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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Kent Lookup Requests => Kent => England => Kent Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Adi1962 on Friday 19 December 08 08:11 GMT (UK)

Title: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Friday 19 December 08 08:11 GMT (UK)
Joseph Furminger b. abt 1837 Bredhurst.

1841 Census HO107 456 b14 F4 P2 indexed as Fenninger born Kent.

1851 Census HO107 1618 F72 P3 - Ancestry has him indexed as Firmenger born London

Cant find himon 1861

1871 Census RG10 946 F70 P4 indexed as Furmyer born Kent.

There is no evidence to suggest his family were ever in London, so birth place should be Bredhurst, Kent.

Can anyone find him in the 1881 census or beyond, or find a death entry ?

As you can see Ancestry have gone out of their way to make him as difficult to find as possible and i've been going a bit  :D looking for him.

Thanks
Adrian

Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: casalguidi on Friday 19 December 08 08:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Adrian

Are you sure he wasn't (born) baptised Walworth, Surrey 1836 and that his parents perhaps married Newington, Surrey 1832 http://www.familysearch.org ?

1861 - Hanscombe Farmer, Cuxton, Kent

Joseph FERMIGER servant unm 24 engine driver b.Walworth, Surrey

There is also a Mary Ann FERMINGER 7 visitor b.Bredhurst

RG9/474 folio 39 page 18

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: genjen on Friday 19 December 08 08:39 GMT (UK)
I found this death entry


June 1912
Milton, 2a/1067
Joseph Furminger age 75

Looks promising - Milton is in Kent and the age is about right.

Jen
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: casalguidi on Friday 19 December 08 09:35 GMT (UK)
Yes, that does look promising.

Adrian, take a look at Joseph age 64 b.Walworth in Rainham, Kent 1901 RG13/808 folio 108 page 8

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: genjen on Friday 19 December 08 09:55 GMT (UK)
Yes, that does look promising.

Adrian, take a look at Joseph age 64 b.Walworth in Rainham, Kent 1901 RG13/808 folio 108 page 8

Casalguidi :)

I missed that one and can't see him in 1891 either. Must be my eyes!  ???
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: casalguidi on Friday 19 December 08 10:32 GMT (UK)
Just found him in Newington nr. Milton 1891 - again with sister Mary - age 53 and no birthplace given RG12/717 folio 111 page 15

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Friday 19 December 08 13:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Adrian

Are you sure he wasn't (born) baptised Walworth, Surrey 1836 and that his parents perhaps married Newington, Surrey 1832 http://www.familysearch.org ?

1861 - Hanscombe Farmer, Cuxton, Kent

Joseph FERMIGER servant unm 24 engine driver b.Walworth, Surrey

There is also a Mary Ann FERMINGER 7 visitor b.Bredhurst

RG9/474 folio 39 page 18

Casalguidi :)

Hi Cas

That's very interesting on a few levels.

If This Joseph is not the only there could be a link between the Bredhurst family and this one..... also there is a Furminger / Eldridge marriage within this family.

Having hit a brickwall in my Boxley/Aylesford family due to records being destroyed in the civil war, I started to look at other Furminger's in Kent and try and trace them back to my group. This group link to a Boxley member which was exciting to find, but a potential link to a group outside Kent is  ;D great.

Thanks
Adrian
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Friday 19 December 08 13:54 GMT (UK)
Yes, that does look promising.

Adrian, take a look at Joseph age 64 b.Walworth in Rainham, Kent 1901 RG13/808 folio 108 page 8

Casalguidi :)

Farringer !!!!  you can see why I go  :D. I have been researching my family name for years and I still find new varients.

ok this is getting scary now.

This suggest a possible Furminger / Eldridge marriage before the one I know about. Maybe if I can tie the two Eldridge groups together it will look good.

Thanks
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Friday 19 December 08 13:57 GMT (UK)
I found this death entry


June 1912
Milton, 2a/1067
Joseph Furminger age 75

Looks promising - Milton is in Kent and the age is about right.

Jen

Hi Jen

Yep very promising. My grandfather and great grandfather we both living in Milton/Sittingbourne at this time. Be interested to find out where this Joespeh is buried as he is not with all the other Furminger's in Sittingbourne and have not seen him at Milton.

This is well worth a death cert.

Thanks
Adrian
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: grandarog on Friday 19 December 08 14:07 GMT (UK)
Hi Adrian, :)
              Dont get misled, Joseph Firminger bn Walworth is with his family in Walworth Surrey 1851 badly transcribed as Fenniger and Fermor at the same time as your Joseph is at Bredhurst with your lot.
  Also that now makes it looked looks deffo that the death reg in Milton is the Walworth Joseph not yours.
 Looks like you had best start searching for emmigrants as I cant see any sign of Joseph or Sarah any where.
                               Merry Christmas
                                                     Rog :D ;D
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: grandarog on Friday 19 December 08 14:16 GMT (UK)
Sorry Adrian ,  :o:'( :-[
                Dont know where the source ref for Walworth Furmingers went in the ether it was in the message when I previewed.
       Try again here
                  1851 census HO107  1567  841  19
                                                         Cheers Rog :) :)
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: grandarog on Friday 19 December 08 14:30 GMT (UK)
It looks like the link between the families in 1851 is Charcoal, one lot manufacturing at Bredhurst and the other selling it at Walworth.
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: casalguidi on Friday 19 December 08 14:50 GMT (UK)
Quote
Also that now makes it looked looks deffo that the death reg in Milton is the Walworth Joseph not yours.

Rog, there appear to have been two Josephs born Walworth about that time - the one in Kent and who probably died Milton registration district (Adrian's one) and the other one (son of Ann born Eastbourne), who appears later in the Camberwell area.

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: grandarog on Friday 19 December 08 17:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Casalguidi , :)
           I did note on Fam Search that there was also a Joseph with parents Francis and Sarah (as the Bredhurst Family) at Walworth .On a batch number entry. ,  Although Adrians family branch from Bredhurst are obviously(tongue in cheek) related to the other family at  Walworth it seems strange they should have had the children christened there and not in their own village. Thats why I advised Adrian not to get misled as the Furminger tree is very Knarled and Tangled .
          I still have my doubts which is which. :-\
                                                  Merry Christmas Rog
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Friday 19 December 08 19:13 GMT (UK)
Just found him in Newington nr. Milton 1891 - again with sister Mary - age 53 and no birthplace given RG12/717 folio 111 page 15

Casalguidi :)

This confirms some link. Clare Furminger (niece of Joseph) married in 1903 the William Eldridge aged 10.
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Friday 19 December 08 19:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Rog

Thanks for the info. The Charcoal link is interesting looks like a lot of deep research might find an interesting story.

From the great feedback and info I can spend some time looking at all the pieces of this complex picture and see what transpires. Whilst these sort of puzze;s can be frustrating its also quite nice to have the odd one as they yend to lead you in to new directions and occassional rare finds.
My goal has always to prove my theroy that there is a link between the Kent and Sussex Furmingers, this could be a step towards that you never know.

Thanks for everyone that has helped

Have a happy Xmas
Adrian
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Monday 22 December 08 12:33 GMT (UK)
Just think out load here as this is a little confusing.

on 1861 Census RG9 474 F39 P18 William Eldridge b. 1854 Wouldham is with his parents and siblings in Kent.

On 1891 Census he is with Joseph Furminger, his wife Mary Ann b. 1854 Bredhurst (sister of Joseph) and a few children. On of his sons is William b1881 who later married Clara Furminger  His birth is shown as 1856 Walworth.

William married Mary Ann in Bredhurst JulyQ 1877 2a 991

The Joseph Firminger b. Newington, Surrey Sept 1839 4 322 must be the one linked to the Eastbourne family.

Is the mix up of birth places for William, something that has happened with Joseph.

If Joseph and Mary Ann are brother and sister and the children of Francis, then he was possible in his late 50's when she was born.

I think I need a birth cert for Mary Ann to see who her parents were.

Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: casalguidi on Monday 22 December 08 16:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Adi

The baptism of Mary Ann FURMINGER 1853 Bredhurst is on the IGI http://www.familysearch.org - daughter of Francis and Sarah.

Looking at the 1891 census for Newington, Kent RG12/717 folio 111 page 15:

Joseph FURMINGER head unm 53 (no birthplace given)
William ELDRIDGE bro in law mar 35 b.Walworth
Mary A sister b.Wouldham

I would, with certainty, say that the enumerator has made a mistake ie. he has accidentally missed Joseph's place of bith and entered it agains William then put William's place of birth against Mary etc. - this would all then make perfect sense.

Quote
Is the mix up of birth places for William, something that has happened with Joseph.

I'm not quite sure what you mean here as I don't see anything confusing about *your* Joseph's place of birth except that it has been listed as Bredhurst on one census rather than, as it should be, Walworth.

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Tuesday 23 December 08 08:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Cas

Thanks. Also found her on CityArk in the Bredhurst PR's.

With regard to Joesph I was just speculating that as they had mixed up Williams places of birth, that this may also have happened for Joeseph.

Joseph is definately not in the Bredhurst PR's, so will now try and get the Walworh PR's checked.

Thanks for your help on this

Adrian
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: casalguidi on Tuesday 23 December 08 08:23 GMT (UK)
Yeah, I definitely think he was born in Walworth as that is the place of birth (london) listed when he was living at home with his parents 1851 so probably the baptism listed on the IGI 1836.

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: help finding....
Post by: Adi1962 on Tuesday 23 December 08 08:32 GMT (UK)
I have also found Francis and Sarah's marriage at St Mary Newington on the IGI

So for some reason they must have been living there until just after the birth of Joseph.

Adrian