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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: An65 on Thursday 11 December 08 18:18 GMT (UK)
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At long last thanks to the latest issue of Romany Roots (the RTFHS Magazine) the question marks surrounding these three are resolved. Its so blindingly obvious we should have realised!!
Bethania Smith married William Gray and had a son William in 1822 as we know. She then married someone who was James Gray aka Mobbs - only he was actually, James Mobbs. Bethania and the entire family just used the alias Gray (her previous married name).
No wonder we couldnt find a trace of James Gray, he didnt exist!.
James Mobbs and Bethiah Smith were apparently married in 1816 (I know not where).
Of course William Gray then married her sister, Tabitha, and their son Sidney married one Violet Smith before he married Edingirl Smith aka Mary Ann.
Now I found a very interesting baptism of a Violet Smith in 1826 at Ruskington Lincs, the daughter of Rosetta Smith, a single travelling woman. Rosetta Smith later appears on the census with Sidney Gray.
According to the same source (Romany Roots mag) and in the same article, there is mention of Francis Brown and his wife Rosetta Smith. Same woman? I think so....
Francis Brown and Rosetta Smith had: Adilarania (Dillerany) c.1843 Harmston Lincs, Maria c.1845 Ingham Lin, Harriet c.1836 Blyborough Lin, William c.1849 Tealby Lin and under the Smith surname, they also had Christopher Smith c.1834 Fulbeck Lin.
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Regarding James Mobbs and Bethiah Smith were apparently married in 1816 (I know not where).
Looking through some of my notes they were married 21st November 1815 in South Luffenham Rutland
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Thank you :)
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I'm looking for James Gray and Bethany who's children were eliace Gray and twins cornelious and righteous is this the same family ? :)
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At long last thanks to the latest issue of Romany Roots (the RTFHS Magazine) the question marks surrounding these three are resolved. Its so blindingly obvious we should have realised!!
Bethania Smith married William Gray and had a son William in 1822 as we know. She then married someone who was James Gray aka Mobbs - only he was actually, James Mobbs. Bethania and the entire family just used the alias Gray (her previous married name).
No wonder we couldnt find a trace of James Gray, he didnt exist!.
James Mobbs and Bethiah Smith were apparently married in 1816 (I know not where).
How come the dates show she married James mobbs before William Gray ?
Of course William Gray then married her sister, Tabitha, and their son Sidney married one Violet Smith before he married Edingirl Smith aka Mary Ann.
Now I found a very interesting baptism of a Violet Smith in 1826 at Ruskington Lincs, the daughter of Rosetta Smith, a single travelling woman. Rosetta Smith later appears on the census with Sidney Gray.
According to the same source (Romany Roots mag) and in the same article, there is mention of Francis Brown and his wife Rosetta Smith. Same woman? I think so....
Francis Brown and Rosetta Smith had: Adilarania (Dillerany) c.1843 Harmston Lincs, Maria c.1845 Ingham Lin, Harriet c.1836 Blyborough Lin, William c.1849 Tealby Lin and under the Smith surname, they also had Christopher Smith c.1834 Fulbeck Lin.
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I think this is the family I'm looking for but very confused how can bethania marry William Gray in 1822 her first husband then marry James aka mobbs in 1815 / 1816 ? And have a son to William born in 1822 7 or 8 years after she married James ?
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I think this is the family I'm looking for but very confused how can bethania marry William Gray in 1822 her first husband then marry James aka mobbs in 1815 / 1816 ? And have a son to William born in 1822 7 or 8 years after she married James ?
Firstly, I've not found proof of an official marriage between William Gray and Bethania Smith, when I said "married" I meant in Romany liaison terms - lots of Romanies were never "legally" married in those days. Also, it wasn't uncommon for them to have more than one partner at the same time... So that solves that question.
Williams "usual" wife was Bethanias sister, Tabitha Smith.
Bethania seems to have James Mobbs as her "usual" partner.
With him she had: Eldri/Eldorai Gray who married Moses Smith,
Joshua who married Harriet,
Righteous who married Sage/Sagey Heron,
Cornelius, (apparently unmarried)
Francis who married Selina
Letitica,
and Moses who married Silvia Smith.
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William Grays usual wife was, as stated, Tabitha Smith. With her he had:
Hannah, married Josiah Smith,
Sidney , married Violet Smith and Mary Ann/Edingirl Smith,
Eldereye,
Charlotte,
Messiah,
Kalias
Alexander
Mary
Josiah
Haradine
And Carli/Kali who married Eve Boswell.
With Bethania he had:
William who married Salone Ellen "Loomey" Boiling
Bethania who married William Boswell
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You also mention Elias Gray - he was not from this line (I know the the old trees and tales said he was.)
The confusion is because Sage and Amelia were sisters - but Righteous Cornelius and Elias were not brothers.
he was actually a son of Elias Gray and Sophia Smith.
This Elias was the son of Israel Gray and Maria Gray.
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A researcher seems to think eliace was the son of grandson of William Gray and Bethany William Gray jr son to Salome boyling ?
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A researcher seems to think eliace was the son of grandson of William Gray and Bethany William Gray jr son to Salome boyling ?
Yes, it had me until I found Elias baptism. He was s/o Elias & Sophia.
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Really so was he any relation to William Gray ? And Bethany James mobbs or am I on a completely different line ?
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Really so was he any relation to William Gray ? And Bethany James mobbs or am I on a completely different line ?
Well in theory all lines converge in East Anglia so they are probably all related but I haven't found a def link yet.
Elias Gray appears on census repeatedly stating he was born circa 1843/4 Abbotts Ripton.
Golias Gray was bapt 3.1.1843 at Abbotts Ripton s/o Elias & Sophia Gipsey.
Before you think the names wrong its worth noting that Elias Boss s/o Riley Boss was bapt at Sudbourne in 1826 as Golias, so the names seem interchangeable.
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Ok so I was looking at a totally wrong family ! This is very confusing lol
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Ok so I was looking at a totally wrong family ! This is very confusing lol
You're not the first to find it so and won't be the last either!
Are you descended from this Elias Gray? I ask because -
According to Eric Trudgill there was an Elias born to William Gray in 1843 at Claxby Pluckacre Lincs. I haven't seen that baptism I'm afraid but he is a very well respected gypsy genealogist.
Have a read: http://www.gypsygenealogy.com/showarticle.php?article_id=70
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Yes eliace Gray and Amelia hurn were my great great grandparents Amelia was pretty easy to find her family but eliace is another matter lol
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Yes eliace Gray and Amelia hurn were my great great grandparents Amelia was pretty easy to find her family but eliace is another matter lol
yes I just looked at the arrival but it says he married a Sarah smith not Amelia hurn ?
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Yes eliace Gray and Amelia hurn were my great great grandparents Amelia was pretty easy to find her family but eliace is another matter lol
yes I just looked at the arrival but it says he married a Sarah smith not Amelia hurn ?
now eliace and Amelia had a son Nepolian Gray who married a Sarah smith my great granny
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Yes eliace Gray and Amelia hurn were my great great grandparents Amelia was pretty easy to find her family but eliace is another matter lol
yes I just looked at the arrival but it says he married a Sarah smith not Amelia hurn ?
now eliace and Amelia had a son Nepolian Gray who married a Sarah smith my great granny
Your Elias is the one who is s/o Elias & Sophia, not the one who belongs with Righteous and Cornelious.
This Elias was married to Sophia Smith. He was bapt 1825 Weston Colville Cam s/o Israel Gray and Maria Gray - I say it that way because they were both Grays.