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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Henry7 on Thursday 18 December 08 20:55 GMT (UK)

Title: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Henry7 on Thursday 18 December 08 20:55 GMT (UK)
My great-great-grandfather, Walter Robert Birmingham, came from Ireland, or so he said.  He never disclosed exactly where, sometimes saying Dublin, sometimes Donegal, sometimes Cork. He was born about 1851 or 1852.

He had a brother, Thomas Birmingham, who "died at sea". Their parents were said to be Walter Birmingham, a baker, and Hannah (or possibly Honorah).

Walter ran away from home as a boy and joined the British Navy.  His parents are said to have "bought him out" but he ran away again and joined the British Army, serving in India for many years. He died in Edinburgh in 1899.

It seems clear that he tried to keep his origins quiet - but I have no idea why.

I'd be very grateful for any information, ideas, leads or suggestions.   
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: shanew147 on Thursday 18 December 08 23:17 GMT (UK)
a few Birmingham/Bermingham listings :

1846 Slaters directory

Birmingham Walter, printer, 38 Queen st, Dublin

Birmingham Ellen, 7 Hamilton row, Dublin (CONFECTIONERS &  PASTRYCOOKS.)

Birmingham Walter, 38 Queen st, Dublin  (PLUMBERS & WATER CLOSET MAKERS.)

Bermingham Walter, fruiterer, Main st, Wexford town

1870 Slaters directory.

Birmingham Alfred, baker, High st , Ballinrobe, Co. Mayo



Shane
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Henry7 on Thursday 18 December 08 23:39 GMT (UK)
Many thanks, Shane.

This is all new info to me. When I was in Cork a few years back I came upon some Berminghams by accident, and wondered if my ancestor was from there, but I've been quite unable to make any link.

Your interesting refs make me wonder if I'll be able to crack our old family mystery - at last.

Harry.

   
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Vabre on Friday 19 December 08 00:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Henry,

The Griffith's Valuation shows there were just three Walter Birmingham's in Irealnd at that time. They were in the following Counties.....
County Limerick, Civil Parish of Kilflyn, Townland of Coolfree.
County Westmeath, Civil Parish of Rathgrave, Townland of Raheen Moreand
County Wexford, Civil Parish of St. Michael's, Townland of Townparks.
Hope this helps,

John....Sydney 
 
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Henry7 on Friday 19 December 08 00:59 GMT (UK)
John -

I'm amazed. I really thought my query was pretty hopeless, but suddenly it looks as if a big tour of Ireland is on the cards.

I used to wonder if my ancestor, in seeking to cover his tracks, had simply renamed himself 'Birmingham', but with these several Walter Bs, it looks as if it could well have been his real name.

Many thanks for your efforts!

Harry.
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Vabre on Friday 19 December 08 03:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Harrry,

Add these to your list for the following are Walter BERMINGHAM'S.......

County Cork, Civil Parish of Ballydeloughy, Townland of Balldangan.
County Cork, Civil Parish of Ballydeloughy, Townland of Ballydeloughy.
County Cork, Civil Parish of Marshalstown, Townland of Curraghgorm.
County Dublin, Civil Parish of Dublin City, Townland of Usher's Key, Ward, Thomas Street.
County Dublin, Civil Parish of St.Catherines, Townland Thomas Street.
County Offaly / Kings, Civil Parish of Barri, Townland of Townparks, T/ Birr, The Green.
County Wexford, Civil Parish of St. Selskars, Town of Wexford.

It looks to me that the Dublin entries could be interesting for you.  :)

John...Sydney

Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Henry7 on Friday 19 December 08 13:21 GMT (UK)
John and Shane -

Overwhelmed - again.

A couple of days ago this man's origin was just a family legend, perhaps a bit of romantic fiction.  Suddenly it seems it's probably true, and researchable - with at least the possibility of discovering more. I asked for 'leads' - but I'd no idea I'd be given all these.

Many thanks!

Harry 
(in Edinburgh, Scotland).

Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Leofric on Friday 19 December 08 15:24 GMT (UK)
Hello Harry,

There are hundreds of Birminghams on the IGI for Ireland, most of which are submitted by LDS people rather than extracts of official records.

Have you found Walter junior in the 1891 census? And then tried working backwards to trawl for clues?His marriage cert will also verify his father's name and occupation.

You could also try a posting on the Armed Forces forum on this site on how to obtain his army papers - these will be useful as they usually show the parish of birth.

regards Leofric
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Henry7 on Friday 19 December 08 17:33 GMT (UK)
Hello Leofric -

I know exactly where he was living in 1891, his family are all listed in the census - but he isn't.

Of course, he might have been away on a visit somewhere, but from all I've heard (tales from my grandma) he kept his affairs very private, and gave even friendly enquirers the brush-off, so maybe he just avoided the census clerk and told his wife not to mention him. She gave herself as the head of the family. He was an awkward customer, from all accounts.     

I'll have a try on the Armed Forces forum as you suggest - I have (somewhere) two of his Army numbers: I think he deserted, so there's probably a lot of paperwork somewhere.  It sounds promising!

Many thanks!
Harry.
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Genie McK on Wednesday 30 April 14 16:47 BST (UK)
Dear Henry7,
I've been updating my research on the Birminghams today and I couldn't believe my luck when I came across your posts on this site.
My husband shares the same Birminghams as you in his family tree.  We have a Walter Birmingham born about 1851 in Ireland, who was married to Robina Walker.  Their son Richard Birmingham is my husbands great grandfather.
Id be happy to share what information we have.
I'd love to hear whether you managed to find out more about Walter and Hannah.

Regards
Genie
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Henry7 on Wednesday 30 April 14 19:42 BST (UK)
Dear Genie -

Delighted to hear from you!  And welcome to Rootschat, which I've found to be a very useful and interesting website.  We seem to be second-cousins x-times removed (or some such thing).

Your husband's great-grandfather, Richard Birmingham, was an older brother of my grandmother, Catherine.  As a boy I used to hear my father talk about his much-liked "Uncle Dick", but I only met him once, at my grandparents' golden wedding celebration in January 1949.  I think he died shortly afterwards.

Sadly I got nowhere trying to trace the origins of his father Walter Robert, who remains a mystery to me.  But I have a few bits & pieces about him which may be new to you and I'll gladly pass on.  The best way to do this will be (initially) by the Rootschat PM system, which you'll be able to use after you post a few (three?) messages on these boards.  (We can exchange email addresses that way, rather than publicly on here - to avoid spam!)

Very best wishes -

Harry (a.k.a. "Henry7")   
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Genie McK on Thursday 01 May 14 17:55 BST (UK)
Hello again, we are so glad to hear back from you.
Richard Birmingham died in May 1949 of stomach cancer, just after Catherine and George's golden wedding celebrations.  Richard had been a witness at their wedding on 2nd Jan 1899.
I don't have a date of marriage for Walter and Robina. I thought Walter's full name was Walter Henry Birmingham - I got this from a transcription of their daughter's (Robina Ellen Birmingham born 3 April 1885 baptised 13 April 1885) birth & baptism record from The British India Office Ecclesiastical Returns.
I have information of the following children for Walter and Robina:-
Walter Robert Birmingham born  1874 India,
Richard Birmingham born 1876 Yorkshire,
Catherine H Birmingham born 1878 India,
Bridget Isabella Birmingham born 1879 India,
John T Birmingham born 1882 India,
Jane Birmingham born 1883 India,
Robina Ellen Birmingham born 1885 India

We have a few bits and pieces on the Birminghams, including at least on photograph of "Uncle Dick" we'd be happy to share.   We'd love to solve a few mysteries around the Birminghams
and look forward to corresponding.

Yours sincerely
Genie
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Henry7 on Thursday 01 May 14 20:58 BST (UK)
Thank you Genie, this is fascinating stuff!

There's a mistype in my first Rootschat posting on this thread, back in 2008 - I said that Walter was my great-great-grandfather but (of course!) he was my great-grandfather.

In 1950 I quizzed my grandma about her family, which I'm very glad I did, for she died in 1955.  Her version of her brothers & sisters was slightly different from your list, but I suppose that's to be expected in this family-tree research.  I have one photo of her father, Walter (head & shoulders, c1880 in uniform) and two of Richard - one pre-WW1 sitting in a photographer's studio "motor car" with his brother Jack and their wives, and one in a group photo at the golden wedding dinner in January 1949.  If you haven't already got them I'll scan and send them after we get the PM system set up and can use our email addresses. 

Also I have several photos of Jack (1882-1917), Walter (1874-1950) and Robina Ellen (1885-1904). 

I hadn't heard Walter's middle name given as Henry before; I can only suppose he might have had two middle names.

But there's such a lot to discuss, and I'm sure we'll sort out some of the problems, eventually!

All the best -

Harry.         
Title: Re: Birmingham, or maybe Bermingham
Post by: Genie McK on Saturday 03 May 14 08:32 BST (UK)
Hi Henry, just been looking through our photograph collection.  We have a few of Richard (Dick) Birmingham and his wife Margaret Christie.  There are a few people in some of the photos we haven't been able to identify - so here is hoping that you can help  when we get to sharing the photos.  We'd also love to know if you have any information about Richard and Margaret's daughter Jeanie Weir Birmingham.  Looking forward to getting the PM set up.

Genie