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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: diroka on Monday 22 December 08 23:24 GMT (UK)
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I need help finding a marriage license for Joseph Pearson (abt 1783) with Margaret (abt 1781). Joseph was a blacksmith. I found a Margaret Stephenson who married Joseph Pearson in South Shields at St. Hilda's in May 1810. Would it state the husband's occupation? I found 2 others; one in Gateshead in 1801- Margaret Scott; and one in Jarrow-1803- Margaret Mustard. Any suggestions to determine which is the right one?
Thanks.
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hello :).
have you tried looking on the igi website as it quite often gives occupation in the details.
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Thanks. I have not tried that. Thanks for answering so quickly. I am overwhelmed.
Kathy
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Hi
Have you traced the couple through all the census? Did they survive until 1851? What did they call their children? Often these are family names so looking at the parents of the various Margarets might give you a clue.
I have not often seen occupations on the IGI for anything that early but you can always order the original parish register films to search at your nearest LDS centre as there may be further information on them. The witnesses on each marriage record might help too. I assume you do know that the IGI is not full coverage so it is entirely possible that they married in a parish that is not on it and you may have to look at other places too.
Have a look at the genuki site and follow up some of the links for various Durham marriage indexes on there.
Regards
Andrea
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Have you traced the couple through all the census? Did they survive until 1851? What did they call their children? Often these are family names so looking at the parents of the various Margarets might give you a clue.
I have not often seen occupations on the IGI for anything that early but you can always order the original parish register films to search at your nearest LDS centre as there may be further information on them. The witnesses on each marriage record might help too. I assume you do know that the IGI is not full coverage so it is entirely possible that they married in a parish that is not on it and you may have to look at other places too.
Have a look at the genuki site and follow up some of the links for various Durham marriage indexes on there.
Andrea,
I have traced the couple through the censuses and lose them after 1861 where Margaret is now a widow. They had 4 children, Joseph(named after John's father), Thomas, Amelia and Margaret(have had a difficult time as there are Margarets in every generation, either a daughter or a wife). As for the various Margaret's, I don't know any of the names of their parents. I got their names through various sites (Durham records, Joiner marriages,etc). Thanks for your help.
Kathy
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So where were they born according to the census? That might cut out some of the Margarets.
Andrea
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According to the census records, Margaret was born in Shields. I do not have a birth place for Joseph. In the 1841 census, it states that he was not born in the county and it does not state where. I cannot find him in the 1851 census and his wife is a widow by the 1861 census. The first two of their children were born in South Shields so I thought maybe they were married there. Margaret Stephenson married in South Shields so that is why she is most likely. Margaret Scott married in Gateshead and Margaret Mustard married in Jarrow. I believe they are all close to each other?
Thanks for all of the suggestions. They help tremendously.
Kathy
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I assume you already have Joseph, a shipsmith, and Margaret in 1841, living at Stockport St. in Middlesbrough, and you already have Margaret living with widowed daughter Catherine Walton and assorted grandchildren (two of daughter Catherines children and two of son Johns children) in Middlesbrough in 1861.
Joseph and Margaret are living in the same street in 1851 as in 1841:
1851 census. HO107/2383 p.40.
Stockport St., Middlesbrough,
Joseph Pearson, Head, 67, Shipsmith, b. Northumberland, Newburn
Margaret Pearson, Wife, 70, b. Northumberland, Hartley
John Walton, Visitor, 7, b. Middlesbrough.
I know Margaret is down as being born in Shields, Durham in 1861, but the census records often have mistakes, she obviously lived in Shields a long time as her children were all born there.
From the South Shields St. Hilda parish records :
Margaret Pearson, born Nov 28th 1805, baptised June 25th 1806, 2nd daughter of Joseph Pearson, Blacksmith, native of Newburn, Northumberland, by his wife Margaret Mustard, native of Hartley, Northumberland.
Looks to be one of several children of Joseph Pearson and Margaret Mustard baptised in South Shields. This looks to be your Joseph and Margaret and family.
Alan.
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I don't have Margaret as one of the children. I have John, Joseph, Catharine and William. I found several children by Joseph and Margaret Mustard in the IGI but those that actually list Margaret Mustard as mother are none of these 4 above. Joseph is a blacksmith but is also a blacksmith with the other children. All the above 4 were also christened at St. Hilda's. So do I assume that Margaret Mustard is the mother of all of them?
Thank you for your help.
This has been an interesting quest.
Kathy
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John, Joseph, Catherine and William were all baptised in South Shields after 1812. Records after 1812 only show baptism date, mothers first name, fathers full name and occupation, and where they lived. So only father Josephs full name and occupation - Blacksmith, and mother Margarets first name are recorded.
Baptism records from 1798 to 1812 were far more detailed, showing birth date, number of child (eg 2nd daughter) mothers name and maiden name, fathers name and occupation, where they lived, and mothers and fathers native parish (although this was patchy).
The 1851 census records that Joseph Pearson was from Newburn, and his wife Margaret was from Hartley. Assuming that this is correct, then it tallies in with the baptism records for South Shields, from 1804 to 1812 for the earlier children of Joseph Pearson, recorded as native of Newburn, and Margaret Mustard, recorded as native of Hartley, on at least 2 of the baptisms I checked.
Alan.
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Wow!! thanks for that information. I was not aware of any of that. Is there a CD of the South Shields records available for purchase? There are many of my husband's family that are from that area.
I really appreciate your hard work for me. It adds a great deal to this line.
Kathy
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South Shields parish records, plus lots of other Northumberland and Durham parish records are on line at :
http://search.labs.familysearch.org
Europe
England, Diocese of Durham Bishops Transcripts
No indexes, have to be manually searched, often mixed up by date, but still a massive boon for research.
Alan.
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Thanks for that information.
A couple of days ago I was looking up some records and ran across someplace that had marriage CD's for sale on the Greatham area. My husband asked that I wait until payday to order them and now I cannot find them. Do you have any idea where I could look? I think I must have looked everywhere except where they are actually at... <<smile>>
Kathy
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Not sure about CD's although I'm sure someone on here will be able to point you in the right direction.
Greatham marriages (1564-1837) are indexed on Genuki at the following link :
http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/Transcriptions/DUR/GRE.html
Greatham BMD's (1769-1856) are free to browse and view at the familysearch site in the link attached previously. There may be some gaps, but you may be lucky.
Alan.
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Alan, you are wonderful. I am amazed at the amount of info/knowledge you have. Thank you.
I have added a few major pieces to my tree plus a few more puzzles, as well. This just adds to the excitement. Too bad that Pearson is such a common name. Question: Why would Joseph Pearson say he was from South Shields and then say he was from Newburn, Northumberland? aren't they in totally different areas?
Kathy
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You get a lot of inaccuracies in the census and parish records. Ages can be miles off, childrens places of birth can be miles off. If you've got 10 kids and move every 6 months chasing work, its easy to forget where one or two were born.
Also the census form may be filled in by one person on behalf of many. May not know, or be bothered to find out, all the facts. Sometimes they seem to make them up. Also place of origin on parish records seems to be interpreted a few ways - place you were born, place you were baptised, place you were brought up, place you lived most of your life, parish you were born, village you were born etc. Need multiple corroboration to be certain of anything.
In this case its Margaret who was stated to be from Shields on the 1861 census. The form was probably answered / filled out by her daughter Catherine, who was head of household, who was born in Shields. Margaret was 80 and had obviously lived in Shields for many years. The 1851 census form was probably answered / filled out by Joseph, who was head of household then, may have had better info, or just took more time and care in filling the form out.
Alan.
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That makes a lot of sense. I never bothered to actually sit down and even think about how its done. I understood how names were misspelled. Many times people didn't know how to read or write and so the census taker had to attempt to spell difficult names and often spelled them by how they sounded... I have been very fortunate to have people living for many years in the same village. Thanks for finding Joseph and Margaret in the 1851 census. Another person and I were both looking for them and couldn't no matter how hard we looked. And the fact that John Walton, aged 7, was living with them only corroborated who they were.
Thanks for all of your help.
Kathy
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I haven't replied to this post for some time but am all confused again. I put Margaret Mustard down as wife of Joseph Pearson... all 8 of the children made sense by birth date; Joseph (father of all the children was a blacksmith); wife was Margaret.. first set of 4 girls lists their mother as Margaret Mustard. Nothing for the last 4. I have all that information. I recently received an email from the descendants of one of the first 4 girls who stated that the last 4 children do not belong to their Margaret Mustard. They know who their relatives are and they are not my 4... so do I take their word for it? So now do I try to hunt for another Margaret (so many to choose from) or just drop it and not go any further? Looking for some advice.
Thanks for any advice you can send my way...
Kathy
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Did you ever get the film of the parish register to search at your nearest LDS centre? Listed on familysearch. If Joseph married again then there should be a record of that and a death for the first Margaret. Durhamrecordsonline may have details too.
Has the other researcher given you details of the second marriage? Ask them to tell you why they consider there is a change of wife.
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Joseph Pearson is such a common name and I cannot tell who he may have married. He would had to have married 2 women both named Margaret and I doubt that is the case. I think I used the wrong Margaret with my particular Joseph. I have sent for some death certificates for Margaret Pearson around the age I think she died. I don't know of any other option. The person that emailed me didn't think there was a change of wife, just that I had listed the wrong wife. She was their relative and I had listed their relative's children in with the children of my relative.. (boy... did that even make sense???)
I am just trying to find out the correct Margaret that married Joseph Pearson, blacksmith around 1810. Children that I am pretty sure of: John (3 July 1814); Joseph (28 apr 1816); Catherine (ca 1818); William (ca 1824).
Kathy