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Research in Other Countries => Canada => Canada Lookup Request => Topic started by: Curley on Tuesday 23 December 08 21:04 GMT (UK)

Title: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Tuesday 23 December 08 21:04 GMT (UK)
Looking for guidance on how to trace Ruth Burnett who arrived in Portland ,Maine on 9 Apr 1913 on the ship Arabic. Destination is Montreal.
Born in Northern Ireland approx 1892.
Any help greatly appreciated
Curley :
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 01 January 09 18:26 GMT (UK)
If her destination was Montreal she may have been joining relatives...
Here are other Burnetts in Montreal 1911....There were likely more misstranscribed as well, so you may want to look for more names you might recognize....?
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0576/ 

 J.J.
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Thursday 01 January 09 20:15 GMT (UK)
Hi J J
Thanks for your information.Having looked more closely at the passenger list going into Portland, I see Ruth travelled with a Cizzie McBride and there fares were paid for by I think a Mrs Francis of Montreal, very hard to read. I do not know of any family names Francis,but I would not rule it out.
I did a scan of 1911 census for Ontario, but not knowing the geography I did not know which addresses were Montreal city, where I presume they were going to be domestic helps.
Any further guidance would be appreciated
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 01 January 09 20:52 GMT (UK)
This doesn't help much as I imagine she is the R.W. Burnett in an apartment 1912/1913 directory, & I don't see the same a previous year, but it doesn't state her occ.
http://bibnum2.bnquebec.ca/bna/lovell/src/1912-1913/11.Alphabetical_directory/B/Bru/110643_1912-1913_0954.pdf
street dir /apt. # 42, 731 Sherbrook West
http://bibnum2.bnquebec.ca/bna/lovell/src/1912-1913/8.Street_directory/S/6.Sa/110643_1912-1913_0584.pdf?

1913/1914/1915 at same address...
http://bibnum2.bnquebec.ca/bna/lovell/src/1913-1914/11.Alphabetical_directory/B/Bu/110643_1913-1914_0975.pdf

after 1915 no sign of her....and #42 Linton Apts is now empty...she may have married or moved away from Montreal...
http://bibnum2.bnquebec.ca/bna/lovell/src/1915-1916/7.A_street_directory_of_Montreal/S/6.Sa/110643_1915-1916_0634.pdf

do you have parent's names in case someone may find more?

No sign of Cizzie McBride...which may have actually been Lizzie ?
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 01 January 09 21:16 GMT (UK)
In 1911...name from Lipton apts. Wm Markland Molson, shows the location to be in Montreal
St. Antoine  / St. Antoine ward ( this search was for defining district only... )
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=117708

but there is no surname Francis in that ward...so no further ahead... :-X
http://www.automatedgenealogy.com/census11/Test17.jsp?sdid=7439
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Thursday 01 January 09 21:45 GMT (UK)
I took a look at the passenger list that Ruth Burnett is on in the Canadian incoming passenger list database at Ancestry and I don't think she was travelling with anyone in particular. There were at least two pages of entries that had a stamp that said "bonus allowed Mrs. Francis" and everyone was listed alphabetically that had that stamp (see attached image). It would seem Mrs. Francis was some type of recruiter for bringing domestic servants to Canada.

By the way, Montreal is in Quebec, not Ontario.

Jacquie
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Thursday 01 January 09 21:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Folks
Thanks for all your efforts.
Parents names were Robert Burnett and Minerve Foster,d 1908.
Happy New Year to all from Ireland
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Thursday 01 January 09 22:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Jacquie.
My geography is poor.
Any idea what the letters on the passenger list mean. ie C.C.E.A No 3887.
Many thanks for your interest
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Thursday 01 January 09 22:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Jacquie.
Any idea what the letters on the passenger list mean. ie C.C.E.A No 3887.
Many thanks for your interest
Curley

It's hard to read but it's actually C.G.E.A. and according to Library and Archives Canada it means:
Quote
Canadian Government Employment Agent.
These agents received commissions from the government for placing newly arrived immigrants with employers who were seeking labourers or domestics.

I have no idea how you could find out information about a specific claim number. Ruth's appears to be 38872 (the 2 is partially hidden by the "S").

Jacquie
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: KarenM on Thursday 01 January 09 23:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Curley,

There is to be a database of domestics brough to Canada on the Library and Archives Site.  It's still not up yet, and was supposed to be up Fall 2008  ::)

Perhaps once it is running there might be some information available on the different organizations or what the numbers mean.

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/genealogy/022-203.002.13-e.html

Don't worry about not knowing Canadian geography, it's a big place  ;D

Karen
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Thursday 04 November 10 11:26 GMT (UK)
Hi All
Can anyone tell me if any further developments have taken place regarding the database of domestics refered to in the previous post.
Thanks
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Monday 31 October 11 17:29 GMT (UK)
Hi All
Found some information on the afore mentioned Mrs Francis.
Mrs E W Francis,71 Drummond St, Montreal organised the Womens Domestic Guild of Canada, an organisation which brought in domestics to Canada mainly from Gt Britian.
Information is supposedly held in some archives, with the following references. RG 76, vOL,S 291 AND 292,
fILE NO 266957
I f anyone can elaborate on this information, I would appreciate it.

Thanks
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: chinakay on Tuesday 01 November 11 04:15 GMT (UK)
In 1911...name from Lipton apts. Wm Markland Molson, shows the location to be in Montreal


Just seen this thread and really can't add any pertinent information. However I can tell you who William Markland Molson was :)

A very wealthy stockbroker who owned his own seat on the stock exchange, and co-owned the Montreal Canadiens hockey team and the Montreal Forum where they played. Also a part owner of the Molson brewing company, the largest in Canada.

I used to play bridge with his son at university :)

So if Ruth was working for the Molson family she had a very nice position indeed. She would have seen the cream of Montreal society.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 01 November 11 19:04 GMT (UK)
Hi, China...unfortunately I think he was just owner of the apartment complex in which she lived for a short time.
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 02 November 11 00:59 GMT (UK)
Seems Sherbrooke Street has been renumbered. 731 is now the location of a beautiful grassy lawn by the entrance of McGill University, and the Linton Apartments is number 1509 now.

The building still exists, and here's a historical photo from the Notman Collection at the McCord Museum in Montreal, which interestingly is right next door to the Linton :) The photo is dated 1912-1913....Ruth could have been inside this building when the photo was taken!
http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/en/collection/artifacts/VIEW-12777?Lang=1&accessnumber=VIEW-12777

Whether that branch, or any branch, of the Molson family lived in the building, they could have. It's not your average apartment building, but a very elegant and expensive residence. It is, apparently, built in the Beaux-Arts architectural style, and still one of the finest examples of the style in Montreal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaux-Arts_architecture

When I knew Markland Molson's son Mark, his mother was living in Gleneagles, a hugely expensive apartment complex less than half a mile from the Linton. It's still a very upmarket part of the city.

Cheers,
China

Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 02 November 11 15:14 GMT (UK)
Curley , you are better off waiting for the domestics database to appear than to wait for a lookup at the national archives. We haven't anyone come forward who does this anymore. I should think it was a huge pain in the lower area for those who have done it, and with little thanks no doubt. I no longer do lookups unless under special circumstances. I have had people angry that my morning and partial afternoon digging through archival records hardly turned up a thing, or that the occupation wasn't what family history noted...so I had found the wrong person. Hardly much thanks for a bus trip downtown.  :P
If you are really anxious to get what is in those files, there are people who will gladly do it for payment.
It may, however, only be updates and information on her dept, and nothing on the person you seek.
But as I said, you may want to wait for the database ( did you inquire with the archives as to the promise of said database?) or for her descendants to show up and see your query.

Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Thursday 27 June 13 09:59 BST (UK)
Hi All
Have read somewhere that the 1921 census might go online in the near future.
Can anyone confirm this and where I might start looking for my lost Ruth
Many thanks
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 27 June 13 10:08 BST (UK)
Being indexed at the moment but no firm date for release, could be shortly, no one knows for definite  ???

Sandra
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Wednesday 30 October 13 14:45 GMT (UK)
Hi All
Have spent ages trying to find Ruth in the 1921 census,no success
Possible marriage may have thrown me. or worse death.
Didn,t find any emmigration.
Any pointers would be welcome
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Wednesday 11 December 13 16:24 GMT (UK)
Hi All
In my persuit of Ruth, I have found an interesting bit of information.
Jeanette Burnett Youldon, older sister of Ruth, travelled with her husband Edwin Youldon from Montreal to Belfast on the SS Regina, White Star line. Ship docked in Belfast on 14 July 1927. The documentation gives a forwarding address in London ,England on route to South Africa, their home.. They origionally travelled from Southampton on the 12 Apr 1927 to New York on the Majestic.. Possible cross border info might help.
Has anyone got access to possible booking information for this sailing, I am hoping Jeanette was possibly visiting Ruth, and the booking might contain an address for Ruth, or better still possibly a married name.
Thanks for any help
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Wednesday 11 December 13 18:27 GMT (UK)
 Jeanette made the same trip....to New York May 15th 1914...
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/JJ3X-MJH

Wonder if this might be her birth registered 1890 https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FBDC-K2K ( The initial query says 1892, but there's no changing info in older posts anymore)
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: polarbear on Wednesday 11 December 13 20:37 GMT (UK)
The manifest for the 1927 voyage to New York indicates Edwin and Jeannette were planning to stay at the Pennsylvania Hotel in New York for apparently 2-3months.

They also stayed in New York at a friend's during the 1914 trip.

So it doesn't look like they were in transit to Canada at the time. I don't see a border crossing to meet the Montreal sailing at the moment.

Edwin and Jeannette also made a trip from South Africa to London in 1937 and were going to the Regent Palace Hotel in Piccadilly.

PB
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 12 December 13 00:38 GMT (UK)
Jenette Burnett ( born 1883 for those searching) may have travelled under other spellings as well...Janet F Burnett  ( middle name Foster?) Durban, South Africa to London. Maybe an outgoing passenger list would have more from these...also ancestors on board has:
Janet Burnett age unknown 1906 / Liverpool to New York 
Jeannette Burnett age unknown 1908 / Southampton to New York

and a Jane Barnett b. Ireland age not listed1909 to Quebec in Oct 1909
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/2H2V-JSF
http://www.findmypast.co.uk/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action

also AOB has unamed YOULDON unlisted age female 1919/Liverpool to Canada/Quebec
 
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Thursday 12 December 13 04:50 GMT (UK)
A distance away, but in case a relation this couple in New York wife Mary was nee Youldon   https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/M5HJ-FYG    http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x8j/
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FMV7-6WL
Just saw the more detailed version says she was b. Devonshire so perhaps no relation
Other Youlden spellings N.Y.  http://www.rootschat.com/links/0x8k/
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Tuesday 17 December 13 19:37 GMT (UK)
Hi JJ. and Polarbear
Thanks for your info.
Looking forward to border crossing info
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Sunday 06 March 16 11:03 GMT (UK)
Hi All
Just returned after a long lay off.
Back in the fall of 2008, a database was supposed to be released relating to domestic immigrants.
As Ruth was a domestic immigrant of a Mrs Francis I wonder if anyone has any info on this database.
Many thanks
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Sunday 06 March 16 15:17 GMT (UK)
Sorry, it finally available, but she is not on it...
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/immigration/immigration-records/porters-domestics-1899-1949/Pages/search.aspx

Did you know you missed a relative back on this old thread I just found that you'd made for Jeanette?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=343859.0

This thread is searching for Ruth Burnett was born 1890 Magherafelt Ireland ...who may or may nor have remained in Montreal. Sisters Jeanette (Youldon) Ellen ( Bonner) Elizabeth ( Massey)
Do you also have parent's names as they are never mentioned are they?
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Sunday 06 March 16 19:24 GMT (UK)
HI J J
Thanks for that ,the search goes on.
Regarding the relatives in South Africa, they have visited Northern Ireland and we had a great Union,thanks to searching in Rootschat
Many thanks
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Monday 07 March 16 05:12 GMT (UK)
You didn't answer J.J.'s questions about parent names.

Jacquie
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Monday 07 March 16 08:19 GMT (UK)
Hi J J
Sorry I missed that part of your reply.
Parents were Robert Burnett and Minerva Foster, with family of six girls.
Thanks
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: chinakay on Monday 07 March 16 18:27 GMT (UK)
Just had another look at this and it seems the R. W. Burnett in the swanky Linton apartment  was Richard. He's there in the 1911 census and he's a builder. A shame, as Markland Molson did indeed live there and his neighbours would have been people who shaped the city. A lot of the names are Scottish. For what it's worth  :)

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Tuesday 08 March 16 06:32 GMT (UK)
Looking for guidance on how to trace Ruth Burnett who arrived in Portland ,Maine on 9 Apr 1913 on the ship Arabic. Destination is Montreal.
Born in Northern Ireland approx 1892.
Any help greatly appreciated
Curley :

The Canadian passenger list for the Arabic indicates Ruth was born in England. The outgoing UK passenger list for the Arabic says her last permanent residence was Scotland. Are you sure your Ruth even came to Canada.

Jacquie
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Tuesday 08 March 16 09:23 GMT (UK)
Hi J j
 My proof of Ruth going to Canada lies in the U.s Atlantic Ports Passenger List on Ancestry.
In this her last residence was Belfast,Ireland and her next of kin lived at 20 Madrid Street, Belfast, the same address Ruth lived at on the Irish Census return of 1911.
one possibility is Ruth may have worked in England between 1911 and time of sailing from Liverpool in 1913.
 With this information I am still convinced Ruth went to Canada.
 Thanks again for your interest
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: polarbear on Tuesday 08 March 16 13:34 GMT (UK)
Looking at passenger lists for Jeanette and Edwin....

They arrived in New York in April 1927 planning to stay there for 2-3 months. I suspect this was perhaps a business trip, given Edwin's occupation, although one can't really say for sure.

In July of 1927 they departed from the port of Montreal for England. This suggests that they may have travelled there to perhaps visit Ruth before returning overseas. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be a border crossing record for the couple but not all records necessarily survive or are on line.

Anyway, forod for thought.

PB

Added: apologies, I had read through the thread before posting this but somehow missed that you had mentioned this already.
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: J.J. on Tuesday 08 March 16 17:38 GMT (UK)
I also missed the parents being mentioned...so it's catchy.... ;D In our defence we read through so many threads that do not belong to us so easy for us to skim a bit or lose the plot ...well, that's my excuse for now and am sticking to it, hehe...

Sorry, to China to make you look in the wrong area....Ruth may not be listed as I think with the older directories it was often people working outside of the home and then only head of house at the door.
They started asking my for my info when we moved into this house, but not at our other home.
It may also have been at the discretion or convenience of the information taker, who knows...
But Curley can try for more here http://bibnum2.banq.qc.ca/bna/lovell/ Montreal then serie principal, choose date range then alphabetical.

You need to look under all possible versions of the last name, Bernett, Benett, bennet, etc. as the phonetics can put the result in odd places...she may have had a strong accent as well.
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Jacquie in Canada on Tuesday 08 March 16 20:56 GMT (UK)
Do you have Ruth's actual birth date? It would be very helpful. I see there was a registration for a Ruth Burnett that was registered in Magherafelt in Jul-Aug-Sep 1890. Is that yours?

Jacquie
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Tuesday 08 March 16 21:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Jacquie
Yes that is my Ruth.
Sorry I don't have exact date of birth
Cheers
Curley
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 09 March 16 17:41 GMT (UK)
Ruth may not be listed as I think with the older directories it was often people working outside of the home and then only head of house at the door.


I know, right? No consideration for future genealogists, tsk.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ruth Burnett in Montreal
Post by: Curley on Tuesday 01 April 25 20:07 BST (UK)
Returning after a long rest.All I can add is Ruth,s birthday as 18 August 1890 ,in Ballymultra,Magherafelt,Co Londonderry.