RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: PaulJC on Wednesday 24 December 08 14:04 GMT (UK)
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Hello All,
Can anyone point me in the direction regarding information about the building of the back to back terraced streets of Ardwick and Beswick in the late 19th Century. I believe the extensive building began around 1890 in the area of an old lime works. That would be the area bordered by Ashton Old and New Road with the main streets being Hillkirk, Viaduct and Lime Bank.
Streets such as Spire, Coalbrook, Rowen, Palmerston, Roy, Devon and Nash all were part of my childhood with Birley Street School, the Red "Wreck" and the shops on the corner of Hillkirk and Palmerston Street local landmarks.
Any maps of the area before the development and then in the 50s or 60s would be really useful.
Best wishes
Paul
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Hello Paul
My family history is very much centred around the streets of Ardwick and Beswick . My research shows that most branches on my dad's side can be found on all of the census records but more towards Chancellor Lane . Most of the streets have long gone but I have found many on the Manchester Local images website .
Churches used by them for baptisms and marriages being St . SILAS , Ashton Road , others being slightly out of the area being St ANDREWS , Travis Street and All Souls , Every Street .
Closer to your stamping ground is St Jeromes , Baden Street where my parents were married in the late thirties and my grandma on my mothers side had a shop on Blackthorn Street . My mother recollected the Roy picture house on Ashton Old Road and also made references to
the Bradford pit and the terrible noise of the sirens when there was an accident .
I have found a useful map of the area in 1857 can be found on www.artus-familyhistory.com/source/Early%20Maps.html.
Regards
Eric
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Alan Godfrey Maps produce fantastic reproduction maps of most cities from 1880 - 1910 ish, including Manchester and they cost a very reasonable £2.50 or so and they offer a very speedy internet order service. Highly recommended! Just Google Alan Godfrey.
A really good read is a book called Mary Barton written by Elizabeth Gaskell in 1850's. It's set in Ardwick, Chorlton on Medlock, Ancoats and gives a real flavour of the area in mid 19th century. If you're feeling really academic, read the Penguin Classics edition for loads of background info.
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Try here for some street photos
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/
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Thanks for the responses.
I had already managed to obtain the pictures from Manchester Images. What I really would like to know is about the development of the numerous back to backs in the area. I have seen photos of their construction in the 1890s but who put up the money to build them? We all paid rent so who were the owners?
Best wishes from overseas.
Paul
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I think small local building companies built them speculatively. Builders could buy pattern books of different styles of houses, which explains why the same style of houses could be found all over say Manchester and probably also in Leeds, Sheffield etc. It doesn't mean the same firm of builders built them all.
Try Googling "victorian housing" for loads of websites, or www.aboutbritain.com/articles/victorian-housing.asp
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Dead Link :(
http://www.aboutbritain.com/articles/victorian-housing.asp
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Sorry,try this : Google about britain and click on aboutbritain.com. On left hand side, click on articles; run down list til you get to Victorian housing and click on that. You should get interesting article.
Sorry about faulty link, I'm also trying to cook Christmas Dinner! Women can multi task, but this is extreme multi-tasking!
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Dear Paul, are you sure you mean "back to back"houses? True b-to-b houses had only one door because the back of these houses were joined to the back of the ones behind, there was no passage seperating them. If you look at the "Add BBC tags" boxes at the top of the reply box above the Santas you will see the typical layout of a row of b-to-bs. By 1890 I don`t think they were being built anymore which makes me think you might mean terrace or terraced houses.This mistake is frequently made.You will see that there were no sanitary facilities at all, only a communal "privy" at the end of the street.These houses were only one room deep because there could only be windows at the front elevation so t here were cellars and attics. They were condemned in the 1930`s and were gradually demolished. I `m not sure when the last ones went. best of luck with your search Viktoria.
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Dear Paul, are you sure you mean "back to back"houses? True b-to-b houses had only one door because the back of these houses were joined to the back of the ones behind, there was no passage seperating them. If you look at the "Add BBC tags" boxes at the top of the reply box above the Santas you will see the typical layout of a row of b-to-bs. By 1890 I don`t think they were being built anymore which makes me think you might mean terrace or terraced houses.This mistake is frequently made.You will see that there were no sanitary facilities at all, only a communal "privy" at the end of the street.These houses were only one room deep because there could only be windows at the front elevation so t here were cellars and attics. They were condemned in the 1930`s and were gradually demolished. I `m not sure when the last ones went. best of luck with your search Viktoria.P.S the red "Rec" was so called because it was a recreation ground
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Viktoria
Of course, you are correct when I refer to back to backs I meant rows of terrraced housing. Even I am not old enough to have lived in a true back to back !
Regards
Paul
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My thanks to earlier correspondents on these pages for reviving memories and linking to startlingly clear photographs of Aden Street and its surroundings. My mum and dad moved to 20 Aden Street after the war (when dad got back from Burma in fact), there being no council houses available in the district (Withington) where my mum and I had lived in rented accommodation since 1942.
At one end of the street was a bombed and partly demolished sauce and pickle factory: the rubble was liberally sprinkled with broken bottles and strongly smelled of vinegar. At the Hillkirk St end was the newsagents and confectioners shop, run by Richard Kershaw and his wife. The oposite corner had a grocer's, which might have been a small branch of the Co-op.
Air-raid shelters were still there when we moved and were progressively demolished over the next couple of years. I recall cranes with heavy steel balls that were dropped on the reinforced concrete repeatedly until the roofs gave way. Since the end of the war, they had been been used by drinkers and young lovers and were desperately dirty - old mattresses and god-knows-what-else on the floors inside.
But signs of regeneration were around too: flats were being built at the far end of Every Street, and I watched, as a kid, while huge sewerage pipes were connected beneath the new foundation level of these buildings.
Birley Street was my school: a real culture shock after having attended the relatively tranquil little primary on Mauldeth Road, a world away from Ardwick. I recall huge brick walls, a vast playground with some very tough kids, and a "dining room" that was a daily battlefield. But I fell in love for the first time - with a girl in my class: Ann Blakeborough, daughter of a butcher on Ashton New Road.
My grandparents were in Openshaw (Ashton Hill Lane) and Audenshaw (Thrapston Avenue) and we would go to alternate homes on Sundays. In Audenshaw, Dad and I availed ourselves of the bath - a luxury unknown in Aden Street.
I tried to walk into this area some years ago, but found myself blocked - completely disoriented: no familiar land- or streetmarks to guide me back to the old roots. It was of course a huge improvement to flatten this area and start again. My parents, I know, hated their time there, with dad parodying the politicians' promise of "Homes fit for heroes". And yet . . . it was where my conscious life really began, and I still have pangs of affiliation for the post-war mix that was this part of Manchester. And maybe it gave me a resilience for which I ought to be thankful.
Ian B
Hexham
Northumberland
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Hello Ian
Welcome to the rootschat site . Thank you for your input , if my parents were alive today I am sure they would have had a really good "chin -wag" with you as I have previously mentioned , they originated from the Ardwick area .
Ashton Hill Lane the home of the famous Robertsons Jam Works :)
You have some very helpful members on this site and I hope you enjoy the topics that are posted.
Regards
Eric :)
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My mum was a 'war baby' born in 1939, my nana and grandad (when he returned from the war) lived in Every street.
From what I remember Nana ran either a Chip shop or a Pie & Mash shop in the area, and also at some point a pub, but i dont know which ones.
Nana took me around the area when I was a child & pointed out where she had lived and places she worked - she worked as a seamstress as well for a long time before she married and I remember her taking down a street down near where Ancoats shopping precinct is now and showing me a dark dingy mill still making clothes (this would have been around the 1970s maybe)
Gaille
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My thanks to Eric for your welcome to these pages and to Gaille for adding more facts into the fuzzy mix that is my memory of Ardwick 60-odd years ago. My mis-remembered house number - it was 12 Aden Street, not 20 that we occupied - which underlines the fragile nature of our witness. But some things very definitely do stick reliably to the old brain. There was a mortar-making works in Lime Bank Steet, and their lorries left cement tread marks on the street. The works was close by another - the Candied Peel Factory - that was on the 1922 map I have of the area. I bet there wasn't much local call for their products.
We used to go to Blackpool or Morecambe for our holidays, and went in a coach run by Claribel, a firm just along Ashton Old Road past Viaduct Street.
As a nipper, I walked for miles on my own and recall many areas of open waste land, especially between Ardwick and Ancoats, where deserted churches or industrial buildings stood in the middle of nothing. And there were murky, toxic waters where the Medlock and sundry canal tributaries had run through the remains of dyeworks and iron foundries.
That 1922 map - a Godfrey reproduction of the original county plan - shows that the whole area was festooned with industry of every kind, most of it grossly polluting, and all serviced by an extraordinary network of railway lines reaching out from London Road and Ancoats stations to Ashton and beyond.
I wonder whether any of the streets and structures remain, hidden away and overlooked by the developers and planners. Just a nostalgic thought . . .
Ian
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Hi, Ian. I lived just down the road from Aden Street, in Helsby St. This was just before the war. I went to Bank Meadow infants school. Do you remember Dolly Reid's shop on Ashton Old Road? She sold all sorts of fascinating toys, water pistols, etc. Also, we had Hampson's beer house on the corner of Helsby Street. Today, it would be called an off-licence.
We lived at No. 38 Helsby Street, and my grandparents lived at no. 57. The rest of the family lived in Beswick and Bradford. People didn't move very far in those days.
Sadly, all gone.
Eric.
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Hello, I am new to this wonderful site and I was just wondering whether anyone remembers a place called Bungo Park in Ardwick. My family moved out of Lime Bank Street around 1970 when the street was demolished during the slum clearance programme. I was very young but I have a vivid memory of being taken to watch my school football team (the original Bank Meadow) play football at this park. I have walked around the area recently but have been unable to find it. I presume it no longer exists, but does anyone know exactly where it was?
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Hello, Millerman, and welcome aboard :)
I am currently re-structuring my 1930s online map of the area, but don't recall seeing that particular park. If I come across anything, I will let you know.
Eric
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Thanks Eric. I was only five-years-old when we left the area so my memories are a bit hazy. But I can remember going to watch the Bank Meadow football team with my grandad - I can even remember that we won 9-1! I think the park was very close to Pin Mill Brow and the name Bungo Park may have been an abbreviation of Bunghole Park, so it may have had something to do with drainage of the Medlock.
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Thanks Eric. I was only five-years-old when we left the area so my memories are a bit hazy. But I can remember going to watch the Bank Meadow football team with my grandad - I can even remember that we won 9-1! I think the park was very close to Pin Mill Brow and the name Bungo Park may have been an abbreviation of Bunghole Park, so it may have had something to do with drainage of the Medlock.
Looking at 2 maps from 1915 & 1939 Just off Pin Mill Brow on Helmet Street you can see a Recreation Ground but sadly does not give a name.
Google Earth now shows it as an Industrial Estate.
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Also check out
http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/
Helmet Street - Bank Meadow - Lime Bank Street - Pin Mill Brow
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Thanks MancsMan. I have found an old map and located the Recreation Ground you spotted. That looks to be the place with the River Medlock, it seems, running underneath the park. I'll have a traipse down there to have a look. Pity about the industrial estate.
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Google Street View has that Helmet Street covered as well ;)
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Finding this thread is a great and unexpected delight!
I found Ian's post through Google, searching for Birley Street School, which was my school until the age of 6.
Home was at 30 Chatsworth Steet, and Butcher Blakeborough's shop was on the "main road" close to our house - my mum shopped there, and I remember a hint of jealousy from my dad, who always thought that the butcher fancied my mum.
Other things that come immediately to mind are the Red Wreck (possibly "Red Rec"?) referred to in this thread, Winstanly's Sweet Shop (he was a councillor?) selling vimto lollies, and the Jolly Carter pub on Ashton New Road, whose back yard and mens' urinal were just across the "entry" from my bedroom window, causing great consternation to my mum when I innocently repeated some of the language I heard late in the evening, as a 3 or 4 year old.
I'll try to recall more that might be of interest here: the screensaver on my PC is a nice picture of Chatsworth Street, so I'm attaching that.
My thanks to earlier correspondents on these pages for reviving memories and linking to startlingly clear photographs of Aden Street and its surroundings. My mum and dad moved to 20 Aden Street after the war (when dad got back from Burma in fact), there being no council houses available in the district (Withington) where my mum and I had lived in rented accommodation since 1942.
At one end of the street was a bombed and partly demolished sauce and pickle factory: the rubble was liberally sprinkled with broken bottles and strongly smelled of vinegar. At the Hillkirk St end was the newsagents and confectioners shop, run by Richard Kershaw and his wife. The oposite corner had a grocer's, which might have been a small branch of the Co-op.
Air-raid shelters were still there when we moved and were progressively demolished over the next couple of years. I recall cranes with heavy steel balls that were dropped on the reinforced concrete repeatedly until the roofs gave way. Since the end of the war, they had been been used by drinkers and young lovers and were desperately dirty - old mattresses and god-knows-what-else on the floors inside.
But signs of regeneration were around too: flats were being built at the far end of Every Street, and I watched, as a kid, while huge sewerage pipes were connected beneath the new foundation level of these buildings.
Birley Street was my school: a real culture shock after having attended the relatively tranquil little primary on Mauldeth Road, a world away from Ardwick. I recall huge brick walls, a vast playground with some very tough kids, and a "dining room" that was a daily battlefield. But I fell in love for the first time - with a girl in my class: Ann Blakeborough, daughter of a butcher on Ashton New Road.
My grandparents were in Openshaw (Ashton Hill Lane) and Audenshaw (Thrapston Avenue) and we would go to alternate homes on Sundays. In Audenshaw, Dad and I availed ourselves of the bath - a luxury unknown in Aden Street.
I tried to walk into this area some years ago, but found myself blocked - completely disoriented: no familiar land- or streetmarks to guide me back to the old roots. It was of course a huge improvement to flatten this area and start again. My parents, I know, hated their time there, with dad parodying the politicians' promise of "Homes fit for heroes". And yet . . . it was where my conscious life really began, and I still have pangs of affiliation for the post-war mix that was this part of Manchester. And maybe it gave me a resilience for which I ought to be thankful.
Ian B
Hexham
Northumberland
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I was born in 64 and was dragged up for my first few years in Beaumont st Beswick just near Johnsons Wire Works (still in operation late 80's) on Grey Mare Lane (if it was still called that on that side of Ashton road).
Does anyone remember a grotty (by then) ice cream factory behind the wire works ? I have vague memories of going down there on a saturday with a bowl, getting it filled with ice cream by this really old guy dressed in a white coat.
My mum used to work in a sweet shop owned by a relative (whos name escapes me) near to the gasometer next to the cem.
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My husband's mother and her parents and siblings lived at 161 Grey Mare Lane from sometime between 1901 and 1911, in fact my mother-in-law still lived there in 1936 when she got married. What the area was like then, I have no idea.
Lizzie
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Mcr library has a lot of good pics from the early 60's & 50's
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/ResultsList.php?session=pass&QueryName=BasicQuery&QueryPage=/index.php?session=pass&Restriction=&StartAt=1&Anywhere=SummaryData|AdmWebMetadata&QueryTerms=grey%20mare%20lane&QueryOption=Anywhere
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Sorry,
that search wont translate to a URL
try this and type Grey Mare lane in the cearch box
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/
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Thank you for the link. I've looked at the photos, although most of them are from the 1960s. As I have no idea of the geography of the area, I don't know whether 161 was east, west, north or south of Grey Mare Lane, I do know my m.i.l was so "superior" she would hate to think I knew where she'd been brought up.
She was 35 when she married and very set in her ways. I often wonder why she married a widower with 2 small children, who had, only a year before, not only lost his wife, but a baby daughter. In her case, she was a civil servant so not in need of someone to care for her, in the monetary sense.
Lizzie
Lizzie
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I have found that google maps is usually a good indicator - many councils tried to maintain numbering systems at the request of the post office.
if you type 161 grey mare lane in it shows it as being at the junction of hopedale close which is just over Ashton New road from where I was brought up (now under the city of manchester stadium).
The area in the 30s was a very industrialised one, just over Ashton new Road was johnsons wire works, the foundary was over one sider of the road (right hand side if travelling away from Hopedale close) and the rolling mill was on the left. Even in the 80's when I was travelling to and from work in Chadderton I remember huge trucks with couldrens of white hot metal on them holding up the traffic - in the 80s it was rubber wheeled trucks, but the old rail tracks were still visible with the cobbles crossing Grey Mare lane from the foundry to the rolling mill.
Just near the junction of Grey Mare land and Ashton New road there was the Bradford pit - which will explain why Johnsons wire mill was there in the first place probably - so it was probably a rather dirty smelly area.
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Richard, Johnson & nephew was on Forge lane and not Grey mare lane.
Befor what you seen as trucks crossing from one side to the other with wire to a the chain link fencing side of the company. These were known as shuntters by the way. All traffic use to go via an under ground road and was still there till they pulled what was commonly know as "Johnson's " down. Another reason that the wire works/and none ferrouse rolling mile ( the copper rolling mill) was there was because of the canal that was built to move coal from the pit, this also ran under ground at Johnson's. The copper rolling mill was sold twice to South African companies, first i think in the 1950 and the second just befor it closed for good. Manchester steel took over part of the site in the 1970's but did not last long and Johnson's out lived that Swedish company.
I know this to be a fact as i worked there in the mid 1970's and 90 years to the day my grandfather worked there doing the exact same job as me there, befor he joined the army ww1. As for the area been dirty, that comes with all the heavy industry that was in the area at the time. Plenty of work for men back then and i loved the place and smell.
If you put " Bradford, Forge Lane " into the Manchester image web site, many photos of Johnson's pop up. Grey mare lane was on the other side of Ashton new road.
Johnson's offices in it's hey day (http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=42021)
Migky ;)
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A little of the history of that pit & of the area around there.
Bradford Coliery Manchester (http://www.pittdixon.go-plus.net/bradford-colliery/bradford-colliery.htm)
Around Phillips park/Johnson's and the pit (http://www.philipspark.org.uk/Sites/MedlockValley/Objects/PDFs/Memories.pdf)
Migky :D
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Hulme Hall Lane ran from Oldham Rd. to just past the top of Bradford Rd. After that at Cemetery Rd. it split and the left fork was Mll St and the right fork was Forge Lane. After Ashton new Rd. it became Grey Mare Lane. Bradford pit on the left and Johnson`s on the right were between Philip`s Park Rd and Beaumont St.
on Forge Lane .
There was a sweet shop on the corner of Bradford Rd. and Hulme Hall Lane opposite Clifton St corner and facing the big railway bridge which crossed Hulme Hall Lane which was just before the cemetery gates, at Cemetery Rd.There was a gasometer opposite, still is I think.I used to get the 53 bus to get to school there.
Viktoria.
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Thank you menwuk, Mr. MIGKY and Viktoria, I'm going to make a note of what you have all said and add it to my family history.
Lizzie
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Hi Lizzie, you should be able to work out where every thing was and is now if you use Eric's maps and google earth street view.
Hulme hall lane (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=hulme+hall+lane+manchester&rlz=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Hulme+Hall+Ln,+Manchester,+Greater+Manchester+M40+8&gl=uk&ei=-ZOHTJTRNIOJ4Qa4sPnRBA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ8gEwAA) & Eric's Maps (http://www.artus-familyhistory.com/source/Early%20Maps.html/)
Combined with Manchester image web site photos
On Google earth street view, you will see that the city of Manchester stadium now sits on the site that use to be Johnsons's
Migky ;)
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Thank you Migky, I've worked out where Grey Mare Lane is, in relation to parts of Manchester I do know (I should say used to know). I'm sure if I ever went back, everything would have changed, with all the new roads, motorways etc.
Lizzie
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I and we get bbc tv too :o
There is no stopping us now ya no's ;D
Migky ;)
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Have you tried searching on google books?
http://books.google.com/
There are all sorts of interesting things on there - from fully digitised old books, to partial snippets of new books.
Milly ;D
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I and we get bbc tv too :o
There is no stopping us now ya no's ;D
Migky ;D ;D You know what I mean. I left the Altrincham area where I used to live about 50 years ago, and know that since then there have been motorways built everywhere, even Manchester. When I was a child it took us all day to get to North Wales, now it seems it's just a trip up the motorway. ::) ::) In fact, my cousin who lives in Lymm, says I wouldn't recognise the area if I ever went back.
Lizzie
ps. Are we getting a bit off the topic here?
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ps. Are we getting a bit off the topic here?
Lizzie
I think we got off the topic when we left Ardwick and wondered into Beswick/Openshaw & Bradford, but what the heck, tiz nice to wonder down memory lane ;D
Migky ;)
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All I ever knew about Openshaw, was there was a tech there that my brother used to go to. Was/Is Manchester City's ground in that area?
I'd never even heard of Bradford, Manchester until I started researching my husband's family tree. I had heard of Beswick but never connected it with Ardwick or Openshaw. The only bit of Manchester I knew, apart from the centre, from Knott Mill up Deansgate, Market Street and Piccadilly etc. was Harpurhey because that's where my gran and aunts and uncles lived, even then I only knew the bit where they lived, but I only ever went in my dad's van (and later car).
Even though my parents both came from Harpurhey/Blackley, they didn't show me where they used to live when children, although I've since found the areas, Crab Lane etc. on the Images of Manchester site.
Lizzie
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Tiz still there Lizzie Bro's college (http://otcmancat.co.uk/) they even on "Freirnds reunited" site Openshaw tach on Freinds reunited (http://www.friendsreunited.com/School.page/Openshaw_Technical_College/377854/Details)
The colege is on the corner of Clyton lane south and Witwoth street, both Openshaw. You can see the place on Google earth street veiw The colege on street veiw (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&q=clayton+lane+south++openshaw+manchester&rlz=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Clayton+Ln+S,+Manchester,+Greater+Manchester+M12+5&gl=uk&ei=r9iITNK6N4-RjAfYnbGbCQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CBYQ8gEwAA)
Migky ;)
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My brother wouldn't bother with Friendsreunited, he's been in USA for over 40 years and finds it hard enough to remember his family, except when it suits him. You can tell I don't like him, we never got on as kids even though only 18 months apart in age.
Lizzie
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hi paul
i live in ardwick and most of the old buildings have gone now most people will remember the strewarts building as that was the main way people would get new clothes as they could pay a stewarts collecter every week .that building got knocked down about 3 years ago they have not built anything in its place as yet .i live near the ardwick park area .so if you want me to check on any thing let me know
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Hi,
I too used to play in Bungo Park, back in the 60'S, I dont think that was its real name because it shows on old maps as Helmet St Recreation ground,
I remember it having a wall all round it, and gravel football area, There wasnt a blade of grass ! there were swings, roundabout, see saw and one of those long rides like a rocking horse which would seat about 6 kids at a time, it always had a Parkie who stayed in his hut, and would only come out if he thought there was any trouble! I dont think many kids knew about the park as it was quite hidden away and most of the housing was cleared, Many happy days were spent there. :)
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Hi, I was trying to find out a bit about my late mother's life as a teacher during the war at Birley Street School (1943-1946) on the web. There was no mention of Birley St in my A-Z of Manchester but fortunately I found this fascinating thread.
Her name was Miss Walsh and used to travel from Chorley to Manchester Victoria/Exchange then take the tram to Beswick. She said it was a tough school but she seemed to do well there (at the Senior Boys department) She was only in her early 20s then.
Her class was 40 boys taking over from a man and was responsible for all the science in the school and also took dramatics. and supported the school football team. Her headmaster, who wrote her glowing reference was a Mr J. Boughey, the headmaster.
Hope this is of interest - perhaps someone might know the names.
Felix
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Hello and welcome Felix, the school you are talking about was in-between Hillkirk street and Devon Street Beswick. There is a photo of the school on Manchester image web site.
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/web/objects/common/webmedia.php?irn=77714
You can also locate it on this 1930's map of Manchester curticy of rootschater 0rinoco
aka Eric
Section: 3C http://www.artus-familyhistory.com/source/Early%20Maps.html/Manchester%20c.1930/2c%201930.html
There also some photos of some of the class mates on friendsreunited
A mention on the BBC's web site of the Manchester Children Evacuated
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/10/a2758610.shtml
J.D.
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Might be worth getting in touch with Greater Manchester county records to see if they hold anything ?
56 Marshall Street
New Cross
Manchester
M4 5FU
Telephone 0161 832 5284
email archiveslocalstudies[at]manchester.gov.uk
J.D.
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Thanks, JD - I found those useful links after I posted my note. Amazing that that ladder of streets has vanished without trace. I guess many of my mother's pupils lived there. I wasn't going to take it any further. I guess her tram would have come down Ashton New Road from Victoria.
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Just found this wonderful thread when searching for info on Johnson's wire works where my grandad worked post WW1 till he retired in the 60's. The Palmer family lived in 176 Grey Mare lane and my parent's and I lived there until we moved to Stott St. Auntie Hilda lived in Baden St.
Does anyone know the correct links for 'erics maps' or for the artus-fh site please?
Does anyone have a map superimposing the new MCFC/Etihad stadium on the old maps - my IT skills are not up to that standard. many thanks. Anne
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Does anyone have a map superimposing the new MCFC/Etihad stadium on the old maps - my IT skills are not up to that standard. many thanks. Anne
This site lets you overlay old maps with new...just zoom right in to the bit you want, then drag the map about with your mouse
http://www.ponies.me.uk/maps/osmap.html
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Hello feli, I mentioned your late mother`s name to my O.H and yes he remembers her very well.
He was there from being 11 to 14, which was the leaving age in those days.
He sat the eleven plus, but all he wanted was to play football for BirleySt. with his older brother, so refused go to grammar school.
However he was bright and got a good job and some respectable qualifications. Boys from Birley St. were sought after and my O.H replaced another Birley St. boy who had made a very good impression and the head of the firm asked the school for another of the same calibre.
He did play with his brother on the school team and went on to play for several amateur teams. Both boys had trials for proffessional teams but their dad insisted they got qualifications on the basis tht if injured and their career ended they would have nothing to fall back on. No million pounds a day for footballers in the 1940`s!
It averaged out at about £9.00 a week.
Cheerio Viktoria.
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Does anyone know the correct links for 'erics maps' or for the artus-fh site please?
Does anyone have a map superimposing the new MCFC/Etihad stadium on the old maps - my IT skills are not up to that standard. many thanks. Anne
Hello, Anne. The updated address for my maps is http://www.artus-familyhistory.com/source/Early%20Maps.html Manchester 1930 would be best for you.
You can find an overlay of the Eastlands ground at http://www.eastlandsblue.co.uk/eastlands%20map.htm
Hope this helps.
Eric
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To Rocles and Orinoco
Thank you both for your fantastic links to the various maps and overlays.
Wonderful for my research and to show my mum and bring back her memories. ;D
Many thanks :)
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For maps, have a look at www.old-maps.co.uk
Heather
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Thanks All,
I never imagined such a thread when I made my initial request. I have lived overseas for some years now but lived in Rowen St, Ardwick until I was 10 and then they began the demolition of the whole area.
My maternal Grandparents lived in Coalbrook St and paternal in Devon St. Dads brothers and sisters all lived within half a mile and mostly went to Birley St School. I went to St Anns, Upper Cyrus St and then St Gregorys at Ardwick Green. The whole of what makes me what I am was determined by this environment. Any you know what..... I would not change a thing.
Paul
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My Mum went to Birley Street school on the 11+. She was there for 3 years and knows the area. She lived in Baslow Street near the Red Wreck :0).
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Hi All
Completely new to this .I am trying to find if there was a Vulcan St Beswick in 1891. My wife's family lived there.
George Smith occupation Baker
Elizabeth Tunaley(wife)
We are planning to visit from Australia in May and would like any info available .
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Hi All
Completely new to this . I am looking for information on my wife's family . Her great grandfather supposedly lived in Vulcan st Beswick in 1891
I can only find Vulcan st Oldham and I am wondering if this st no longer exists .
George Jarvis Smith (baker)aged 45 in 1891 cesus. Any help would be greatly appreciated
Regards John
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Welcome to the Lancashire board John :D
Vulcan St in Beswick doesn't exist any more. If you go on Google maps/earth etc and look for Gurney St, Manchester M4; at the junction of Gurney St and Palmerston St there is a North Ridge High School. Vulcan St was within the school area.
There is an old photo of Vulcan St on the Manchester council images website
http://images.manchester.gov.uk/index.php?session=pass
put Vulcan in the search box and Vulcan St is 2nd of the search results, titled "Ardwick, Vulcan St from Hillkirk St"
:) Barbara
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Thank you Barbra for the quick reply . I thought this may be the case and didnt want to waste travel time when we visit next year
Thanks again
john
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Fascinated reading this thread. We lived on Spire Street (next along to Rowen Street Paul) until 1968 when we moved to Wythenshawe just before the clearance. All 3 of us went to St Annes. I guess we must have played together as children as we often used to go into Rowen Street.
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Hello feli, I mentioned your late mother`s name to my O.H and yes he remembers her very well.
He was there from being 11 to 14, which was the leaving age in those days.
He sat the eleven plus, but all he wanted was to play football for BirleySt. with his older brother, so refused go to grammar school.
However he was bright and got a good job and some respectable qualifications. Boys from Birley St. were sought after and my O.H replaced another Birley St. boy who had made a very good impression and the head of the firm asked the school for another of the same calibre.
He did play with his brother on the school team and went on to play for several amateur teams. Both boys had trials for professional teams but their dad insisted they got qualifications on the basis tht if injured and their career ended they would have nothing to fall back on. No million pounds a day for footballers in the 1940`s!
It averaged out at about £9.00 a week.
Cheerio Viktoria.
Viktoria - only just found this reply, so thanks.
there was a radio programme on BBC Radio 4 recently about the Horsfall Art Gallery in Ancoats
It is here, but not sure how long it will remain available...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06mccpr
A 92 year old woman is interviewed in the programme who attended Birley Street Elementary School and who remembers her visits to the art gallery [now demolished] as a little slice of luxury away from the very poor neighbourhood the pupils lived in. I think the name she gives is Irene Hill.
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Does anyone remember Wycliffe Street?
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Hi,
I have been going through my Dads old photos and thought this may be of interest.
It is a school photo of his class at Birley Street School, Beswick, taken in 1925.
He lived at Devon Street Beswick which was just round the corner.
The teacher is Mrs Pearson and my Dad, Cliff Harrison, is on the second row from the back, 3rd from the right.
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A really good read is a book called Mary Barton written by Elizabeth Gaskell in 1850's. It's set in Ardwick, Chorlton on Medlock, Ancoats and gives a real flavour of the area in mid 19th century. If you're feeling really academic, read the Penguin Classics edition for loads of background info.
After getting bored with reading some of the lightweight novels I usually download onto my Kindle, I decided to download some classics and one of them was Mary Barton. I found it very interesting, especially the historical aspect of it written by someone who was there at the time, rather than latter day historians who can only give you facts.
If you go to www.gutenberg.org you will find over 60,000 free ebooks you can download. My husband has an old Kindle and can just download direct, with my Kindle paperwhite, it is a bit more complicated but still easy.
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Thanks for the school photo.
Not only did my dad attend Birley Street School but he also lived on Devon St with my gran and his many brothers and sisters. The picture is a little too early for him to be shown, however, his brothers Bill, Ted and George also went there and were all older than him so perhaps one of them is on the photo?
Paul
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Thanks for the school photo.
Not only did my dad attend Birley Street School but he also lived on Devon St with my gran and his many brothers and sisters. The picture is a little too early for him to be shown, however, his brothers Bill, Ted and George also went there and were all older than him so perhaps one of them is on the photo?
Paul
Hi Paul,
Yes, they may well be on it and they may have been neighbours. My Dad and his Parents and younger Brother lived at 47 Devon Street, but also moved to a couple of other addresses on the same road.
I've just started researching my family tree and found that in the late 1800's one of my Grandads Uncles decided to go to South Africa for work as there were opportunities in diamond mining.
He must have done well, but as he was returning to England he found that someone had gone through his bags and stolen his diamonds. Luckily he had kept some in a money belt on his person and when he returned to Manchester he sold them and used the money to buy 14 houses on Devon Street!
It may be why my Grandad, and at least one other relation, moved to Devon Street.
Martin
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It was a tough area, but ,and I wish I remember his name, The Headteacher was a wonderful man by all accounts.
The boys leaving were sought after, they were disciplined - by that I mean they could behave well etc.
Some were ,as my husband was, in the second recording of Nymphs and Sheoherds ,during the war.
Birley St often won a Schoolboy’s cup for football ,my husband’s ambition was to play on the team with his brother.
He refused to go to Grammar School so he could go to Birley St.
He wrote his name on the exam paper but nothing else!
When you look at the size of classes in those days!
Fifty children in that ohotograph.
Viktoria.
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Just looked at information on my family tree and see that my husband's mother was admitted to Birley Street Higher Elementary on 4 August 1911 (bit odd as she was 10 then) and left on 27 May 1915 for a secondary school. I don't know which secondary school, I guess Birley Street School that you are all talking about. At the time she lived on Grey Mare Lane. She was born in Baslow Street, Beswick. Sometime before she was born the family lived in Wardlaw Street. Her father went to Armitage Road School in the 1880s.
Modified - checked on FindMyPast and it seems she went to Birley Street School in 1904 thenshe then went to Birley Street Higher Elementary on 4 August 1911, when she was 10 and then in 1915 when she was 14 she left school. My late brother in law gave us the original information, which he obviously didn't get quite right, he was researching in the days when you had to visit record offices to view records.
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Hi Martin,
I am not sure about the address on Devon Street but I have a feeling it was 114 or 117 perhaps. It was close to a coal yard and the entry that led to Viaduct St and the footbridge over the railway and then to the park. Surname is Carter.
Paul
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Hi Lizzie,
The school is in the area you mention.
Paul
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Paul - I've just modified my post. The school is the same, just info slightly different.
I was born in Manchester but was taken back to my parents home in Cheshire, so although I used to go into Manchester frequently, going up on the electric train from Altrincham (1940s/50s) I never ventured into Ancoats and Beswick so don't know the area at all. My dad's relatives lived in North Manchester, Harpurhey/Blackley area so I knew that part of Manchester a bit.
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Hi Martin,
I am not sure about the address on Devon Street but I have a feeling it was 114 or 117 perhaps. It was close to a coal yard and the entry that led to Viaduct St and the footbridge over the railway and then to the park. Surname is Carter.
Paul
I think my grandparents moved from Viaduct Street to Devon Street. This old map shows the location of both streets well, and Birley Street School.
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Hi
Do you have the date of this map as it doesnt show Rowen St (or a few others) where I grew up? You can find Coalbrook St and then there is a gap where there were 3 or 4 more streets. I had thought they were all built more or less at the same time but perhaps not......
Paul
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Hi
Do you have the date of this map as it doesnt show Rowen St (or a few others) where I grew up? You can find Coalbrook St and then there is a gap where there were 3 or 4 more streets. I had thought they were all built more or less at the same time but perhaps not......
Paul
Hi Paul,
I think the pink map is from 1857.
This is an even earlier one of the same area from around 1813.
Cheers
Martin
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Hi
Do you have the date of this map as it doesnt show Rowen St (or a few others) where I grew up? You can find Coalbrook St and then there is a gap where there were 3 or 4 more streets. I had thought they were all built more or less at the same time but perhaps not......
Paul
Hi Paul,
I think the pink map is from 1857.
This is an even earlier one of the same area from around 1813.
Cheers
Martin
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Thanks Martin,
The 1857 map shows Coalbrook Street which was the next one along to ours (Rowen St). My maternal grandparents lived there and I would never have though it was that old. I had been told that Rowen St was built in the 1890's so the dates work.
There was a difference in the design of our house and that of my grandparents. We had three rooms downstairs with a single storey kitchen extension and they were two up and two down. The staircase in our house split the house in the middle into the front and back rooms whereas in my grandparents it was against the side wall in the back room.
Paul
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Hi, Ian. I lived just down the road from Aden Street, in Helsby St. This was just before the war. I went to Bank Meadow infants school. Do you remember Dolly Reid's shop on Ashton Old Road? She sold all sorts of fascinating toys, water pistols, etc. Also, we had Hampson's beer house on the corner of Helsby Street. Today, it would be called an off-licence.
We lived at No. 38 Helsby Street, and my grandparents lived at no. 57. The rest of the family lived in Beswick and Bradford. People didn't move very far in those days.
Sadly, all gone.
Eric.
Hello Eric,
I've just started searching for maps of Manchester from the 1960s and found this old thread about Ardwick terraces. Interesting to see your grandparents lived at no. 57 Helsby Street as that is the house I was born in! What years were your grandparents living there?
Nicola.