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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: joyce341 on Sunday 14 December 08 19:23 GMT (UK)
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I was kindly given help to trace my uncle,James Hickman,birth name Isaac James Hickman.
he was born 1873 in England,went to USA in 1895,married Mary Ann Whitney in Providence Rhode Island USA in 1905,in 1910 and 1920 census there,sent for the marriage certificate with money and proof of relationship was told it was not possible to obtain it,and they did not start certificates untill 1908,what I am trying to do is find a entry for uncle James with parents names,(Phoebe and William Parkes) also his death in about 1930 and wifes death date,so far searched in vain,can anyone help please.
Joyce
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Joyce, I'll look into for you.
Lexi :)
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Back again
Joyce, Santa Claus came early this year ;)
Isaac James Hickman m. Mary Ann Whitney on 26 November 1902 in Providence, Rhode Island.
The archives has a copy on file. PM me your e-mail address
Lexi :)
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Hi Joyce,
I received your pm and will scan the marriage record over, as soon as time will allow. (wrapping Christmas presents tonight :) )
The marriage record for Isaac James Hickman and Mary Anna Whitney is in pristine condition and not darken by time like lots of records I find.
Isaac James Hickman m. Mary Anna Whitney on 26 Nov 1902 in Providence, Rhode Island. His occupation is listed as a Coachman. He was 32 and she is 33. Isaac was born in England and his parents are listed as William & Anna.
Mary was born in Ireland and her parents are Patrick & Judith. Its their 1st marriage.
Rhode Island records for birth & marriage are open to the public up until 1908. I checked for any children born to this marriage up until 1908 and none were listed. The death records are up until 1956 and neither Isaac James or Mary were listed. In fact, there were very few listings for "Hickman" in any of the vital records. Lots of Higgins.....
Hope this info helps you futher along with your quest.....
Lexi :)
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Hi Lexi,
that is really good of you,I know this is him,followed him through from,footman to Deacon of Hereford,to emigration in 1895 to records 1920,etc,also the fact that he was allways called James but his marriage lists him as Isaac James as per birth registration,he took some finding,his father was William as marriage says but mother was Phoebe Ann nee Parkes but not to worried about this as my gran could niether read or write and daresay when I get his birth certificate will say Ann,as I recieved my aunties birth cert last week,(born 1871),James was 1873,lists his mums maiden name as Fox in process of getting it corrected,this is due by registra hearng incorrectly,LOL.
your a gem.
thanks a lot Lexi.
have a lovely christmas.
Joyce
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Hi again Lexi,
just a quick note,James died about 1930-31,this is due to him not being on census around that time,Mary Ann a widow.
thanks again,
Joyce
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I took a quick look at the Rhode Island directories database at Ancestry and found entries for James I Hickman (Mary Ann) including some dated from 1929 to 1931 in Provindence. In the Providence City, 1932 directory it had the following entry:
Hickman, Jas I (Mary Ann) died 4 June 1931
Hickman, Mary Ann wid Jas J h 5 Calderwood road
The initial for James in the entry for Mary Ann would appear to be a typographical error in the directory. That address is the same one that was listed for Jas I Hickman in the directory entries for other years that I looked at as well as being the same address they were at on the 1920 census.
I found James and Mary Ann on the 1930 census (there surname was mistranscribed as Heckman at Ancestry):
5 Calderwood Road, Providence City, Providence, RI - Ward 1, Enumeration District: 131, page 1A
James I. Hickman, head, 54 (there is an age listed that is crossed out and 54 is printed above it), age at first marriage 28, born England, parents born England, immigrated 1902, alien, caretaker for private family
Mary A Hickman, wife, 64, age at first marriage 35, born Irish Free State, parents born Irish Free State, immigrated 1902, alien
Jacquie
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Hi Jaquie,
Thank-you for that,even though his birth registration puts him as Isaac James,this is on birth certificate,the family bible has hm down as James Isaac,so in any official thing such as marriage,he has to use Isaac James.he was born 1873.
thanks for your kind help.
merry christmas
Joyce
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Hi again,I should say that James emigated in 1895,I think Mary ann emmigrated in 1902.
thanks again.
Joyce
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Found Mary Ann in 1880 American census,with her uncle also found father Patrick at home in Providence with two other daughters,Catherine born 1860 and Sarah 1858,says he,s married but wife is not there and can find Judith(wife) nowhere.
thanks again for everyones help on here.I should have said the marriage was 1902,for Mary Ann and Isaac (James)
Joyce
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Joyce, are you sure the Mary Ann on the 1880 census is yours? If she is, I don't think the Patrick you found is your Mary Ann's father. I found the Patrick Whitney you referred to on the 1870 census in Providence, Rhode Island in the household of John Whitney, bookseller. The Mary A listed with them is too old to be your Mary Ann and was born in Rhode Island, not Ireland:
John Whitney, 40, bookseller, Ireland
Patrick Whitney, 36, in screw factory, Ireland
Bridget Whitney, 34, Ireland
Mary A Whitney, 15, Rhode Island
Sarah J Whitney, 13, Rhode Island
Miles A Whitney, 11, Rhode Island
Catherine T Whitney, 10, Rhode Island
John J Whitney, 7, Rhode Island
Catherine Whitney, 65, Ireland
Also it appears that the Mary A Whitney who was the daughter of Patrick Whitney died 8 Jan 1880 according to the Rhode Island death index at Ancestry. There were also entries listed for Miles and Catherine as well. (Note: the death index list the parents as Patrick and Mary. The woman listed on the 1870 census is named Bridget however an entry on the 1860 census does have Patrick listed with a Mary. The children on the 1860 census match those on the 1870 census. Since relationships aren't listed, it is possible that the Bridget listed in 1870 is not the wife of Patrick or she and the 1860 Mary are the same person.)
From searches I did at Ancestry, I couldn't find a Judith Whitney born in Ireland listed on any US census.
There is a Mary Whitney born Apr 1867 in Ireland listed as a domestic servant in the household of Mabel Katherine Smith in Woonsocket, Rhode Island whose immigration year is listed as 1884. This is more in line with the dates given on the 1910 and 1920 census of 1884 and 1886 respectively.
There is an entry in the New York passenger list database at Ancestry for a Mary A Whitney, 21, servant, Ireland who arrived aboard the Circassia on 14 Sep 1886. Travelling with her was Irene Whitney, 19, servant, Ireland. The only other Mary Ann Whitney in the databases at Ancestry who arrived between 1883 and 1888 who was in the right age range was listed as being born in England and was travelling with a Patrick and Catherine Whitney who were not old enough to be Mary's parents (Mary was 20, Patrick and Catherine were 31).
Jacquie
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Hi Jaquie
the one I found in 1880 census,was born in 1863 like mine,aged 17 in 1880 census,born Ireland with her Uncle,surname Dobson,Patrick was in a seperate Household,listed as married,born Ireland as were his two daughters born 1858 and 1860 in Providence Catherine and Sarah,,wife not at home.
Joyce
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1880 census,
Mathew Dobson,
Catherine,Wife
Cecilia Daughter
Nellie Daughter
Mary Ann Whitney age 17 Niece,born Ireland.
Rhode Island,no,43 in IGI family search.
thanks for your help.
Joyce
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Hi Jaquie
the one I found in 1880 census,was born in 1863 like mine,aged 17 in 1880 census,born Ireland with her Uncle,surname Dobson,Patrick was in a seperate Household,listed as married,born Ireland as were his two daughters born 1858 and 1860 in Providence Catherine and Sarah,,wife not at home.
Joyce
Perhaps it will be better to see all the census entries I'm referring to together so you can see why I'm saying I don't think the Patrick on the 1880 census is the father of your Mary Ann.
1880 census - Providence, Rhode Island
Patrick Whitney, 47, works in screw factory, born Ireland, parents born Ireland
Catharine Whitney, 20, millener, born Rhode Island, parents born Ireland
Sarah Whitney, 22, keeping house, born Rhode Island, parents born Ireland
1870 census - Providence, Rhode Island
John Whitney, 40, bookseller, Ireland
Patrick Whitney, 36, in screw factory, Ireland
Bridget Whitney, 34, keeping house, Ireland
Mary A Whitney, 15, at school, Rhode Island
Sarah J Whitney, 13, at school, Rhode Island
Miles A Whitney, 11, at school, Rhode Island
Catherine T Whitney, 10, at school, Rhode Island
John J Whitney, 7, at school, Rhode Island
Catherine Whitney, 65, Ireland
1860 census - Providence, Rhode Island
Patrick Whitney, 22, labour, Ireland
Mary Whitney, 22, Ireland
Mary A Whitney, 8, Rhode Island
Sarah Whitney, 6, Rhode Island
Miles Whitney, 4, Rhode Island
Catherine Whitney, 2, Rhode Island
(Note: There are minor discrepancies in the ages between 1860 and 1870 however that is not unusual. Also there is no way to tell from the census entries alone whether Bridget on the 1860 census and Mary on the 1870 census are the same person or not.)
The household listed immediately before Patrick's family on the 1860 census is:
John Whitney, 25, bookseller, Ireland
Catharine Whitney, 55, Ireland
Patrick Whitney, 15, Ireland
John Whitney, 12, Ireland
From the Rhode Island Birth Index:
Mary A. Whitney, daughter of Patrick Whitney and Mary Whitney born 5 Sep 1853.
Sarah Whitney, daughter of Patrick Whitney and Mary Whitney born 2 May 1855.
Miles A. Whitney, son of Patrick Whitney and Mary Whitney born 3 Jan 1857.
Catherine T. Whitney, daughter of Patrick Whitney and Mary Whitney born 16 Dec 1858.
From the Rhode Island Death Index:
Miles A. Whitney, kin 1 Patrick Whitney, kin 2 Mary Whitney, died 21 Jul 1878 at age 21.
Mary A. Whitney, kin 1 Patrick Whitney, kin 2 Mary Whitney, died 8 Jan 1880 at age 26.
Sarah J. Whitney, kin 1 Patrick Whitney, kin 2 Mary Whitney, died 29 Aug 1908 at age 53.
I don't know whether the 1880 census entry for the Mary Ann with the Dobson family is yours or not. I was just trying to point out that the 1860 and 1870 census entries make it pretty clear that the Patrick on the 1880 census is a different Patrick than your Mary Ann's father.
Jacquie
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Hi Joyce,
To back to your original question for a minute. :)
After speaking with the chap at the Rhode Island Archives, he's certain you contacted the Rhode Island Vital Records office which cover the years after 1908 to present date. Before 1908 all vital records are held at the Rhode Island Archives. They are two separate entities.
Rhode Island State Archives
337 Westminister Street
Providence, Rhode Island 02903
401-222-2353
Certified Copy are $2
Photo Copies are 15 cents
Rhode Island General Laws stipulate that all records of birth and marriage are closed for 100 years and Death records are 50 years.
Birth and Marriages 1853-1908 are indexed
Deaths 1853-1958
Prior to 1853 on micro film only. Original manuscripts maintained at the local level.
Copied from the Vital Record Order Form
.................................................................................
Your James Issac Hickman did in fact pass away on 4 June 1931, as Jacquie found on Ancestry. Today I called the archives to inquiry about the missing record. It seems as though it was found in the clerk's film reader the other day, after I left. :-\ The clerk was nice enough to fax me a copy. I'll be scanning them on over tonight.
Appears that James was buried in Canton, Massachusetts. The cemetery name isn't listed on his cert. Maybe he's buried in a family plot in Massachusetts. Why else would they travel to another state to bury him?
I'll let you and Jacquie sort through your census results.
Lexi
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Hi Lexi,
I did contact Vital records and sent the $20 but they returned it to me,I can only think,Mary Ann must have had family in Massachusiss,as none of my dads family were there,thanks again to you and Jaquie for your help.
I see what you mean Jaquie and I agree with you as Lexi has said her mothers name was Judith,I do think it could be her with the Dobsons in the 1880 census though,do you think?.
thanks again to you both,for all your help.
here is a funny story from yesterday,as I keep finding family,cousins etc,my children say I cant keep up,not another cousin,anyhow my youngest daughter had a phone call yesterday,saying,Hi,this is your Uncle Patrick from Canada,she said i dont have a Uncle Patrick in Canada,he replied,Oh dear,Uncle Patrick must have the wrong number,then she rang me to double check,that I had,nt found another relation,LOL
take care both of you
and Thanks again.
Joyce
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Hi Joyce,
Certs in your e-mail box by now. :)
Jacquie mentioned
There is an entry in the New York passenger list database at Ancestry for a Mary A Whitney, 21, servant, Ireland who arrived aboard the Circassia on 14 Sep 1886.
Small world Joyce, my g gf sailed across the pond on the Circassia, arriving into New York on 8 May 1883.
Lexi
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I wouldn't accept the 1880 census entry as being your Mary Ann without proof that your Mary Ann was connected to either the Dobson family or to Catharine's family (since the census doesn't indicate who Mary Ann is directly related to). Since three census give Mary Ann Whitney's immigration year as being between 1884 and 1886 I would tend to think it isn't her.
I don't know anything about Irish research but I think your best bet of figuring things out is to try to find Mary Ann with Patrick and Judith Whitney in Ireland. I did a parent search of the IGI and there were only three extracted births for children born to parents by those names but none were named Mary Ann. The entries were:
- John Whitney, born 10 Jul 1867 in Longford, Ireland to Patt Whitney and Judy Bierne
- Michael Whitney, born 15 Feb 1870 in Longford, Ireland to Patrick Whitney and Judy Bierne
- Margaret Whitney, born 5 Nov 1871 in Longford, Ireland to Patrick Whitney and Judith Bierne
I don't know if those are your Mary Ann's parents or not but it is a starting point and it does seem easier to rule families out than rule them in.
Having said that though, it does seem like a lot of effort to find someone who isn't directly related to you. ;)
Jacquie
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Hi Jaquie,
thanks again,I know it seems weird because of the dates,LOL but Mary Ann was my Auntie,not great Aunt or anything,as my dad was nearly sixty when I was born,the third youngest of sixteen,so I am naturally curios to find out about my Aunts and uncles,my grandparents were born a hundred years before me in 1848,so it strange not knowing about my dads family,one of the main reasons for my search is to find out who my aunts and uncles were but also more important have gained many pictures along the way,such as a picture of my dad aged two in 1891 and my grandmother,so in my search,,found descendants who have photographs,they put them on the family tree I have,so I hope you understand why it is important for me to find out about Mary Ann,only ever met one Aunt,she was ninety at the time,died in 1963 aged 92,when older people have children,they dont think about them and what it is like for them not to know their family,I have an aunt who worked for Queen Victoria and here I am in nearly 2009,its like being in a time warp,my eventual aim,(whether I suceed or not is another matter)is to write a book about my search for family,found them in Australia and America,so I hope you understand more my reasons for searching.
kind regards
Joyce
http://www.tribalpages.com/tribes/j111048
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You don't have to explain your motives. You've certainly got an interesting and unusual family. Good luck.
Jacquie
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Hi Joyce,
I received your pm and resent the certs. My first e-mail didn't bounce and its in my sent box :-\ I see you didn't pick up my pm's here on Rootschat, you might want to read them?
Are you on dial up or DSL?
Lexi
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Hi Lexi,
the age dose seem right for Mary Ann,Uncle charles was 18 in 1891 census UK,then 22 when he went to USA in 1895,it is a small world is,nt it,we could both have ancestors in the same place,LOL,the photo at the side is my dad aged two in 1891 at uncle Williams Wedding,got this through Williams grandaughter I managed to trace.
if I can return the favour and help in any way,let me know.
kind regards
Joyce