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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Carmarthenshire => Wales => Carmarthenshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: NigelG on Tuesday 08 February 05 15:44 GMT (UK)
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This is a real long shot!
Rachel Williams nee POWELL - 1861, 71 & 1891 Census records she was born in Cwmaman, Carmarthenshire. 1881 says Cwmaman, Glam.
I have checked Glam 1841 & 1851 and no joy which leads me to believe that she may actually have originated from Carmarthenshire.
Checked on Streetmap and found Cwm Aman near Brynamman as a possible location.
Sorry - I don't have Rachel's parents names nor any sibling names. The only other information I have is that she was born Rachel Powell - ages in census 1861-1891 - 30, 41, 48 & 59 - meaning that she was born between 1830 and 1833.
She went on to marry a Daniel Williams a weaver and during a stay in the Swanse Workhouse in 1871 was recorded as being a Wool Picker - no other details on occupations.
If anyone has the time - any chance they can try and track down possible Rachel Powells for me in 1841 & 1851?
Many thanks :)
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Can't see anything which fits in 1841/51, do you have Daniel and Rachels marriage cert which gave her maiden name?
David
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David
Many thanks for trying to help - I'd forgotten I'd posted this message!
It transpires that Daniel must have had a few pints when he registered his son's birth as he gave Rachel's maiden name as Powell. Turns out her maiden name was Emanuel (aka Manuel)! Verified this with birth certs of other siblings and her marriage certificate which gives Rachel's father as Thomas Emanuel, Farmer.
I found Rachel (b Llandeilo, Cmn) living with her mother Catherine Jenkins (widow Sand Seller b 1787 Llandeilo, Cmn) in Merthyr in 1851.
Catherine's second husband was William Jenkins married Merthyr (recorded as widow on marr cert) in Merthyr June 1839.
I then found a marriage for a Catherine Thomas to a Thomas Manuel 25th Dec 1820 in Llandeilo Fawr, Cmn.
That's as far as I've got - no trace (that I can find) of Rachel in 1841 or a Catherine Jenkins for that matter ???
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Can't find them either >:(
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I also looked & didn't find them under E/Manuel or Jenkins in 1841 that seemed to fit.
Did you say you have marriage certs? Were the witnesses helpful?
What names do you have for Rachel's siblings?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Daniel Williams (25, Batchelor, Weaver - father Thomas Williams, Farmer) married Rachel Emanuel (24, Spinster, Servant - father Thomas Emanuel Farmer - NB does not say deceased) at Aberpergwm Chapel in the Parish of Cadoxton Juxta Neath - 16th Dec 1855. Witnesses Thomas Williams & John Thomas (all signed except Rachel).
Address given for bride & groom = Glyn Neath.
In 1851 Rachel Emmanuel (20, Sand Seller, b Llandeilo, Cmn) is living with her mother Catherine Jenkins (64, Widow, Sand Seller, b Llandeilo, Cmn) at "Park Row Cellars" Merthyr Tydfil - with grand-daughter Rachel Smith (3, b Merthyr Tydfil, Gla) & lodger Priscilla Edwards (15, Sand Seller, b Merthyr Tydfil, Gla).
Rachel Smith is living back with her parents in 1861
3 Dare St, Aberdare, Gla - Hannah Smith [38, b Swansea, Gla] with husband Thomas [41, Collier, b Crickhowell, Bre] & children John [16, Coal Miner], William [8], Evan [2], Charlotte [18, Labouring], Rachel [13, Nurse], Catherine [5] & Thomas [10] - all children born Merthyr Tydfil, Gla
(Wierd thing is - I can't find the above family in 1851. Birthplaces of the children implies they were in Merthyr but I can find no trace of them ???)
Ann Emanuel (of full age, Spinster, Charwoman - father Thomas Emanuel (deceased), Collier) married Thomas Smith (of full age, Batchelor, Miner - father John Smith (deceased), Collier) at High Street Chapel, Merthyr Tydfil 1st July 1844 - witnesses Samuel Morris & Ann Rogers - all signed their mark.
Address given for bride & groom = Ffynon Tydfil, Caedraw, Merthyr.
Catherine Manuel (sic) - Rachel & Hannah's mother (Full age, Widow, Servant - father Evan Thomas, Farmer) married William Jenkins (Full age, Widower, Labourer - father Robert Jenkins, Farmer) - 3rd June 1839 at Merthyr Tydfil Reg Office. Witnesses Daniel Quinlin (the mark of) & Jane Coles (signed).
Address given for bride & groom = Merthyr ( >:()
All the data implies that they should be in Merthyr Tydfil but I also considered that they may have been back "visiting" in Carmarthenshire. I've looked until I'm blue in the face but :-
a. Can't find Catherine & Rachel in 1841 (Hannah is lodging? in Caedraw, MT)
b. Can't find Hannah & Thomas Smith & family in 1851
c. Cannot definitely find Catherine Jenkins in 1861
The witnesses have not exactly helped either as some of them seem to not exist.
Trying to trace Catherine Thomas born c 1787 Llandeilo, Cmn (father Evan Thomas) & a Thomas Emanuel has also proved nigh on impossible.
If anyone has the time to look into this I would be very grateful. I can't see the wood for the trees!!
Many thanks :)
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Well i'm beat, cannot find any info on any of them!!!!
Sorry
David
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Hi
I am completely new to genealogy, so apologies for any lack of knowledge of how these things work. I have been prompted to look into the family history by my father's upcoming 80th birthday.
I was very excited to find this post as Rachel Williams (nee Emanuel/Powell) and Daniel (which is coincidentally my name too) were my paternal great great grandparents.
I was interested to read that it is possible to check the birth certs of Rachel's siblings; I assume therefore it is possible to find hers (even though the information I have is that she was born in 1831, ie before birth certs were introduced?).
If anyone could give me any information about Daniel/Rachel or their parents on either side, I would be extremely grateful or indeed, any advice about how to find things out myself.
Many thanks
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Daniel - just sent you a private message :)
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Possibly him or a relative?From Crime and Punishment on the NLW website
Thomas Emanuel
Tinker
Date-9th Sept 1800
Parish-Carmarthenshire
Offence-Uttering a counterfeit guinea
Plea-Not Guilty
Verdict-Not Guilty
Welsh Lady
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I see that Rachel said her father Thomas was a Farmer.If this was the case he possibly left a will The National Library of Wales has wills online have a look.
Welsh Lady
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Thanks Welsh Lady
Yes, I suppose it could be him although, as you say, the marriage cert from 1855 describes him as "farmer". Perhaps that was just a euphemism.
I see there is also another allegation of a crime the following year by Jemima Emanuel (perhaps another relation):
Accused Jemima Emanuel; Parish: Llandeilo Fawr; County: Carmarthen; Status: Singlewoman
Offence Breaking and entering prosecutor's house with intent, whilst she was in Llandeilo market.
Location and date Parish: Llandeilo Fawr; County: Carmarthen; Date: 13 June 1801
Prosecutor Elizabeth David, Llandeilo Fawr, widow
Verdict Not guilty.
I'll have a look at the wills on the NLW site.
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Thanks for that - a definite possibility!!
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Hello :)
This thread mentions an Emanuel family, of Wernddu Farm, Ammanford, which is within Llandeilo Fawr registration district.
See Reply #18
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,122112.0.html
Kindest regards
Morgan
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Just noticed the other info - many thanks for that - some definite avenues to look at! FYI the 1851 census names Rachel's mother as Katherine Jenkins & her 2nd (?) marriage certificate states?
"Catherine Manuel (sic) - Rachel's mother (Full age, Widow, Servant - father Evan Thomas, Farmer) married William Jenkins (Full age, Widower, Labourer - father Robert Jenkins, Farmer) - 3rd June 1839 at Merthyr Tydfil Reg Office. Witnesses Daniel Quinlin (the mark of) & Jane Coles (signed)."
The "tinker" mention could tie in with the fact that Rachel & her mother were listed as "Sand Sellers" & the fact that they were living in a desperately poor location in 1851. I just wish I could find Rachel on the 1841 census but they may have fallen through the gaps as they were possibly on the road travelling??
Something else that needs to be noted is the fact that on several occasions there are reports in the Cambrian newspaper index [of the right time frame] of a couple [Daniel, a weaver & wife Rachel Williams]being fined for drunk & disorderly, domestic disturbances, as well as a stint in Swansea Union Workhouse. I visited Swansea Archives but there is no further details of the offences other than the small entries in the actual newspaper .
The Emanuels of Wernddu farm need more investigation but they seem too "posh" to be related to my Rachel!!
FYI Daniel died of dropsy & Rachel died of "Cirrhosis of Liver & general dropsy" at her son Joseph's pub [another son Thomas also ran a pub around the corner from Joseph's] They certainly seem to be an interesting couple - quite proud of them ;D