RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: westmorland on Tuesday 16 December 08 16:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi there,
regarding the national roll of honour, , if i was looking for a soldier who was born in Birkenhead liverpool, would i look for him in the liverpool roll, or the roll where he was living while he was serving, manchester, salford etc?
many thanks
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Hi westmorland !
There isn't one for Liverpool I'm afraid ! .... but there is for Manchester :)
What name are you looking for ?
Annie :)
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hi Annie,
Thomas Dawson,
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Theres a T Dawson in the Machine Gun Corps - who came home ! ..... what else do you know about him ? maybe we could look somewhere else ! :)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/053g/
Annie :)
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As Annie said
he was a private in the Manchester Gun Corp and was gassed at the Somme in May 1918,
following which he was invalided back home to barracks where he stayed until he was demobbed. If this is the same T Dawson you were looking for he lived at 36 Stott St
Hulme, Manchester. He was awarded the Victory & General Service medals
have a good day
failsafe
:o
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hi to you both. many thanks for that info. just wondered if he didn't serve abroad would his name not be in the roll?
he was born 1878, so he would have been about 36-7 years old, would that have been to old for the mgc?, he was born in liverpool but think he was living in manchester from about 1920 till he died in 1940.
he was in the 2nd cheshire regiment as a private in 1902, and i have a photo(which i have put on rootschat before to clean the picture up) of him in uniform and the collar badges are of the north staffordshire reg, and the uniform is ww1 and after 1908.
have checked the nat arc medal index for cheshire and north staff reg for thomas dawson. got 6 cheshire possibles and 1 north staffs and they all survived the war, not sure what i can really do next though.
cheers to you both
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hi, just been looking at his marriage certificate and it says that his wife at the time(1902) was living in hulme, so i suppose at some point he could have moved to hulme?
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It is more than probable that he may be the person you are looking for
particularly with the address on the marr. cert. If it is the same one he served abroad
France, Ypres, Polygonoweld, Arras and as I said the Somme.
If your not sure a check in the local newspaper of the day may prove useful.
But I think in all probability this is your man.
failsafe
;D :( :o
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cheers for that, what i need to do now is find out who was living at that address at that time,
keeping my fingers crossed.
will get back to you on this one
many thanks
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if i was looking for a soldier who was born in Birkenhead liverpool, would i look for him in the liverpool roll,
Hi
Birkenhead and Liverpool are two separate places, whilst they both come under Merseyside today Liverpool was in the county of Lancashire whilst Birkenhead, on the other side of the River Mersey, was a town in the county of Cheshire. It might be worth contacting the Cheshire Military Museum at Chester Castle (link below) as there might be some info of assistance in their archives. Thats probably were the Cheshire Regiment was based.
http://www.chester.ac.uk/militarymuseum/information.html
Andy
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hi Andy, already contacted the cheshire museum, paid my £15 for the research, but they don't think they can do much without a service number, so it looks like i will be getting my £15 back.
it now looks more than likely he left the cheshire regiment and joined the north staffordshire reg as the photo i have of him in uniform (according to the staffordshire reg museum) he is wearing there badge and the uniform is after 1908.
the thing is what would the nat roll of honour for birkenhead, cheshire, have come under in 1919-20, manchester, oldham etc,
cheers Andy
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Hi again
If you need to check who was living at the Manchester address for a particular year
you could always check Kelly's Street Directory and the Electoral Rolls might provide some clues.
Have you checked with TNA because he would have received a pension.
Just trying to narrow the possabilities down
Have you got a photo of him in uniform that you can post (in jpeg format)?
failsafe
::)
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The photo would be very useful to see... :D
Don't ever take the National Roll as a piece of "historical fact". It is not...It has it's uses and I have copies in my collection...
It was a subscription book in which the individual notices were posted by the family or the individual. Most copies have shed loads of inaccuracies, and are not officially sanctioned, thus they do not fully reflect what is on the record.
In fact although it was envisaged as a full and proper account of those who served, the company went bankrupt after only 13 areas were done.
And of course you only got in if you paid up...
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hi there,
kelly's directory is new to me but a really good site, not had the chance to fully navigate around it yet, but will give it a try for sure.
have phoned the manchester central library today and they said i would have to email them the details and they would check out the electoral roll, so looking forward to seeing what that turns up.. you mentioned the TNA?, not sure what that is, but like you say he more than likely received a pension, which has also made me think, because my gt grandfather was killed in 1940 while serving as a member of the crew as a fireman on the merchant ship the SITALA, when it was sunk by a Uboat, he was the only one who did not survive, his body was never found.
what i'm getting at is, if he did get a pension, would he have been allowed to earn money as a crew member for the merchant navy? or even though you were given a pension were you still allowed to go out and work?
i know exactly what you mean scrimnet with regards to the nat roll, although i did find my great uncle on there a couple of years back but it gave the wrong regiment and wrong year of his death, and said he fought in certain battles that he never did.
at the moment for me it's a matter of elimination, it's more than likely the nat roll soldier is not my gt grandfather,
the only reason i want to check this man out is because he was living in hulme, which my grandfather was about the same time, but as you say, not every soldier had ther name on the nat roll.
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Hi
I googled and found a list of locations covered by The National Roll of Great Britain and the north of England is very sparce, apart from Manchester, Salford and Leeds that are on Ancestry there is only Bradford. Nothing anywhere near Liverpool or Birkenhead.
Am I correct in thinking that you found reference to the 2nd Cheshire Regiment from his 1902 marriage certificate? If so, he may have served with the 2nd Cheshire when they were sent to South Africa during the Boer War. If so, there may be a list of soldiers who went and with a bit of luck, only one T Dawson. That could give you a service number.
TNA is The National Archives (link below)
http://www2.nationalarchives.gov.uk/default.htm
Andy
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cheers for that, i have been told by family members that he did serve in the boer war, but did not consider it.
but now i will try and find out from the cheshire reg museum if they can help.
many thanks for that Andy, will keep you up dated.
much appreciated
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The 'dog collar' badge' doesn't appear to be either the Machine Gun Corp (or the Cheshire Reg.)
Will check on this further.
If he lived in Liverpool at the time of WW1 he may have joined the Kings own Liverpool Reg
but again i will check on this.
I know it's all confusing, but will try my best to help you
Have a Merry Xmas
failsafe
:o
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during WW1 neither the other ranks of the Cheshire Regiment nor the MGC wore collar dogs
that photo has obviously been 'shopped' to improve it, we really could do with seeing the original in a high resolution scan to see if we can id those badges
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recieved email from manchester library regarding electoral roll for the MGC soldiers address and it's not the Thomas Dawson that i was looking for .
along with some on rootschat, 14-18 war foum, and staffordshire regiment museum(emailed them the photo of him)
they all come to the same conclusion that the badge is North Staffordshire. but as for the uniform, the guy at the museum thinks it's ww1 after 1908. others have suggested boer war possibly.
as Andycand said, if his marriage cert says 2nd cheshire reg 1902 then it's possible he may have been in the boer war with the cheshire reg who had not long returned, so i need to find out if ther is a list of men who served with the 2nd cheshire's during the boer war and it may lead to the elusive service number.
as for the best way of going about this, well that i need to think about, any suggestions would be greatly received.
cheers