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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Carmarthenshire => Topic started by: reiversgirl on Tuesday 30 December 08 17:42 GMT (UK)
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Martha Lodewich (abt 1725-1794) married James Maddox (abt 1724-1807) in about 1750. I am certain of their existence and I know about their children but no one seems to have any record of their parentage. They lived in the Llanarthney area.
Lodewich has come down as Lodwick but I've seen variations such as Lodovicus and Lodwich. If anyone has any information about their ancestry, I'd love to hear about it.
Thank you.
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Hi
You may have come across this already but there is a little bit of info at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp. Here we have Martha Lodewich birth 1725 Of Drawstre Genol,Llanarthney, death 1794 but no mention of parents. Her husband is listed as James Maddocks, of Gellywernen, Wales marriage about 1751.
If you search for James Maddocks there is one given as christening 03 APR 1725 Holt, Denbigh, Wales with father listed as Joseph Maddocks. Date of christening ties up but not place of birth.
Any information on Family Search has to be regarded as not guaranteed accurate but I have found it to be generally reliable. If you do your own searches on variations of Lodowick, Lodwig, Lodwick etc. and also try variations of Maddox you might find so more info.
I have a possible Lodwick in my tree. A Rachel Lodwick born about 1806 Llanarthney with parents possibly David Lodwick and Emiah Thomas. However although everything points to her being a Lodwick on her children's birth certificates she gives her surname as Lott. Have you come across any instances of "Lodwicks" changing surname in this way?
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Hallo
Thank you very much for that. Yes, I've got the Family Search info and, believe me, I've searched under almost every variation of name (for both Lodovich and Maddox/Maddocks) as I can think of. The Lott aspect has turned up elsewhere and struck me as odd at the time but the fact that you have Rachel Lodwick in your family and an Emiah might help me. Emiah is a name that has passed down through the family although I don't think there is anyone just at the moment with the same name. Having said that, the family is so vast and so widespread that I can't be sure. What I'll try to do this year is to go to Llanarthney churchyard and have a good look around. It's been so frustrating! I've checked via the Carmarthen records and it's just been hopeless.
Thanks again. It's nice to know there's someone else out there!
All the best.
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Hi. FH can be frustrating! If you do get to Llanarthney cemetry I will be interested in any findings you make.
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Hi
I don't know if this on any relevance to you but it was posted today on the CMN-L site (I don't know where it came from but can ask if you wish). It mentions Maddocks and Llanarthney so it my give you some possible leads
"West Wales Golden Wedding Mr and Mrs James Maddocks, Bailey Glas, Llanarthney, Carmarthenshire, have just celebrated their golden wedding with hearty congratulations from a large number of well wishers. Married in Llanarthney church on November 29th 1869, by the late Canon Harris, they have always been ardent Churchpeople and Conservatives. Mr Maddocks has been vicar's warden for over twenty years, but lately that office has been held by his son. A well known and successful agriculturist, Mr Maddocks is the eldest son of the late Mr Thomas Maddocks, Eisteddfa Llannon, near Llanelly, but has resided in the Llanarthney district for the last 60 years. His services as judge at ploughing matches have been in great demand. Mrs Maddocks, who is the youngest daughter of the late Mr and Mrs John Griffiths, Llwyndu, Llanarthney, has lived in the parish of Llanarthney all her life. Mr and Mrs Maddocks have six surviving children - Mrs John Gibbon, Llanstephan; Mrs B T Stephens, Carmarthen; Mr Johnnie Mad!
docks, Closglas; Mrs D. R Michael, Pontardulais; and Mr Jim E Maddocks and Miss Ray P Maddocks who are at hme with their parents......
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Hallo
I'm sorry I've taken so long to get back to you but I've been in Wales (stuck an extra day due to snow) and opening the message on my tiny phone is impossible. Now that I'm back to my PC, I can answer messages properly.
Actually, that's a lovely thing to have. That James Maddocks is a different one though! So many people with the same names. Ray (actually Rachel) Phoebe Maddocks was my grandmother's cousin and she was very close to my mother; I have lovely photos of her. I also have a photo of the whole Beili Glas family.
I used to subscribe to the Carmarthen List but I just got a bit fed up with hundreds of messages appearing in my inbox every week.
I'd like to add that to my Ancestry tree, to the Beili Glas Maddocks family entry.
Many thanks again.
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This is my first post to any genealogy forum, so forgive me if it's incomplete or confusing.
In searching for James Maddocks (1724-1807) I found this post mentioning Martha Lodewich (abt 1725-1794) and some confusion about her parents and possible name changes.
In my genealogy I have a James Maddocks (1724-1807), Gelly Wernen, Llanelli, Carmarthenshire, Wales, Married Abt 1751 of Gellywernen,,, Wales to a Maria Lodowick 1729-1794, Abergwili, Carmarthenshire, Wales.
any chance Martha and Maria are the same person?
-Jed
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Hello
This is an old topic but I have been recently been going through my notes and came across the below statements (but can't remember where they came from!). Some I am able to substantiate other info I can't, so if anyone else can pitch in with additional information and/or links to the approriate information that would be great:
The original post makes reference to Martha Lodewich (abt 1725-1794) marrying James Maddox (abt 1724-1807) in about 1750. However, I am unable to find any reference to their marriage occuring then. Is anyone able to confirm this and have a link? If so, then the below is probably of little reference and may be a different pairing. If not, then it may be if this marriage actually occurred much later and the below is of relevance.
Assuming Martha's marriage to James was later then it looks like Martha was married twice, first to David Lodowick and then to James Maddock
"Martha (Stephen) is from Puncheston Pembs. She is probably the daughter of Thomas Stephen of Llanegwad (confirmed as his name is on the bond of her first marriage to David Lodowick, though he may not have necessarily been her father) 04 Oct 1784.
https://familysearch.org/search/image/index?owc=9SBR-168%3A383499701%3Fcc%3D2040546
(St Davids 1784-1787 vol 18 page 134-137)
They had a daughter Diana baptised at Llanarthney in Jan 1786 (unconfirmed).
David died in the February see Bond NLW SD/1786/60 (wife confirmed as Martha). (I am confused by this statement as it refers to a bond rather than a will. However Llanarthney records do show the burial of a David Lodowick on 01 Feb 1787 http://www.ukgo7.com/ukgo2/Carmarthenshire-Parish-Regs/Llanarthney-regs/Burials%201722-1952/Burials%201722-1952index.html. However, can't confirm if this is the same David.
The author proposes Martha was pregnant when David died as there is a David baptised at Llanarthney on 13 Sep 1789 (born 1786) son of a David Lodwick. Can't confirm if this is David Lodwick son of David Lodwick and Martha Stephen
The Will of James Madock of Trawsdreganol, Llanarthney written in 1792 (he died in 1807) names his wife as Martha and his step son David Lodwick. Seeming to confirm a Martha (whether Martha Stephen or not) married a second time to James Madock
https://syllwr.llyfrgell.cymru/944264#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=0&z=0.167%2C0.4881%2C0.7326%2C0.5558
James' first wife was Margaret John who he married at Llanarthney on 13 Feb 1778. They had three sons which are shown on their fathers Will. Margaret was buried in Llanarthney on the 29th July 1786 (unconfirmed).
I have been unable to find any reference to a marriage of a James "M" to a Martha, but there must have been one
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Hallo
Thanks for all of that. I'm quite happy to be told that there were 2 marriages and I'm delighted to see the will, which will help a great deal I'm sure.
James's children were born from 1754 onward; John was born on 20 Aug 1754 and he married on 7 April 1775. So that tells us that James was married some time in 1753 at latest. If the first wife was called Margaret John, all well and good.
I'll do some further research and see if anything new comes up.
Best regards
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Hope this information has been of some help. Going this far back when the records are incomplete and/or have limited detail is tricky.
So we can see if these records match up correctly, what children do you have attributed to James other than the John you mention from 1754. Do their birth/baptism entries mention the mother as well to help clarify parentage? What is your source for these children being linked to James?
There seems to be some mismatch somewhere that needs resolving, as the proposed first wife of James was Margaret John who he married at Llanarthney on 13 Feb 1778. However, if this is the correct James it does not tie up with the birth years of the children you have, as these start in 1754.
The will for the John Madock who died in 1807 mentions sons Thomas (assume oldest as he with Martha is left the lease and goods and chattels), John and James and stepson David Lodowick.
A précis of the will: “John Madock who died in 1807 (will written in June 1792 and proven in August 1807 (therefore assume year of death) leaves the lease of his property to his wife Matha Madock and son Thomas Madock. He leaves his stepson David Lodowick 20 shillings and his sons John and James 20 shillings. Plus the good and Chattels to his wife Martha and son Thomas”
(Whether it is the correct Thomas or not there is Thomas son of James Madock of “Bleine” on May 5th 1783 in the Llanarthney records. Same spelling of Madock)
Given the spelling of the surname and his wife in 1792 is Martha and stepson is David, these seem to tie up nicely with Martha being the Martha (Stephen) is from Puncheston Pembs who married a David Lodowick on 04 Oct 1784, though there seems to be no record of a Martha Lodowick marrying a James Madock (even allowing for spelling variations)
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Hallo again
The Margaret John you have was married to James Maddocks, the son of the James Maddocks in question. I have all their children on my ancestry tree.
To be honest, its so long since I first did this part of the tree that I don't remember how I got Martha Lodowick but I know that there is a connection as Edith Lodwick contacted my mother for photographs for her book and my mother's family have been connected with the modern Lodwick family. It seems however that we are not connected by blood.
It has been very frustrating trying to go back further. I think I would need the help of a professional to do so. I haven't been in a position to go to graveyards either, which might help.
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Hallo again
The Margaret John you have was married to James Maddocks, the son of the James Maddocks in question. I have all their children on my ancestry tree.
To be honest, its so long since I first did this part of the tree that I don't remember how I got Martha Lodowick but I know that there is a connection as Edith Lodwick contacted my mother for photographs for her book and my mother's family have been connected with the modern Lodwick family. It seems however that we are not connected by blood.
It has been very frustrating trying to go back further. I think I would need the help of a professional to do so. I haven't been in a position to go to graveyards either, which might help.
Thanks for the clarication on the James marriage to Margaret John. Therefore it looks like we have 2 missing marriages from the records for James "senior", his second to Martha Lodowick and that for his first wife, whoever she might have been.
You mention Edith Lodwick's book. What is this? Does it give some definitive lineage details for
Lodwicks?
Regards
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Hallo again
For the time being on my tree I've entered the first wife as Mam Maddox!
The book is called The Story of Carmarthen by Malcolm and Edith Lodwick. It's a long time since I looked at it but it's a general story I think.
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Hallo again
For the time being on my tree I've entered the first wife as Mam Maddox!
The book is called The Story of Carmarthen by Malcolm and Edith Lodwick. It's a long time since I looked at it but it's a general story I think.
Hello
Seems a sensible move for now. Have established that in his will James "senior" was living as Drawstre Ganol Llanarthney, which later became known as Trawsdre Ganol with a variation in spelling of Trawsedre ganol. This is useful as in some of the parish/census records it lists Drawsre or Drawsre Ganol as the place of residence so we can match things up.
In the will he leaves the lease to his wife Martha and son Thomas. From this I think it is reasonably safe to assume Thomas was the oldest son? (the others being John and James).
Thomas is still living at Drawstre, as Thomas Maddox, in the 1841 and 1851 census with his wife Mary and children in 1841 and just his children and others in 1851. In the 1851 census is age is given as 89 and and in his burial entry from Lanartney on 21 Feb 1852 as 88. Therefore, assuming these ages are correct, he was born around 1762-1764, which, if he is the eldest, would make the other sons born later.
However, from the information you have this doesn't seem to tie up as you have John as the eldest born 20 Aug 1754? Can I please ask what children you have attributed to James (died 1807) and their dates/years of birth and if there is any reference to Drawstre?
There is a John Maddox buried 28 Oct 1834 age 61 (therefore born around 1773), of Drawsdre Fach. Therefore I am tempted to think that this John is the more likely son of James (died 1807) rather than the one born 20 Aug 1754? You may of course may have access to family history/information that I don't have?
Regards
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Hi
It doesn't necessarily follow that the oldest son is left the farm. For example, my grandparents left their farm to the 2nd youngest son who was 13 years younger than the oldest son.
I expect that in the case of the Maddox family, John and James had married and moved on and Thomas had stayed to work on the farm. Of course, in those days, the girls in between didn't signify, however much work they did on the farm.
I have John Maddox (from the LDS Family Search listing) as being buried on 28 Oct 1834 at 81 years. Thomas Maddox (for whom I have the burial record) was buried on 21 Feb 1851 at 88 years of age.
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Hello again
Totally agree with what you say. However, I think there is a trancription error for John and definitelty for Thomas's entry in the LDS records. I have attached images to confirm this.
I can quite easily see how the transcriber thought John was 81. However, looking at other 8's and 6's on this page I am more included to think his age is 61 rather than 81 (I would be interested in what you and others who may be following this thread think). The person compiling the Llanartney burial records during this period either put big loops at the top of his 6's or didn't always complete his 8's properly. Looking at other examples of 8's and 6's on this page I am more inclined to go with the former. What do you think?
Thomas was actually buried 21 Feb 1852 (his is the first entry for 1852, which is written in the margin). This would tie up with him still being alive in Drawstre in the 1851 census (which took place on 31 Mar 1851)
Regards
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The "6" on other entries looks very definite to me. For the time being, until I can get real proof that the years are wrong, I'm leaving it as it is. I'll try to find out if anyone has the family bible or has seen the gravestones of the various people.
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Hello reviersgirl
Looks like you were right all along and John Madock's age at death was 81 not 61. I have found a page in the Llanarthney records which conclusivley shows the transcriber writes his 8s in this unusual fashion.
In the 1841 census someone else has pointed out that what initially looks like a James (a Farmer) and Margaret Maddore is actually James and Margaret Maddox (listed as age 85) at Dyllgoed Ganol, together with Margaret Lodwick (age 65 a pauper). The Llanarthney burial records show a Margaret Madox (age 93 of Dyllcoed Canol) buried 12 Dec 1844 and James Maddock (age 93 of Dullcoed Ganol) buried 12 June 1849 at Llanarthney, which must be the same pair.
This James (therefore born around 1756) is a possible brother of John. Do you know if this is the case and/or are you aware of any family links to Dyllgoed Ganol which is not far from Trawsdre Ganol?
Regards
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Hallo again
Yes, I've seen the 1841 census for Dyllgoedganol and that will be our James. It would quite interesting as a side issue to find out about the pauper Margaret Lodwick. A Margaret Lodwick of the same birth year was buried in Brongwyn, Ceredigion a few years later.
I don't know anything at the moment about Dyllgoedganol but will consult my cousin who is a fount of knowledge and see if he knows something. He, like us, is very frustrated by the Maddox family prior to 1724.
Something he came up with this week was the use of the patronymic in Wales and I've since found that Rachel Maddox was baptised as Rachel James (her father being James Maddox). I've tried looking up births for just "James", in the hope that a father called Maddox/Maddocks/Madock etc. might come up but failed so far. Its quite possible that James was baptised as James John, for example, but not having his father's first name is a huge stumbling block.
I've trawled through any number of Maddocks in Carmarthenshire and found different branches who may or may not have links to me. I've found the following who might have some link, being in Llanelli:
Jacobus Maddock (buried 28 Aug 1719 St Elli)
Johannes Maddocks (buried 10 July 1723 St Elli)
Griffith Maddock (Born 1680 and buried 18 November 1750 St Elli)
That last one seems like a possibility if we could only find out more.
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Hi I'm linked to the Maddocks family Llanarthney. My mother was brought up by Maddocks in Closglas Llanarthney. She was related. I can give you some information if you want as I know the family and don't live far away
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Hello Kendyer
Thanks for the offer of information. Any information you can provide would be of great interest. My link into the Maddox/Madock/Maddocks family is indirect and is via James Maddock and his second wife Martha Stephen (marriage date unknown, do you know?) and his stepson David Lodowick (b. abt 1786) who married Emiah Thomas on 20 Jan 1804. Therefore any information you may have on Lodwicks would also be very useful. Particularly on David and Emiah's daughter Rachel (1806-1894) who married Thomas Bowen, who for some reason on birth entries for her children put her surname as Lott (Rachel Bowen formerly Lott)!
Also for James Madock (born unknown, died Aug 1807) we have an "unknown" first wife (see previous entries in this post). Therefore if you are able to shine any light on this it would also be greatly appreciated
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James Maddox who died in 1807 was my great grandfather x 4. Any further information you can help with will be appreciated!
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Hello. Helping my cousin with her Maddocks family. Her James Maddocks was born around 1790 in Llanarthne' married an Elizabeth and baptised several children in Llanarthne living in Pwll Y March. By 1841 he was in Ystalyfera. I suspect he is the son of James and Margaret m 1778. Any connection? Regards Ceri
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Hi Ceri
I have a James Maddox (spelling was sometimes Maddocks, sometimes Maddox!), son of John and Margaret (nee David) born in 1781 (died 1868, possibly). I don't have anything further for him in terms of marriage or children. However, your hint about the 1841 census will help me there. He was born in Llanarthney. Thanks for contacting. I'll see if I can link your James with this one.
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Hello. Thank you for replying. I will check later pretty sure he died in 1868. Be in touch. Kind Regards Ceri
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My apologies it was 1872. He had a daughter named Margaret and sons Thomas and James