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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: setraynor on Wednesday 08 December 04 23:00 GMT (UK)

Title: Mystery occupations. Can anyone explain what they were?
Post by: setraynor on Wednesday 08 December 04 23:00 GMT (UK)
I'm helping to transcribe part of the 1841 Census and I am completely stumped over the following occupations.  ???  Anyone out there with some bright ideas on what they are?


duss maker (possibly a dress maker? I've been told it could be"Dressmaker ~ the occupation of 'dressmaker' was commonly given by prostitutes in larger towns and cities.")
duss maid
duss m possible the same as dressmaker above as . m is often used instead of maker?
h s
show m f
grocer sn
grocer li

Any thoughts?
Sharon
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: RJ_Paton on Wednesday 08 December 04 23:08 GMT (UK)
grocer li

could be licensed grocer as in licensed to sell alcohol etc. as well as foodstuffs
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: teddybear1843 on Wednesday 08 December 04 23:19 GMT (UK)
Try
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/w.html
that will take you onto the W page but you will just need to navigate.

Teddybear
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: setraynor on Wednesday 08 December 04 23:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the link. It has given a couple of possibilities for H S (High Sheriff/ Hush Shopkeeper).  Licenced Grocer seems logical too.

Still stumped on the 'Duss' ones, the grocer sn & show m f (maybe that's a showman fairground??)
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: RJ_Paton on Wednesday 08 December 04 23:28 GMT (UK)
could the grocer sn be grocer gn

as in greengrocer ?
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: setraynor on Wednesday 08 December 04 23:45 GMT (UK)
Looks like sn to me but it is a squiggle. I'm trying to get a picture of the entry but Adobe isn't playing ball at the moment. I'll try tomorrow evening & copy all the squiggly writing.
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: polly on Sunday 23 January 05 15:45 GMT (UK)
could dudd maid be a dust maid dusting furniture and breakables
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: laineychr on Friday 28 January 05 21:14 GMT (UK)
Just looking on the reply dressmaker I hope the ones in my family were really dressmakers because there are an awfull lot of them. :-[
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: Paul E on Monday 31 January 05 11:58 GMT (UK)
I'd love to know what a 'Witch Well Hole Maker' is, stumbled across in 1881 census (James Middleton, 56, Islington, Middlesex).

Possible mistranscription of:

Watch Wall Hole Maker ???  In which case, I would love to know what one of them is!

best wishes

Paul

Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: Mobo on Monday 31 January 05 17:39 GMT (UK)
 ;) ;) ;)

Could be that grocers sn could be Grocer's Son and grocer li could be Grocer Licenced

 ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: emilysiobhan on Tuesday 01 February 05 06:03 GMT (UK)
Regarding Pauls Witch well hole maker....there is a watch jewel hole maker also on the 1881 census.....could this have turned into a witch well?

 Herbert ASTON      Son            Male      14      Coventry, Warwick, England      Watch Jewel Hole Maker (Apprentice)
Public Records Office Reference     RG11
    Piece / Folio     3068 / 95
    Page Number     25

Actually theres quite a few ..particularly in Coventry with also a few in London.
Was Coventry a big watch making place in 1881??

Otherwise there are quite a few button hole makers..are there any strange buttons called a witch well??

Best Regards,

Emily
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 08:37 GMT (UK)
Thank you for clearing that one up Emily!

Wonder if he was responsible for making the hole or making the jewel?

best wishes

Paul
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Tuesday 01 February 05 09:00 GMT (UK)
I tried googling  watch jewell hole maker but got too many hits,
so I then tried watch "jewell hole" maker
and got two hits:

1) ... Coventry, Warwickshire, England Note: Timerick||David||married||50||jewell hole
maker
||. ... England Note: Timerick||Samuel||married||30||watch finisher||Coventry ...  

.... but with a dead link, and

2)
This would seem to be his family on the 1901 Census index living in Leyton....

Joseph Hough: [b.c. 1853, London St Lukes] Jewell Hole Marker
Florence Hough: [b.c. 1860, London Bermondsey]
Henrietta Hough: [b.c. 1878, Essex Leyton] Jewel Hole Maker

at http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/HOUGH/2003-11/1070143337

Still doesn't explain what they did !!  Probably need a watchmaker's site for that.
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Tuesday 01 February 05 09:16 GMT (UK)
Oooops ---- I tried spelling it right this time  (  :-[ )

            watch "jewel hole" maker

Got lots of hits including this one: http://www.watches-lexic.ch/pages/eng/tec/exp3.htm  with a full explanation of jewel holes and pictures to go with it.   --- all to do with shock absorbers and things !!

Fascinating reading ---- if you are interested.  :)

And if not, it's nice to know that the information is always there, if you can find it   ;D
Title: Re: What are these occupations?
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 09:51 GMT (UK)
WOW that's technical, Bob!  Detailed is not the word.  Thanks for the link! :)

Paul
Title: Mystery occupations. Can anyone explain what they were?
Post by: Shanko on Tuesday 01 February 05 15:56 GMT (UK)
Have found an ancestor with an occupation of Confectioner BUT also has next to it Slue Keeper. What in the dobbledocks is a Slue Keeper?

 :-\
Shanko
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Shanko

Could it be sluice keeper?  Did they live near a canal/waterway/lock?  If so, they may have been responsible for opening and closing the sluice gates when required.

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:03 GMT (UK)
First stop, Google;  found a reference: " ...as fish in pond or slue get loose  ... "

which made me think of drains, or a canal or sluice ...

and while I was thinking about it, Casalguidi posted her entry !
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Shanko on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:09 GMT (UK)
Casalguidi + Berlin Bob

No they didnt live near any docks and the occupation is exactly as this: Confectioner Slue Keeper. So it has me stuck. I have other ancestors who were Confectioners but only that

I have looked on many many websites with old occupations but nothing with Confectioner Slue Keeper, not even Confectioner some of them

Shanko
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:15 GMT (UK)
Wonder if it has anything to do with sloes and gin?

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:18 GMT (UK)
Also found a Google reference to slue / slough, and the following (US) definitions for slough:[

n]  any outer covering that can be shed or cast off (such as the cast-off skin of a snake)
[n]  a stagnant swamp (especially as part of a bayou)
[n] a hollow filled with mud
[n]  necrotic tissue; a mortified or gangrenous part or mass
[v]  cast off hair, skin, horn, or feathers; of animals

Not sure if that gets you anywhere!

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: suttontrust on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:19 GMT (UK)
This may be ridiculous, but could it be really bad handwriting for "shop keeper"?
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Biker on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:20 GMT (UK)
Got me curious ... 

Is the Slue part quite clear on your document?  Sure it's not shop keeper?
Is the document online on a census so we can have a look perhaps? 

In any case good luck
Jonathan
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Shanko on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:21 GMT (UK)
Now gin sounds more like my ancestors
Seriously thanks Paul but none of those would fit with a Confectioner
:(

Shanko
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Hackstaple on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:22 GMT (UK)
Store keeper?
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Shanko on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:25 GMT (UK)
Suttontrust - nope definatly not shop keeper
Johnathan - yes it is clear as and it does say Slue Keep after Confectioner
Hackstaple - Nope not store thats too many letters anyways :(

Id put the occupation bit up but god knows how you put an image up in here

Shanko
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:26 GMT (UK)
Now gin sounds more like my ancestors

They laughed, and slued themselves round. --Dickens.
        [1913 Webster]

Yes, now that Sutton Trust and Hackstaple have mentioned it ... shop sounds more feasible!

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:27 GMT (UK)
Can you give us the name, age and county and the census it's in and we can look for it?

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Shanko on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:30 GMT (UK)
Just got it out and looked again and above all the Confectioner Slue Keeper it has Sweet (something) Bread

Sweet Bread ..... EWW! now that is gross!
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:48 GMT (UK)
Well, it sure looks like Slue - but I'm sure the well-trained eyes of Rootschatters will work this one out! ;D
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: suttontrust on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:48 GMT (UK)
For all our sakes, post the image and put us out of our misery.
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Shanko on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:55 GMT (UK)
Paul
Thank you for putting it up for me. Comical though I can do html with tables etc but putting an image on here I havent a clue!

See told everyone it is Slue so now back to the original question what is a Confectioner Slue Keeper?

 ;D
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: blinky on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:55 GMT (UK)
am i the only one who doesnt think it looks like confectioner?
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 16:59 GMT (UK)
I think blinky's got it! :)

The 't' in confectioner looks like an 'l', so the 'l' in slue must be a 't' and Hackstaple wins the money because it can really only be store keeper.

Paul
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Shanko on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:01 GMT (UK)
blinky,
What do you reckon it is then? ???
I have transcribed many census pages and have come across Confectioner many times and I have the cd's here as well and those images are alot clearer and I also zoomed right in and checked each letter

Shanko
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:02 GMT (UK)
I agree

I think it says confectioners store keeper.  There seems to be an "s" on the end of confectioner and note that the "t" in confectioner isn't crossed as isn't the "t" in store.  Hence the only problem would be that the "o" in store isn't an o but an "e".

Casalguidi
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:04 GMT (UK)
And, if I'm not mistaken...
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:04 GMT (UK)
I finally make it to 200 posts! ;D

Paul

Moderator Comment: Well done Paul
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: blinky on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:05 GMT (UK)
it would be interesting to see the rest of the page to compare letters.
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Biker on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:11 GMT (UK)
Shanko,

I'd settle for Confectioner(s) Store Keeper.  

I must say I'm rather envious that you have choices!!   I'm perfectly happy when my lot can be found at all on a census return which is legible and doesn't appear  to have been through the washing machine and then half burned   ;D (e.g. half of St Luke parish 1851 where my lot seemed to have dwelled!)

All the Best
Jonathan
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:15 GMT (UK)
As requested - not the whole page, but something with an e and a t for you

P
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: Paul E on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:21 GMT (UK)
appear  to have been through the washing machine and then half burned  


Anyone found any census washers or census burners in the 1901? ;D
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: blinky on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:26 GMT (UK)
well i think shanko could be right,who ever wrote it doesnt cross their ts .
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: RJ_Paton on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:32 GMT (UK)
If the first word is Sweet then the person does appear to cross their "t's" .... however I would agree that the latter section does appear to be Store Keeper.

It also looks as if different pieces of information have been given and crossed out and then the store keeper bit added as a catch all description.
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: blinky on Tuesday 01 February 05 17:34 GMT (UK)
i reckon it must have been a friday afternoon job.
Title: Re: Need help with Occupation
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 01 February 05 19:46 GMT (UK)
I believe that the three words on the top line have been added afterwards - probably by another person(s) and possibly at different times to categorise what trade/profession the occupation would come under as per census guidelines.

The middle word looks like shop.  Then somebody realised that they didn't have a shop ie. a store keeper working for a confectioner so deleted that.  Then bread is added ie. the person worked in the breadmaking industry but then that mistake is realised thus deleted.  Finally, sweet - the person worked in the sweet industry.

That seems to make sense to me.

Casalguidi
Title: Mystery occupations. Can anyone explain what they were?
Post by: laineychr on Tuesday 01 February 05 23:46 GMT (UK)
Can someone tell me what did a zinc worker ,a lime worker and a billard marker do  :-[
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: Hackstaple on Tuesday 01 February 05 23:52 GMT (UK)
I think a zinc worker is self-explanatory. A lime worker would be involved in making cement or perhaps whitewash. A billiard marker would work in a billiard hall or gentlemans club, keeping score and usually holding the stakes where there were bets on the game. 8)
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: laineychr on Wednesday 02 February 05 00:12 GMT (UK)
That was very quick thankyou. I hadn't heard of a billiard marker before.
And the zinc one  I think I must definitely be a bit dopey but what kind of self explanatory is it, would they have made pipes or would it have been used for coins
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: 'Tricia on Wednesday 02 February 05 00:13 GMT (UK)
Lime Burning

Lime (calcium oxide) was used for the manufacture of mortar and also as a fertiliser. It was discovered in medieval times that lime improved soil structure and neutralised excessive soil acidity, leading to increased crop yields. For lime-burning, only broken limestone and a source of fuel was required. The limestone was usually quarried right next to the lime-kiln site. Also used in tanneries to remove hair from hides 


Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: deadants on Wednesday 02 February 05 00:53 GMT (UK)
I thinkk the Billiard-Marker was a bit of a general man servant. here's is a reference.
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:Nq1W7b4cslMJ:www.eaba.co.uk/mags/bn/1875/1225/markersChristmasBox.html+what+was+a+billiard+marker&hl=en

You will also find him mentioned in various works of fiction. I think he was the guy who not only kept score a billiards but was Held the money when a wagerer was on a game.

If anbody has any other info on this profession, please let us know.

deadants
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: laineychr on Wednesday 02 February 05 00:58 GMT (UK)
Thankyou again for the replies
And the link I shall have a look at that asap
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: Leofric on Wednesday 02 February 05 21:37 GMT (UK)
laineychr

A zinc worker would then like now I suppose, work in the metal finishing business. Metal components are dipped in a zinc bath for the purpose of corrosion prevention.

Leofric
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: laineychr on Wednesday 02 February 05 23:00 GMT (UK)
Hi deadants.
billiard marker was the job my gggrandfather George Webb was doing 1871
census.
I've had a look at the web link. I don't think I would have lasted 2 minutes. maybe he enjoyed it?
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: deadants on Thursday 03 February 05 03:09 GMT (UK)
Hi laineychr,
their were probably good fringe benefits that made it worth while. Big tips spring to  mind. Also, Some of these guys were bookmakers, and thats were the real action was.  ;)

deadants
Title: Re: what were these occupations
Post by: suey on Saturday 05 February 05 10:46 GMT (UK)

Hi Laineychr - take a look at this site if you want to know a bit more about your Limeworker..

www.amberleymuseum.co.uk.  click on Browse Amberley - then exhibits - then Kilns

It also has info on other rural trades and crafts and is on the site of the old Peppers Lime Quarrey at Amberley West Sussex.
Title: Mystery occupations. Can anyone explain what they were?
Post by: Sue Thomas on Saturday 05 February 05 14:39 GMT (UK)
Whilst scrolling through Christenings for the chappelry of Turton I came across the following 15 April 1804 Mary d. Henry & Anne Horrocks, whitster
Further down there was a chapman. Any ideas on either of these occupations?
Title: Re: What is the most interesting occupation in your family tree?
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Saturday 05 February 05 16:21 GMT (UK)
Sue,

according to:  http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/trades.html

CHAPMAN

      [1] A dealer or pedlar of goods usually itinerant going from village to village.
      [2] A keeper of a booth or stall in a market

sounds like an older name for some of my lot (and me) Market Traders

WHITESTER or WHITSTER

      A person who bleached cloth.

Title: Re: What is the most interesting occupation in your family tree?
Post by: Sue Thomas on Saturday 05 February 05 16:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks B Bob
Title: Re: What is the most interesting occupation in your family tree?
Post by: agabenson on Monday 07 February 05 14:15 GMT (UK)
Does any kind soul or knowledgeable bod out there no what your occupation was if you were a Wire Drawer??

Was it wealthy or status giving?

Thanks a lot.

Aga
Title: Re: What is the most interesting occupation in your family tree?
Post by: Berlin-Bob on Monday 07 February 05 14:20 GMT (UK)
From: http://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/trades.html

WIRE DRAWER
A person who made wire from metal by drawing the metal through various size holes in a template.