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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: Annie65115 on Monday 29 December 08 10:02 GMT (UK)

Title: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 29 December 08 10:02 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help me find my Marshalls?

In 1841, the Marshall family were living at Welford Rd, Leic, and consisted of William, age about 35, a hosier; Sophia, 15; Frances, 11 and Emma, 2. William is shown as having been born out of the county, the girls were all born in leicester.

I believe that William had married Mary Ann Rawson in 1822 at St Margaret's Leicester; there was a Sophia born to this couple in April 1822 (IGI). I can't find any birth record for Frances. Emma was almost certainly Emma Rawson Marshall, b 1838 Leic. Mary Ann died in 1839.

In 1851 Frances married and gave her address as Desford but the rest of the family doesn't seem to be there (it was the village whence came her husband). I've been able to trace Frances's life but not the others.

I can't find any trace of Sophia after 1841 - no marraige, no death, no census returns.

In 1851 there are 2xEmma Marshalls -- one is living with her parents John and Alice (so not the right one) and the other is a boarder at Mis Coopers' School in Hoton -- but why/how could the child of a widowed hosier end up being sent to a private school? And what became of her after that? Again, no census returns, nothing identifiable on BMD for marraige or death.

I can't identify William either after the 1841 census. He isn't a witness at Frances's marraige but it doesn't state that he was deceased either at that time.

Does anyone have any suggestions regarding other lines of enquiry for this family? I'm particularly intrigued about the possibility that Emma may have been sent to school.

(My grandmother always swore that there was "Money" in the family somewhere but I haven't found it yet -- unless William won the lottery!!  :D)
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: AMBLY on Monday 29 December 08 11:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Annie

This chap in 1851, enumerated alone - looks promising for William:

7 Curzon Place, Leicester St Margaret,  Leicestershire
HO107 /  Piece: 2088 /  Folio: 472 /  Page: 18
Head: William MARSHALL 49., widower, Glover, b Winsford, Cheshire

He's certainley in a "right kind of place" - on the same page is a visitor to the household above him who is a Seamer of Hose, and a butcher's daughter further upm who is a Mender of Hose!

Cheers
AMBLY
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Annie65115 on Monday 29 December 08 18:41 GMT (UK)
well, I think I might have got a lead on Emma (having thought I'd exhausted all avenues before posting here!)

I found an Emma R Uglow, b Leicester 1840, living in West Teignmouth in 1871 with a husband and child. FreeBMD shows that William Uglow married Emma Marshall in Honiton in 1864 but what seems most relevant is that their child was Ernest RAWSON Uglow, and a previous child was RAWSON William Uglow.

So I assume that this was Emma RAWSON Uglow nee Marshall -- but how she ended up in Devon, I don't know.

So - can anyone help me find her somewhere in 1861? And does anyone have any idea as to why she might have been sent to school - hardly common amongst working class girls in the 1850s!

Ambly, thanks for looking for William. That's certainly a possibility though again I can't find him in 1861- perhaps he'd died.

Can anyone find any trace of Sophia?

thanks again :)
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Hazel17 on Monday 29 December 08 19:44 GMT (UK)
Maybe after the death of her mother there was a relative somewhere who was financially better off who decided who take her under their wing to help William out? Maybe it wasn't a private school but some sort of charity?
A father can be listed on the marriage certifcate and be deceased but not necessarily listed as being deceased.
I had a good look for Emma in 1861 using Marshall and Rawson as surnames but I saw no-one likely.
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Annette7 on Tuesday 30 December 08 00:39 GMT (UK)
Have found Emma in 1861 in Devon - her surname transcribed as 'Manhill' and looking at original I can see why it was transcribed as such.   

1861 Census - Ottery St. Mary, Devon - ref.RG9 - 1378 - 76 - 9

Emma Marshall     Visitor  22     School Assistant       b. Leicester
(in household of a Sarah Warren   Marr.   39     Ironmongers wife, with her 4yr old son Edward and a sundry collection of apprentices, 2 nieces and servant). 

Annette

Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Tuesday 30 December 08 05:15 GMT (UK)
Greeting’s again. ……… Annie 5115.

St: Margaret’s Parish Baptism Registers :~

Reg. No', 2024   24D65 B2   17 th.Apr   1822   Sophia   Marshall   William & Marianne
No sign of either Frances or Emma. …..

I’m not sure about your death of Mary Anne ( Williams wife) 1839. ?
The only Marshall Burial record matching your details is as follows :~

St: Margaret’s Parish Church.
Marshall   Mary Ann   18 th.   Dec   1839   Aged.2 Yrs    

Possible Burial for William going on the Address & age ( 1851 census) . ?

Welford Road Cemetery
Plot No’. C. M. 377.


377   C   MARSHALL   WILLIAM   1852   MAY   20   Aged. 50   
CURZON PLACE CURZON STREET   
SAINT GEORGE   999
   
377   C   Offlow   ---   1852   May   20   Stbn   Leicester Asylum   Market Harborough Leicestershire   1001   Child Of Elizabeth
377   C   Gwilliams   Walter   1880   Aug   16   18mths   Johnson Street   Saint Margaret   21661   
377   C   Gwilliams   Thomas   1880   Oct   23   3   Johnson Street   Saint Margaret   21912   
377   C   Kilbourn   Arthur Edwin   1898   Apr   23   11mths   Calais Street   Leicester   41272   
377   C   Skinner   Grace Nellie   1917   Jun   4   19mths   22 Eldon Street   Leicester   56902   
377   C   Skinner   Annie Irene   1918   Dec   5   12mths   22 Eldon Street   Leicester   58110   

Abv. :~

C. = Consecrated Ground.
M. = Section.
377. = Plot No’.
Last column = Burial No’.
C. = Common plot. ( No Leases taken out by Family.)

With regards to why a young Girl from a low income family
should be in a Girls finishing School ?
I have read that there was a Girls finishing School
in the Borough of Leicester ( The Newarke )
Were local Business were asked to sponsor a Girl for 6/- per week.
So. …..
This could be an other way for Emma to have been at that School. ? 

MIKE. 
 
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 30 December 08 10:22 GMT (UK)
Once again, thankyou to everyone!

Mike, re Mary Ann's death, she must have died between Emma's birth and the 1841 census and I found 2x Mary Ann Marshall deaths registered in different quarters of 1839 - the one that you mention, and one in q1 of the same year.

In 1841 the family were living in the St Mary's part of the city so perhaps they used a different church?

Thankyou, Annette, for the 1861 census finding! And if Emma was a schoolteacher, that would back up the idea that she had some schooling herself.

I have another hunch re the school in 1851. In 1871, staying with Emma and her husband are 2 people called Dally who are listed as "aunt" and "cousin" of the head of household. However, they originate from Leic so I think they were Emma's relatives, not William's, and tracking them back through the censuses I see that the aunt was widowed before 1851 and must have inherited money or property from her husband - she appears to be called a "proprietress of houses" or similar. Two of her children were at different boarding schools in 1851 so perhaps she took Emma under her wing too. So I'm going to try to find out if Aunt Harriet Dally (or Dalby, Dolby etc etc!) was actually a Rawson by birth.

Oh, I do enjoy a good puzzle  :)
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Tuesday 30 December 08 16:35 GMT (UK)
Greeting’s again Annie. …. 65115.

Sorry I was going on most events were at St.Margaret’s Parish Church.

Here’s the other one for
St: Mary’s Parish Church. Leicester.
Marshall   Mary Ann   4.Th.   Jan   1839   Aged. 36


To make amends . …Is this the missing details for Sophia ?

Marshall   Sophia   29.Th.   Nov   1844   Aged. 22

MIKE.
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Annie65115 on Tuesday 30 December 08 20:17 GMT (UK)
Thankyou Mike! Once again I think you've come up trumps!

Do you have a birth registration for Emma Rawson Marshall q4 1838? I wonder if Mary Ann died of the result of childbirth.

cheers
Annie
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Wednesday 31 December 08 05:19 GMT (UK)
Greeting’s again Annie.

Unfortunately my Disks for St: Mary’s Parish Church stops at 1837.  :(

But as soon as the Records Office reopens again & the rush as died down
I’ll have a look at the original Baptism Registers for you.

MIKE.
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Annie65115 on Wednesday 07 January 09 14:31 GMT (UK)
BINGO!!  :D 8)

Turns out that Aunt Harriet from leicester was indeed born Harriet Rawson, who married a solicitor!

So I'm sure that she must have sponsored Emma through school  :)

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread. I don't suppose I can ever be certain of a few things but all this info has put together an interesting story.

The Rawson surname hasn't been in my direct line since 1822, but strangely my grandmother had a definite idea, almost akin to a folk memory, that Rawson featured somewhere in the family past and had some sort of link to money! Isn't it both strange and helpful how these whispers get passed down the generations!
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Mike from Leicester on Thursday 08 January 09 23:23 GMT (UK)
Greeting’s again. ….Annie.

I trawled the St: Mary’s Parish Baptisms Registers 1827. ~ 47.

For the baptism of your Emma Rawson / Marshall.
But I drew a blank ….sorry
The only Rawson Baptism found was this one :~

1830.
Page. No. 110.
Entry No’. 879…….May. 6th.

Joseph. Son of William & Mary RAWSON.
Abode. London Road.
A Hosier.

Conducted by Rev’d D. Farncourt. Vicar.
Enter on Register by Wm. J. Foster. Curate.

But to confirm the Burial details I found in my last post

St: Mary’s Parish Burials :~

1839.

Entry No’. 411.

Mary Ann Marshall.
Abode. :~ Welford Road.
4th. January.
Aged. 36.
Wm. Farncourt. Vicar.

1844.

Entry No’. 1797.

Sophia Marshall.   
Abode :~ Great Wigston.
24th. November.
Aged. 22.

George ? Surname not clear to have even a guess
Curate of St: Margaret’s Parish Church.

MIKE.

Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: RickyC on Friday 01 October 10 11:17 BST (UK)
Hello Annie,

A bit late I'm afraid - but here goes.......

I have followed this thread with great fascination.

Tonight I will be sleeping in the ex-Girl's Boarding School in Hoton.
As you know this school was run by the Cooper family - two sisters and a brother. The age range was from 5 up to 19 years of age. Cost per annum from £10 to £15.
The Coopers came from Ruddington, and some of their archives are kept in the old school (now Ruddington Museum)

The Spooky bit is that my surname is Cooper, but no relation to the Leicester Coopers. I started on this path by following the UGLOW family tree.

RickyC from Wirral and IOM
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: Annie65115 on Friday 01 October 10 20:59 BST (UK)
Hello Ricky,

this is quite an old thread now and I have progressed my Rawson line enormously from this.

Emma may indeed have been looked after by Aunt Harriet but the Rawsons were wealthy Leic manufacturers - Harriet marrying a solicitor was not a fluke and Emma wasn't a poor working class girl after all!

I have more info that will be of interest if your Uglow line descends from Emma - let me know if you're interested.
Title: Re: The Mystery of the Missing Marshalls
Post by: RickyC on Monday 04 October 10 15:01 BST (UK)
Hi Annie,

Just got back from my stay in the old Boarding School in Hoton.
There were two Boarding Schools for young Ladies in Hoton -
One was run by the Potters and the other was run by the Coopers
(two sisters and a brother[Linguist, traveller and Latin teacher]).
The Coopers had a pony and trap; and would run back and forth visiting their
parents and relations at Ruddington.
If Emma went to the Coopers School - I would have expected her Aunt to also send her children to the same school if they were girls ?
My examination of the Coopers building showed that there was a large water tank at the top of the building, and also another large tank of water under the back yard. The pattern of the flagstones indicated that there was a "Horse Mill" on top of the tank in the back yard - perhaps pumping water up to the other tank in the house. There is a modern house next door built on the site of outhouses from the Coopers house. In common with the Potters schoolhouse, they are both Georgian and show the top of a  tower staircase externally.
.....At Ruddington itself - it's old Victorian schoolhouse is now a Museum containing exhibits and archives. Even the old school desks.

My interest in all this centres on Hoton and associated people, and not on any particular Family Trees. So - Emma has popped up quite by coincidence.
Nevertheless I find Emma's tale to be quite fascinating, and would welcome any further information you have on her schooldays.

Ricky Cooper - currently researching the Cowpers of Burton-in-Wirral prior to 1600.