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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: Fdgl65 on Saturday 13 December 08 16:04 GMT (UK)
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Hoping someone can help as I have gone round and round in circles with this one.
I'm looking for Elizabeth Hubbard born January/February 1911 either in Derbyshire (her family came from there) or Bingley in Yorkshire (grew up in Bingley). Sometimes a new pair of eyes can be help to spot the record.
On my grandmother's marriage certificate dated 2 February 1938 it states she is 27 years old and a spinster. There are no other names given for her. Was it common in 1938 for people not to give their full names? I am wondering if Elizabeth was a middle name and hence why I can't find her birth certificate. I really need it to confirm her mother's name because her father died in WW1 and it would confirm that I have the right war death record. Her father was John Hubbard.
Many thanks
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cant see owt for Keighly (Bingley's Regn Dist), but this might be a potential mistran (Derbyshire) ?
Births Mar 1910
HUBBAND Elizabeth Basford v7b p262
PS. Also did a middle name search (prefix name with an '*' in FreeBMD) - nowt !
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Hi
I've looked at the photocopy of the record and it looks like Hubbard to me :)
The phonetic surname search on Free BMD isn't very good :(
I might get a copy of this birth certificate, even if it is just to eliminate it.
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you can always make the GRO Order conditional on a known fact ....
:)
Added: Blimey, you think they would have been able to see it was Hubbard when its in the middle of a block of 'em ! :D
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I found the hubband one on freeBMD too, Newf beat me to it but I tried the Hub* as a search rather than the phonetic, it has been useful in the past.
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lol From now on I will use the wild card search.
@ Newf - sorry what do you mean "make the GRO Order conditional on a known fact"? - order as Hubbard instead of Hubband cos we know that's right?
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Good point - will the GRO ignore the spelling and just produce an Elizabeth with that Vol and Page from Basford ?
You have to order it with the given params - but I'd personally use HubbaRd and rely on the Vol & Page and some common sense, given its from an Index Page in the middle of a block of Hubbards ...
What I meant was that you can use their 'Reference Checking' feature to specify a fact like Father's name, Mother's, actual birthdate etc - if it doesnt match, they wont issue the Cert and you get a £4 refund ...
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You might want to correct the FreeBMD entry - they have a correction option as well as a Postem feature to highlight the error ...
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Ah thanks I will use that feature because I know her father's first name was John as it's on her marriage certificate and I am pretty certain her mother should be Sarah Jane.
Re: Free BMD - I've seen other mistakes but have been too frit to correct them lol
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only specify the minimum - I'd stick to just John, the Father - as the slightest deviation in spelling etc will mean they wont issue it ....
... at the end of the day, for the sake of a couple of quid, I'd just get it anyway as it seems pretty good ?
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I would be more tempted to order from the local register office and specify the parents name(s) as a checking point.
The GRO charge for a ref check whereas local offices don't and the GRO service levels with a ref check can vary tremendously.
They (GRO) have on occassions issued a cert with completely different names to those requested and other times retained a cert where the cert is quite likely to be correct but the name(s) for the ref check do not match exactly, eg Geo instead of George/ Jas instead of James/Chas instead of Charles.
You don't give the GRO reference with a local order (the index numbers are completely different)
Glen
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Thank you Glen, I will apply to the local registry office rather than GRO itself.
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Hi
Looking at freebmd it looks as though the whole listing of Hubbards has been transcribed as Hubband - I will report it, they are really good at changing errors.
Rosie :)
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LRO's have similar anomalies, the exactness you mention is why I said keep the checks to a minimum ... and I think the GRO dont charge for a Fathers name (auto check ?) - whereas the full Rerfn Checking involving multiple Refns is £3 a go ...
PS. Does 'KNI' mean what I think it does ? ;)
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Looking at freebmd it looks as though the whole listing of Hubbards has been transcribed as Hubband
yes, I mentioned that earlier - you'd have hoped that would have been picked up - good plan, better than a Postem I'd say :)
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Another point to consider is that the GRO index and certs are compiled at the end of a longwinded and sometimes tedious process which involves a lot of transcribing and paper shuffling, there are times when errors creep in and entries get lost (completely missed from the index and/or no cert is created).
I can say from personal experience that there are times when a local office have a record which the GRO say does not exist (my own birth is not in the GRO index for some reason and there is no cert available from them) but the local office do have the event recorded.
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Looking at freebmd it looks as though the whole listing of Hubbards has been transcribed as Hubband
yes, I mentioned that earlier - you'd have hoped that would have been picked up - good plan, better than a Postem I'd say :)
Sorry Newf didn't notice that bit in your post :-[
- keep having problems with my computer crashing this pm so not concentrating properly, I was too late to post it when I found it cos as usual you all beat me to it ;D. Anyway have notified freebmd about them all.
Rosie
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And just to confirm what you lovely people have found for me - I decided to look up John Arthur Hubbard, who I believe is Elizabeth's brother (b1900), and his birth is registered at Basford too! So that clinches it, it is her birth entry.
@ Glen - I very much appreciate how difficult is must be to transcribe records. After a day of looking at records myself I go word blind lol
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Rosie - it isnt a problem, I was just agreeing !
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Fdgl65 - if you want an insight into the horrors of the quarterly returns of LROs to the GRO et al - try and get a book called 'A comedy of Errors' - its unbelievable how bad it was !
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What part of derbyshire was Eliabeth -or her brother born in ?
Basford reg district covers part of derbys/part of Notts
If you decide to ring Basford reg office it may be of assistance if you can tell them whhere you think the birth took place - it assists them in looking for sub districts.
Some of the basford reg are at Ilkeston
Suz
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If I have the correct John Arthur Hubbard (possibly Elizabeth's brother)
1901 census ref RG13 3147 110 34
he is age 7mths - p.o.b. transcribed as L.Mell
his actual p.o.b. should be langley Mill -which is in Ilkeston sub district -on Notts/Derbys border - heanor is a mile "up the hill"
They are living in heanor Derbys (Church St - many of my ancestors lived on Church St)
Suz
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Yep Suz you are right. The record isn't very well described so I was presuming he was born in Heanor in Derbyshire rather than in Nottinghamshire.
So am I right in applying to Basford for Elizabeth's birth certificate?
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Just to put my two penn'orth in! I've sent in a correction to FreeBMD for the whole batch of Hubband. Have to admit the scan used by the transcriber is pretty horrific, and Hubband would fit into the sequence. As a transcriber for FreeBMD myself, it is sometimes very hard to determine what is printed, but we are told to type what we see!! If I have a problem, I do sometimes check with Ancestry as very often their scan is better. But you gets what you pay for, and we all do the FreeBMD transcriptions for nowt!! And sometimes we get it wrong, but at least with FreeBMD everyone has the opportunity to put it right, unlike some of the pay sites.
BumbleB
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Too true. The 1841 censuses are horrendous to read sometimes.
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I've sent in a correction to FreeBMD for the whole batch of Hubband. Have to admit the scan used by the transcriber is pretty horrific, and Hubband would fit into the sequence.
BumbleB
Rosie already submitted a correction !
Cant agree however that the scan was that bad, and the whole block was unlikely to be such an unusual name?
I thought you guys cross-checked or had a 2nd check of things ?
Take my hat off to you for doing it tho ... I tried to help some years back with a local site and PRs, went cross-eyed !
:)
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Hi Newf: Not sure that I agree with you wholeheartedly, but it is sometimes difficult. I assume that you looked at the FreeBMD scan and not the Ancestry, which is a completely different kettle of fish! In a previous life I was a secretary so have a little background in deciphering handwriting and typescript etc. And if you do do transcriptions, especially in the 20th century, then more and more weird and wonderful surnames occur, as well as forenames. There are a lot of surnames I just don't recognise (and I'm not just talking about European surnames). Anyway, as long as the correction was entered, it doesn't really matter, and I know that this one will be accepted. And yes, each entry is double-entered, as you so rightly state, so there is cross-checking as a matter of course, although it all takes time. In my own tree I've got an entry shown as Aichbell instead of Archbell, but I can't do anything about it as that is how it occurs in the index, and there is no doubt about it. You have to provide evidence of a "printed" version, not just a "family history" justification in order to get a correction.
BumbleB
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yes, FreeBMD :)
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Hi Fgdl65,
Yes, you are correct in applying for a birth reg in Basford district
Heanor and langley Mill come within Basford reg district
A lot of the present day Hubbards in Heanor area originate from melton Mowbray area-but I don't think they link up to yours
But I noticed John Hubbard was an iron Turner - when you receive the birth cert it would be interesting to hear the birth address. There aren't many streets/roads in langley mill that I do not know the location of
I have done some research on G R Turners(wagon makers)of langley Mill and Bridge St -which is an area where many of the iron/steel workers who worked for that company lived.
Suz
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Just had a look for father John in earlier census
1901 he is described as born New Normington Derby - I think this should be New Normanton Derby -and would come within (probably) Derby reg district.
1881 he was living with his family at Dean St Langley Mill - Dean St runs parrallell to bridge St -and most of the occupants of those houses worked either as coal miners, at the local flour mill or at G R Turners!!
Suz
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John is described by the family as being a coal miner but on most censuses he is an Iron Turner. He is also described as a Coal Hewer on my gran's marriage certificate :)
I will have to send off for my gran's birth certificate because I have just found out that my great grandfather isn't on the local Roll of Honour list which is unexpected :(
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Update:
I received my grandmother's birth certificate this morning - thanks to everyone who helped me track it down. It is the correct certificate and confirms that I have the right John Hubbard :)
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Excellent, pleased to have helped :)