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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Deb D on Friday 19 December 08 11:15 GMT (UK)
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If anyone is able to visit Lewes, and has the time, please would they be able to look around the parish records for the birth of a John Delves, around 1818-19? He was listed as 21 when he arrived in Australia on the "James Pattison" in early 1840.
There's been some confusion about what the ship's registers actually said in relation to his birthplace ... we've now ascertained the scribbled writing says "Hallenden", but there isn't a Hallenden in close proximity - so we're thinking whoever filled in the forms may have mis-heard either Hollington, or Dallington.
Unfortunately, we are not sure whether he was baptised C of E (the Delves name is associated with a C of E rector in Catsfield, nearby - unsure whether they were related, at this stage), ... or whether John was Wesleyan Methodist, which is the calling he took up later in life.
Any help would be huuuuuuuuugely appreciated - I'm stuck in a groove with this fellow ... and just don't seem to be able to get out! :-\
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Hi Deb, I read your post only recently and was excited to find someone else who was looking for John Delves born 1819 in Sussex and was also having touble finding him. My dad told me that the family farmed around the Battle/Hasting district so I moved my search to that area. I found a John Delves baptised 28 MAr 1819 in Wartling East Sussex (in the Rape of Hastings). His parents names - John and Mary fit with the names I had. Also his fathers occupation was listed as a 'labourer in husbandry. As John later farmed and ran dairy cows in the Manning district in Taree I think his father occupation fits well.
I also found five siblings whose names are also the names of John Delves's children. What do you think? :)
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Hi Sharon,
Yes, I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same fellow.
The John who was baptised in Wartling is the one my husband's cousin believes is our man ... it's just that I keep stumbling over this "Hallenden" reference. He may, however, have been baptised in Wartling (although I believe there's also one baptised in Worthing around the same time - frustratingly other rellies think this is him, instead) ... and later moved to Hallenden/Hollington/Dallington.
Are you in the UK, or Australia?
Cheers
Deb
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There is reference to Hallenden being a district near Leigh in Kent.
http://www.theweald.org/P5.asp?PId=PK.Leigh
Sean
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Thanks, Swebby, ... I'd seen that one earlier, ... it's yet another possibility ~ but unless I can find some documentation that puts our John or his family in any of these places pre-1839, I don't think we're ever going to know whether he'd moved there (*sigh!*).
For the moment, though ... I'd desperately love to be able to get to Lewes and trawl through the parish registers! Just a tad difficult, finding things from the wrong side of the "rock" :-\
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Hi Deb
I had a look on the SFHG baptism database for you and the Wartling baptism is the only one that comes up between 1815 and 1825. I think they have most parishes on the database now so could well be the right one.
Kerry
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Thank you, Kerry - the news that he's the only one who shows up, ... is what I needed to know. Will have to see if I can get a transcription, as it now makes more sense to me that this is our fellow (am I being paranoid?).
Sharon, nice to hear from you, too. I wonder if you wouldn't mind sending me a PM with the names of the siblings, please? I'd be very grateful :)
Cheers
Deb
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Hi Deb,
The brothers and sisters of John Delves (baptised 28 Mar 1819 at St Mary Magdalene Wartling) are
Elizabeth Baptised 11 Nov 1804
Louisa Bap 21 Dec 1806
Harry Bap 17 Sep 1809
Mary Ann 9 Jul 1815
Jane Bap 28 May 1822
Have you checked out the Non conformist Registers for Worthing yet? I am still a bit hung up on the fact that all of my family records state that he was born in Worthing Sussex. I was looking at an article from 'The Methodist' -'In Memoriam- Mr. John Delves' and I quote ' JohnDelves was born at Worthing in Sussex England January 21st 1819, came to Sydeny in 1838,settling there for one year, being in the employ of Messers. Lamb and Co.
I have been looking at records in the Worthing area for the last 20 years and still haven't found what should be obvious given that I have so many references to his birth date and place
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Hi again, Sharon!
Yes, my husband's cousin sent me a copy of the "Methodist" article, a couple of years back ... and it's bugged me, too, ever since. I don't believe I've found the non-conformist registers yet, ... but very appreciative of the names etc., of his siblings - thank you! Where did you find them? :o
I wonder whether there were 'naming traditions' in this part of the country, as there were in Scotland and Wales? Could we figure out the names of our John's grandparents from the names of his older siblings, do you think?
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Just as a matter of interest the name Delves appears to be predominately in East Sussex rather than West. Looking at the Sussex Marriage Index I could not see a Worthing entry. It would be easy to mishear/mistranscribe Wartling for Worthing which was presumably better known as a larger place.
John Delves married Mary Thorpe 31st March 1802 in Wartling and there is another marriage for John Delves to Jane Brook 12th Oct 1826.
I would think it would be a good idea to search the film of the parish registers at your nearest LDS centre just to check that your possible John did not die young. Also looking at the witnesses on marriages for his siblings. If he signs after 1838 it is obviously not him!
Andrea
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Many thanks, Andrea - the marriage to Mary Thorpe looks promising. As for the second marriage you mentioned, I don't think that's our John, the son of John and Mary, as he was only born in 1819. It's possible it might have been the father remarrying ... although if he did, I suspect it was short-lived as I think he died in 1828 (found in the OPC listings online - agreed, however, that this isn't definite until I find some sort of solid documentation).
:)
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Looking at 1841 there is a Maria Delves widow living with Henry and Elizabeth and their children. They are at Comphurst Farm House, Wartling
ref HO107 1105 13/36 18
Henry and family are still at the same address in Wartling in 1851 though he is called Harry and his age fits with the baptism you have for one of John's siblings.
ref HO107 1638 138
There is a death for a Maria on freebmd in 1842.
There is also a death for a John Delves in 1838 and another in 1842. There appears to be one John Delves widower age 65 in the workhouse in 1841 so the latter death could be his.
I wonder if there are any wills for any of the family? Sometimes looking at the wider picture helps.
Andrea
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Have just had a look at the Documents Online site of TNA, ... nothing blindingly obvious jumps out at me, though. Might take another look at the library's Ancestry link, in a day or so.
Thanks again.
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Over 200 results for "Delves" on the A2A site for East Sussex record office. May be worth ploughing through them.
For example
"On 4 May 1761 Samuel Harrison and his wife Elizabeth mortgaged to John Pain of Hastings servant for £30, who died a bachelor intestate 28 May 1803 leaving sisters Sarah Hide and Martha Lidwell; administration was granted to the former 18 July 1803 and on her death regranted to her son Thomas Hide 25 July 1817
By lease and release of 29 & 30 Sep 1817 and fine, Nicholas Harrison Wimble of Hastings carpenter, his sisters Ann wife of John Luxford of Reigate labourer, Maria wife of Thomas Delves of Wartling husbandman and Elizabeth West of Welford Northants widow (nephew and neices and devisees of Nicholas Harrison deceased) joined with Elizabeth Bevan widow, administratrix with will annexed of the goods of Edward Lintott left on the death of her father William Lintott) and Thomas Hide carpenter (the representatives of the two mortgagees) to convey the property to William Gill of Hastings banker in trust for NHW and to assign the two mortgage terms to William Thorpe and William Scrivens of Hastings gents as trustees"
That may put paid to my theory about Maria and Henry in my earlier post!
Andrea
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Ohhhh rats! :-\
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Hmmm ... been having a think about this ...
When John Jr came out to Australia in 1840 ... the ship's purser or someone in authority had to fill out forms ... and on John's form, they noted that he was the son of "Jno Delves & May (or Mary), his wife", ... but whereas other passengers had notations to the effect that one or another parent was deceased ... John's form seems to indicate both his parents were still alive (which puts paid to the death I found in 1827). It doesn't seem to me, from this, that his father had remarried, either; - although my logic may be warped by now.
Any thoughts on this idea would be appreciated (erm ... the dead or alive, married or remarried thing, - not whether my logic's gone haywire!)
And did you notice that the 1841 Census entry for Henry had him as 25, and Elizabeth his wife as 40? With an 8-year-old son! Was Elizabeth a cradle-snatcher? :o
Yes, it's possible the lad was Elizabeth's son from an earlier marriage - but then, would there have been a different notation for his surname?
**Edit - added: - The John Delves who was in the workhouse in 1841 seems to have had a 70-year-old brother William with him. **