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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 08:42 GMT (UK)

Title: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 08:42 GMT (UK)
Hi:  Does anyone have any knowledge of the PROV?  I've found a probate record dated 1999 and I'd really like to have a look at it.  Only snag is that I live in the UK!!  If I register as a public user and order the item, would I be able to download the papers?  Or is ordering just for local viewing in the archives?  I haven't tried to do it, as I don'twant to waste people's time by doing it, and then finding that I would have to be in Melbourne to view!!

I've tried to get extra information on this guy from the undertakers, but of course they are not allowed to give anything to me.

And what about recordings of marriages and births!  As far as I can see from the website these are only available up to the early 1940s.  How could I search for later entries?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

BumbleB  :)
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 08:55 GMT (UK)
Only Wills and Probate to 1925 have been digitised on PROV. 

The probate record will only be available for viewing at PROV.

Births registrations finish at 1907 online, however a number of Aussie chatters have a CD of the indexes which extend to 1920.

Marriages registrations are only extend to 1942 for the State of Victoria. 

Strict privacy laws in Australia.

Would you like to detail the names as often their burial records can be found and War service records etc. Electoral roll records are online for various years between 1900 and 1936 for Victoria.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 09:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks a lot for that Cando.  It was as I expected.  I've got his war record details and I know where he was cremated, so just really wanted to find out whether he was married or not and if so whether he produced any children.

WW2 record shows his mother as next of kin.

The name was John Edward Archbell and he lived in Northcote.  He died 27 February 1999 and was cremated at Fawkner Memorial Park.

BumbleB   :(

Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 09:20 GMT (UK)
A couple of birth regs and a marriage

Births

ARCHBELL Allen Walter
Father: Walter William  Mother Beatrice Ripley BROWN
Birth Place PT MELB   1914   Reg#6761

ARCHBELL  John Edward
Father:  None recorded Mother Beatrice Ripley BROWN
At Castlemaine   1917  Reg#10601

Marriage
 
ARCHBELL  Beatrice Ripley
HENNESSY Edward Neil
1918   Reg#6883

There is no marriage for John Edward to 1942.

Will keep searching.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 09:30 GMT (UK)
There is only one  ARCHBELL in the Australian White Pages..in Queensland
http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/initResSearch.do

It  may be worth contacting them.

I have electoral info for his parents and his brother if you would like it.

There is a lovely kind 'chatter who visits PROV but I understand it wouldn't be until next year. 

Cheers
Cando


Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 09:33 GMT (UK)
Looks as though his mother married again

Death

CROFT Beatrice Ripley
Father BROWN Thomas  Mother Mary  UNKNOWN
Death Place Fitzroy   77 years   1961  Reg#23767

Cheers
Cando

Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 09:44 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much Cando.  I did know about Allen Walter, and I've got details of his marriage, he died in WW2 when the Sydney was lost.  Father Walter William died in WW1, having emigrated to Australia, and then returned a couple of years later to die in Belgium.  Beatrice Ripley Brown was Walter Williams wife, she then married someone called Hennessy, who obviously disappeared somewhere into the ether and she married Croft.  Glad to have the death for Beatrice though, thanks.  I'll certainly have a go at the Archbell in Queensland, and would love to have the electoral roll info when you've got a moment.

Once again, many thanks for your help.

BumbleB   :)
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 10:12 GMT (UK)
Australian Electoral Roll 1900-1936

1914
ARCHBELL Beatrice Ripley  196 Dow Street, Port Melbourne  Home Duties
ARCHBELL Walter William, 196 Dow Street, Port Melbourne  Wood machinist

1924
HENNESSY Beatrice Ripley  227 Esplanade, Port Melbourne  Weaver
and at the same address
HENNESSY Mary  227 Esplanade, Port Melbourne  Home duties

1936
ARCHBELL Allen Walter, 37 Whalley Street, Northcote  Mechanic.
CROFT Beatrice Ripley, 37 Whalley Street, Northcote  Weaver
CROFT John Henry, 37 Whalley Street, Northcote.  Seaman

There are two other entries for a Beatrice Ripley...occupation Weaver. May only be a coicindence :-\

1919
WILSON Beatrice Ripley  Bull Street, Castlemaine Home duties
WILSON Edward Neil   Bull Street, Castlemaine   Weaver

and again in 1924 but address is Duke Street, Castlemaine and occupation weaver.  There is no 1936 enrolment for a Beatrice Ripley WILSON and no death in the indexes.  I have just realised that WILSON's given names are the same as HENNESSY's given names...are they the same person??  Beatrice returns to Melbourne and uses the HENNESSY name....or have I a vivid imagination.  A bit of a puzzle and then I found this....

Death

HENNESSY Edward Neil
Father  Hennessy Michael  Mother Thresea [?]  BARRETT
At Yarrawonga   35 years   1928   Reg#13024

Finally  Beatrice Ripley CROFT is buried at Fawkner along with her husband and a young son.
http://www.fcmp.com.au/

Cheers
Cando





Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 10:30 GMT (UK)
Have you Walter William's WW1 Service record...it has been digitised and is on
http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch.aspx

I notice that his wife's address is Bull Street, Castlemaine...where Beatrice Ripley WILSON/HENNESSY enrolled in the 1919 and 1924 on the electoral rolls.

Notice of Beatrice's remarriage to HENNESSY on the service record has address Duke Street, Castlemaine so WILSON and HENNESSY are one and the same.  Also has the Esplanade address as well.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 10:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Cando:  You are a star, aren't you?  Yes, I've got Walter William's record from the website, and Allen Walter's.  John Edward's isn't available yet, but I found his entry on the www.ww2roll.gov.au site, as well as one for Allen Walter, and I know that Allen Walter is commemorated in Plymouth, and Walter William on the Menin Gate in Ieper, in Belgium.

Our Beatrice certainly did the rounds, didn't she?  Surely there couldn't be two people with the name Beatrice Ripley!  I think it must be the same person. 

I'll get on the Fawkham site - interesting about another child!  She had twins in 1909 before the family left Leeds, one of which died.  And it's strange that the other child got married in Leeds in 1931 - did she go to Australia and come back again, or did she stay in the UK?  Oh, more and more questions!!  But I suppose it would be very boring if we got answers to all our questions at the first attempt, and I also thought it would be easy to research the Archbell side of my family!

BumbleB   :)
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 10:59 GMT (UK)
Why don't you go ahead and order it on the NAA website... I did for an aunt who had died and it didn't say it was open etc.  It turned up a fortnight later.

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch.aspx
Search now as guest user and just search using ARCHBELL...it will bring up the three records...click on display.

Click on the Control symbol  VX91780  in the middle of the his record and it will take you to a new page, click request copy and proceed to purchase either to have it digitised on the website or a photocopy sent to you.

When you order you just tick the deceased box.

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 11:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks again. 

I've looked at the Fawkham site and it's interesting!!  If the young Croft child was 8 in 1933 then he was born in 1924 (burial was January 1933) but Beatrice was still married to Hennessy in 1924!!  So who's child is he?  I'm guessing that he is really a Hennessy but changed his name when his mother re-married.

bumbleB   :)
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 11:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks again. 

I've looked at the Fawkham site and it's interesting!!  If the young Croft child was 8 in 1933 then he was born in 1924 (burial was January 1933) but Beatrice was still married to Hennessy in 1924!!  So who's child is he?  I'm guessing that he is really a Hennessy but changed his name when his mother re-married.

bumbleB   :)

And who is John Edward's father...Walter William enlisted in 1915 and John was born in 1917 with no father noted.  Probably HENNESSY's wouldn't you say?

I do love the comment in Walter's service record...something along the lines of....I'm not going in the clink....or something similar :)  ? Spirited :)

Livens the research a little ;)

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 11:54 GMT (UK)
Ooh!  Hadn't noticed that - John Edward born 6 June 1917, Walter William embarked 26 November 1915!!!  I got that bit of info from www.aif.adfa.edu.au.  How did you know that there was no father noted?  Does that mean his birth is recorded somewhere?  Not that I mean to get a copy of it, as I've got the date.

Yes, I liked that bit in WW's record - but then again he was a Yorkshireman!!

Ah, well, at least I haven't found any murderers yet, so whatever was in the past is gone and there's nothing we can do about it!

BumbleB   ::)
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 11:57 GMT (UK)
Sorry, Cando, I've gone back through and you've given me the birth entries already.  Too much information, too quickly!!  Not that I'm complaining. 

BumbleB   :-[
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 12:16 GMT (UK)
If you wish to purchase the birth cert...you can purchase for AUD$17.50 and immediately download from

http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home

Info on birth certs

*Date and place of birth;
*name of child and whether present or not;
*name of parents (including mother's maiden name); *occupation of parents;
*ages and birthplace of parents;
*date and place of marriage of parents;
*previous children of their marriage noting living or deceased;
*signature, description and address of the person who gave the information; names of witnesses;
*date and place of registration.

Agree about the past bit ;)  I do have a bit of a chuckle when people say...oh that wouldn't have happened in my family ..or you have the wrong person....or some such ;D ;D  I often wish I could find some info to spice up my family history....and give a few a bit of a jolt. ::) ::)

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 13:11 GMT (UK)
Am I looking in the wrong place - Historical Records - birth certificates only up to 1907!!

I've got one of two spicy bits in my trees - I've got an excommunication for having illegitimate children (my 4 x ggrandmother), at least two who married their deceased wife's sister (illegal in the UK until well after it all happened) and one of those was a Wesleyan Missionary in South Africa although to be fair I think had left the church by then!  Plus lots of illegitimate children, but so what!!   ::)

BumbleB
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Monday 15 December 08 17:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Cando:  I've had a look through my paperwork and doing a bit more sleuthing, and it's quite amazing:

John Edward was still living at 37 Whalley Street, Northcote in 1995, and probably died there as well.  My cousin here received a book in 1995 as a hard-sell scheme with a list of Archbells all over the world - John Edward is in there.

Beatrice Ripley Brown was a weaver by trade when she married Walter William Archbell in 1908.  And Walter William was a wood sawyer.

She was born in Hexham registration district in December quarter 1885.

John Thomas Brown married Elizabeth Ripley in Hexham district in December quarter 1880 (that's the only discrepancy - Elizabeth and not Mary)

As you very kindly provided me with a marriage entry for Beatrice and Edward Neil Hennessy, you couldn't do the same for Beatrice Ripley Hennessy and John Henry Croft, could you?

Thanks

BumbleB   :)
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Monday 15 December 08 22:06 GMT (UK)
Here you are :)

CROFT John Henry
HENNESSY Beatrice Ripley
1928  Reg# 11798

and his death reg to complete your records...his parent's names.

CROFT
John Henry
Father John Henry  Mother Alice Jane  MARSH
Death Place  Northcote   76 years   1963  Reg#1670

and their son John..

CROFT Robert John
Father  CROFT John Henry  Mother Beatrice  HENNESSY
Death Place CARLTON   8 years  1933  Reg#611

Thank you for giving some of their background information....certainly makes it more interesting  ;)

Am I looking in the wrong place - Historical Records - birth certificates only up to 1907!!

Yes that is correct.  Strict privacy laws in Australia...100 year restriction on births in Victoria...each State has slightly different restrictions.  Many of the Aussie chatters have CD's of the indexes and one CD has births to 1920....produced and sold well before the 100 year restriction was introduced.

Cheers
Cando






Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: BumbleB on Tuesday 16 December 08 08:56 GMT (UK)
Thank you once again, Cando.  I'll now add that information.  Previously I hadn't done to much on this branch, just added an extra box onto Walter William's parents page.  Now they have a page to themselves, and lots of info.  It was while I was transferring everything that I realised the continuity.  I didn't want to bore you with too many details, after all family history is only really of interest to the person researching it, although of course, some information does ensure that you've got the right one.

I'd be grateful also for the chatter's details who may possibly go to PROV for me.  I've got another Archbell there - can't remember the details off-hand, which I wouldn't mind knowing about.  An earlier family went out in the 1855 and I did download the death certificates and a marriage certificate for him but there was something else I would have liked, I've made a note somewhere!!  Just have to find it!  Old age!  ::) ::)

BumbleB  :)

Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: cando on Tuesday 16 December 08 09:05 GMT (UK)
There is nothing for ARCHBELL to 1925 on
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=54

Will pm you any ARCHBELL info from the indexes to save transcribing them here...copyright infringement to copy and paste.

May I suggest you in the New Year you post a new thread topic ... A Lookup at PROV please.  The chatter will more than likely take it from there.

I actually enjoy hearing about other family histories...must be an odd soul I think :-\

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: PROV Wills and Probate
Post by: flinders on Tuesday 22 July 14 09:07 BST (UK)
i am the Curator of HMASs Cerberus Museum and would you please make contact as Beatrice Ripley Brown (Archbell, Hennessy...) had a son who was killed aboard HMAS Sydney II - trying to find a family member to do a DNA test - Regards Toni  -