly eight miles north of Plainfield, home to Nancy and Lester Starr. Both were small communities so it seems reasonable that the Starrs and Owrams knew each other. In describing Joseph and Jennie’s relationship, granddaughter Alice writes that the two had met while Joseph was still married to Hattie.
Joseph Owram’s history is a bit obscure between 1860 and 1866. At some point during these years he and Hattie separated, although they remained good friends. Both of them were living in Berlin Heights, Ohio, when Jennie Starr was living there, too. There aren’t any records tying Joseph directly to the free love movement, but his lifestyle fits well with their beliefs. His separation and continued friendship with Hattie, his vegetarian diet, and his devotion to the abolition of slavery set him apart from many men of his time. So did his choice of residence. Joseph’s idealism fit well with the goals and aims of free love. So he would have been drawn to Berlin Heights for many reasons.
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Hello Diorah,
Joseph's sister, Sarah was my GGGrandmother, so would love to see a photo of him and Minnie.
Tried to obtain the book in England but without success so far
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When I wrote to the author via the website about a year ago, the email got bounced back. There may be some problem with the website. I will be traveling to Oregon this coming week for my uncle's funeral and I will attempt to obtain another copy of the book to send you, or better contact information for the author. I just realized that I misspoke when I said that I was Joseph's g-g-grandaughter. That should have been 3 gs.
Joseph, Jennie and Minnie visited Joseph's mother in England 1870, and were there for her 81st birthday.
I will be glad to send photos.